Is it time that we took a closer look at UKIP?

First topic message reminder :

The UKIP vote in Eastleigh rose from 3.6% in 2010 to 27.8% in the by-election on Thursday. It may have been because the party is mopping up the mid-term protest votes which traditionally went to the Liberal Democrats before they climbed into bed with the devil in May 2010. It may be because many people – wrongly - feel that the three main parties in Westminster are “all the same”, a feeling which the Tories have helped to create by transferring so much real power from democratic accountability to unelected and unaccountable corporations as they privatise everything on which they can lay their grubby hands. What I don’t believe is that this bubble of support for UKIP is because of the party’s reactionary, right-wing policies, which aim to take us back to the 1950s.

The one policy which everyone associates with UKIP is withdrawal from the EU. UKIP has claimed that by leaving the EU, the UK would save over £45 million a day plus £60 billion a year, conveniently ignoring any EU rebates and regional grants. I’m not sure where it gets those figures from, since the Treasury says that the UK paid £8.9 billion into EU budget in 2010/11 (out of £706 billion of public spending). The European Commission puts the UK's net contribution at £5.85 billion.

The EU is the UK's main trading partner, accounting for 52% of our total trade in goods and services; if Britain went for a clean break from the EU, its exports would be subject to EU export tariffs. Millions of jobs could be lost as global manufacturers move to low-cost countries within the EU, and Britain's foreign-owned car industry might well shift into the EU. However, withdrawal from the EU was the issue which UKIP exploited and which put it on the political map. With his half-baked promise of a referendum at some point in the future, the idiotic Cameron has increased UKIP’s credibility by showing that he’s afraid of it.

Cameron also said that UKIP is “full of fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists", and perhaps on that last point he could now be right. The Eastleigh by-election showed that UKIP is appealing to racists, causing one person on Twitter to refer to it as “the BNP for the Notting Hill set”. UKIP may be more subtle than the BNP, but it wants to freeze immigration, pandering to the Alf Garnetts who see all foreigners as problems, and has even thrown in the contentious claim that “multiculturalism has split our society”.

In December 2011, the UK had 88,179 people in prison, more per head of the population than any other country in Europe, yet UKIP wants to double the number of prison places. UKIP says that the £2 billion cost of building new prisons is negligible compared to the cost of crime, but it hasn’t factored in the cost of keeping prisoners in jail, which amounts to at least £40,000 a year for each of them. Yet UKIP would refuse to accept European Arrest Warrants, which could well mean delays for the UK in extraditing suspects from other European countries.

The NHS would be no safer with UKIP than it’s been with the Tories, since the party believes that “other models are worth considering to see whether lessons can be learned from abroad”. On education, UKIP wants to bring back grammar schools, so that we can once again tell about 80% of eleven-year-olds that they’re failures, while at the same time giving parents education vouchers, which would be a way of subsidising private school fees.

The cornerstone of UKIP’s tax policies is to roll the employee national insurance and basic rate income tax into a flat rate of income tax of 31%. There would be no higher rate tax, since UKIP perpetuates the Tory lie that the 50% income tax rate cost the economy money; it hasn’t, it has brought in £2.7 billion a year. UKIP’s policy would be a massive tax cut for the rich, far bigger than the one that’s being introduced by the Tories in April. Even greater inequality would be created by abolishing national insurance for employers.

UKIP policies, like so many Tory ones, amount to an attack on our rights. UKIP would put an end to most legislation regarding matters such as weekly working hours, holidays, overtime, redundancy and sick pay, while leaving it up to each employer to decide whether to offer parental leave. It says it would also scrap most ‘equality and discrimination’ legislation.

If you need any more reasons not to vote for UKIP, it denies climate change and would make increased defence spending “a clear priority, even in these difficult times”. It opposes equal marriage, would hold a referendum in each county on ending the hunting ban and would allow smoking in allocated rooms in public houses, clubs and hotels. It’s no wonder that UKIP has been likened to “the political wing of a Home Counties golf club”.

You may not like the EU, and you may think that after 38 years it’s time to hold another referendum on our membership. However, before you vote for a party that makes that its flagship policy, look a little more closely at what else you would be voting for at the same time.

Sources used:-

http://www.ukip.org/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450

bobby wrote:I am certain you have heard ow, incest is relatively boring  

It seems to hinge upon one's access to sheep, bobby.

oftenwrong wrote:

bobby wrote:I am certain you have heard ow, incest is relatively boring  

It seems to hinge upon one's access to sheep, bobby.

I have always said that Farage & Ukip are no differnt to the Tory party, the longer this goes on the more I am proven right you can not get a ciggy paper between Ukip & Tories when it comes to there policies and more than likely everything else.

Scraping the bottom of the barrel:-
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Blsp9eJIgAEUI04.jpg

Maybe this sums up UKIP:-
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BlhpXMLCQAA6pvg.jpg

YOU HAVE GOT FARAGES & UKIPS NUMBER IVAN

Farage's USP is to be "not the Tory Party", so Labour may be forced to adopt a different platform. Maybe even a promise of "Fair government"?

It can only be a matter of time before they are on the backs of the Jews...historically always such a convenient target...

 

This is a win or bust strategy for UKIP, in my view - either they will mobilise all the little englanders and haters, and that will be enough to get them some real political power, or they will sicken everyone so much that they will end up worse off then the Lib Dems

I agree boatlady or Ukip could end up like the BNP with there leader being made bankrupt and that would be a laugh because Farage was a B(W)anker before he entered political scene.

I would like to see Farage lose his seat in the EU elections surely the people of Kent have got his number by now.

Redflag said: " I would like to see Farage lose his seat in the EU elections surely the people of Kent have got his number by now"

If only Red, unfortunately many of the people of Kent get to see very many immigrants illegal or otherwise, its all to do with geography. Folkstone and Dover are the two major ports for the immigrants to enter by. You only need to go to towns like Ashford which is on the M20 and 15 miles and 22 miles respectively from both ports.
You can go to Ashford any day of the week and will be hard pressed not to hear Eastern European language or accent spoken. There are many places in Kent where immigration is deemed a major problem, so no I personally don't think the evil git Farage's seat is at risk.

Farage is certain to get re-elected to the EU Parliament.   
 
The FPTP voting system is not used for EU elections, and instead there is a regional list system. For example, in the south east, nine of our 73 MEPs will be elected, but we get just one vote each – for a party. Each party will have its list of up to nine candidates, ranked in order. If the party gets around a third of the votes, its first three names will become MEPs. Farage is certain to be number one on the UKIP list, and in the EU election, UKIP will, sadly, have no problem getting more than one-ninth of the votes.
 
I’m no fan of FPTP, but it was under this system that scum like Nick Griffin of the BNP got into the EU Parliament last time. And it’s the reason why UKIP has had MEPs since 1999, even though it’s never managed to get a single MP elected to Westminster.

The system for election of MEPs doesn't fall readily into any category headed "Will of The People", does it?
 
Most people couldn't even tell you what candidates will be on the ballot paper for an election which takes place in less than a month.

This picture was taken in 1983 and UKIP has tried to get it banned. Do you recognise anyone in it??   
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bl5UkOHIYAA_wGq.jpg

Looks like an incorrigible attention-seeker. Harry Enfield?

He is as much as an A**E Hole in 1983 as he is in 2014 Ivan, he is wearing that old Tory badge "BRASS NECK" I just wonder when normal  people will wake up to him and his party I can understand why he attracts disgruntled Tory voters "Birds of a Feather" ect.
 
I would like to know what the other EU countries think of his rantings when he manages to attend debates in the EU Parliament.

bobby wrote:Unfortunately many of the people of Kent get to see very many immigrants illegal or otherwise, its all to do with geography.  Folkstone and Dover are the two major ports for the immigrants to enter by. You only need to go to towns like Ashford which is on the M20 and 15 miles and 22 miles respectively from both ports.
You can go to Ashford any day of the week and will be hard pressed not to hear Eastern European language or accent spoken. There are many places in Kent where immigration is deemed a major problem, so no I personally don't think the evil git Farage's seat is at risk.[/color]

Bobby I agree with what you have said since having a holiday in Kent a few years ago our tour operator warned us to keep our purses out of sight and in a safe place, but do the people of Kent not know the only way Farage will be able to get them out of the EU is if he gets a MAJORITY gov't in Westminister, at the moment he has not not got one MP in the HOC. 

 " I can see what you're doing behind my back, sonny. If you're not careful you'll end up leading some weird group of political nonentities when you grow up..."

Why is no one hastening UKIP's demise?
 
Extracts from an article by Hugh Muir:-
 
"Prior to Nick Clegg's championing of Europe in his recent debates with Farage, no leader had sought to expose the vacuity of Farage's easy answers to the complex questions of globalisation and migration. Clegg was judged to have lost those debates, but that said more about the banal level at which this debate is conducted than anything else. Years of cross-party and media failure to properly explain our lives in a European and global context ensured the debate could not rise above the banal. Banal is where UKIP feels most comfortable.

Which other party seeking mainstream votes would be allowed to simply laugh off association with extreme right-wingers, racists and anti-Semites? Those with whom Farage beds down in Europe. Which other party would be able to evade real responsibility for its representatives? Consider the poster campaign, with its central claim – that 26 million Europeans actively seek jobs in Britain – rooted in falsehood. Without the exemption from the advertising code of conduct that is enjoyed by political adverts, the party would have been forced to withdraw it

There will come a time, one calmer than this, when we look back at UKIP and wonder how it was allowed to happen. That assumes that the storm will abate, and I believe that to be true. Nigel Farage and his merry band will do well in the European elections. The juggernaut will roll on for a while. But it is not well stocked with diesel."
 
For the whole article:-
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/25/ukip-unravel-political-andre-lampitt

Nigel Farage is a phoney. Scrutinise him and he'll crumble
 
Part of an article by Nick Cohen:-
 
Allow me to sketch you a portrait of a political leader. Even by the lax standards of the powerful, he is England's greatest living hypocrite. He courts popularity by warning that tens of millions from the dole queues of Europe are coming to take British jobs, while employing his German wife as his secretary. He denounces "the political class" for living like princes at the taxpayers' expense while pocketing every taxpayer-funded allowance he can claim for himself, his wife and his colleagues.

He says he represents "ordinary people". But he is a public school-educated former banker, whose policies will help him and his kind. He claims he is the voice of "common sense", while allying with every variety of gay-hater, conspiracy crackpot, racist, chauvinist and pillock. The only sense he and his followers have in common is a fear of anyone who is not like them.

You might expect that Britain's famously aggressive media would tear into his multiple deceits. Yet so tame has their treatment of Nigel Farage been, so indulgent and complicit, viewers were surprised when the BBC's political editor found the courage to raise a timorous voice and ask him why he was employing his German wife rather than giving a British job to a British worker. Broadcasters are ferocious when they tackle mainstream politicians, but are as eager to please as wet-tongued labradors when they meet UKIP.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/26/nigel-farage-phoney-scrutinise-him-ukip?

IVAN do the people that vote Ukip not realise the only way Farage will get them out of the EU is by having a majority gov't in Westminister, voting him back into the EU Parliament only allows him to keep going on the GRAVY TRAIN with salaries and allowances (Farages name for expenses)
 
I feel sorry for the folk that think they are getting something new on the political scene with Ukip, if they only took off there rose tinted specs and scratched beneath the surface they would find "Another Tory Party Mark 11".

Are you fit to be British? Take the UKIP test
 
From an article by Nick Cohen:-
 
"UKIP is inspired by hatred. The sight of their fellow citizens drives UKIP supporters into foaming rages or indeed to France or Spain, not arguments about the Common Agricultural Policy. Perhaps you are one of the hated. To find out, ask yourself:-

Are you black?

Are you Jewish?

Are you Muslim?

Are you Greek – that’s right, Greek – or Turkish come to that?

Are you the child of refugees?

Are you a woman?

Are you gay?

Are you a patriot?

Are you a member of UKIP? You might think you would be safe then. But UKIP is Nigel Farage’s personality cult. He allows no competition and has no internal rivals who might threaten his pre-eminence.

Every time there is a scandal, UKIP’s opponents and the media let Farage get away with saying that the racist, sexist or gay-hating UKIP candidate is a rotten apple he will throw away. But the scandals are so frequent you have to conclude that it is not the rotten apple that needs throwing out but the whole stinking barrel."
 
More details in the complete article here:-
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/nick-cohen/2014/04/are-you-fit-to-be-british-take-the-ukip-test/

All we can hope for Ivan is that the people of the UK wake up and see what is right under there noses in regards to Farage and Ukip, from what I am reading on twitter that seems to be happening at the EU elections should give us a better picture of how the people of the UK are being folled by Farage and his bunch of SPIVS and shamed ex-Tory Ministers.  

UKIP and the SNP are both resonating with the British voters, because neither is a Government party with all the baggage which that entails.

Paul Nuttall is the deputy leader of UKIP. He thinks the NHS is "costly, inefficient and stuffed with bureaucrats" and believes that "the very existence of the NHS stifles competition". He has congratulated the Tory-dominated government for what it has done to our health service:-
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BmX6Y3aCAAAw9K_.png

Talking last night to some local voters - one man said some very interesting things.
He is a lifetime Tory voter, and voted Tory in the last General Election.
This time, he thinks he may vote UKIP - reason? - he's sick of professional politicians, who have never done a job outside politics - he doesn't think they can represent the interests of ordinary people; whereas UKIP as branded by the odious Farage seems to him to have a fresher, more down-to-earth approach. The guy didn't seem to have much of a view about immigration, or any racist ideas - just has got disillusioned with politicians.
You can sort of see how that happens - although in reality UKIP are just more extreme Tories, not being in parliament makes them seem a bit more 'edgy' and 'street', and importantly, accessible - which has to be appealing if people think politicians have stopped listening.
It seems to me that those people who are dissatisfied with the way politics is run today need to get more involved in political activism, even if only on a very small scale - getting to know their politicians and the issues and keeping the politicians honest by challenging them personally.
Labour candidates and Labour parliamentarians can make this happen by getting out and talking to people one-to-one and being seen to be involved personally in the communities they seek to represent- taking on a leadership role within those communities.
The lack of positive media coverage could end up being a positive if candidates become personally known within their constituencies - isn't that the way we used to 'do' politics?

Great post boatlady the gentleman you where talking too does he read or can he listen ? reason for my question is does he know what Farage or any of his bunch SICKOs did before going into politics. Farage is ex-City-banker the Hamiltons are shamed ex-Tory ministers there will also be disgruntled Tories who because they did not get selected to stand as a Tory councillor or MP left the Tory party.

I can understand ex-Tory voters voting for Ukip but will never understand a Labour or Fib-Dem voter voting for a more EXTREME RIGHT WING PARTY than the Tories, even though they try and dress themselves up as the party for the man on the street just because Farage drinks likes a fish and follows this up with a chain smoking. I justhope the people ofthe UK wake up or take there rose tinted specs off before its too late and we have a coalition of Tory/Ukip gov't.

For some people, the novelty is sufficient. Voter boredom in 2010 is what got us into this mess in the first place.

" Voter boredom..."

Yeah - why can't they all be sensible like us, eh?

The key will be whether the Phoney Farage makes dents of significance in the Labour vote as well as that of the Tories.  If he does, it will tell us that Miliband didn't have the strategies or credibility to keep the Big Bad Wolf from the door...

UKIP understands people will always want someone to blame
 
Extracts from an article by Laurie Penny:-
 
Nobody expects integrity or decency from Farage and they duly get neither. What they get, and what the British press has furnished with endless primetime platforms and wall-to-voting-booth-coverage, is a genuinely talented television personality who seems to be honest about his own hypocrisies. When journalists finally put the expenses question to him, he confirmed that he saw no problem with ripping Europe off.

Farage comes across as a friendly spiv; in fact, he is a thug. He is leading the sort of party that has no qualms about exploiting racial prejudice and hatred of foreigners in order to strengthen its base. UKIP gets away with this and more because it is the only vehicle representing public rage and contempt for the what Farage calls “career politicians and their friends in business”, as if he is not one of them. People know in their hearts that UKIP is a party of prejudice, but they just don’t care enough to change their vote.

George Orwell once famously wrote that the reason fascists would never gain a toehold in Britain was that they would be laughed at. Unfortunately, he was wrong. If real far-right hegemony arrives in Britain, this is what it will look like. It will look ridiculous. It will set its unserious self against the serious politicians everyone loathes, and people will giggle it all the way into Downing Street, accompanied not by a Wagnerian overture but a farting trombone. The reason nobody can stop UKIP is that nobody can offer a credible alternative that articulates public rage without playing on popular hatred.
 
For the whole article:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/04/ukip-understands-people-will-always-want-someone-blame

A week is a long time in Politics. (Harold Wilson)

The weakness of Farage's platform was exposed this week when he had to decide quickly whether to grab the opportunity presented by a by-election in Newark. He couldn't afford to take it.

'nuff said!

I suppose the fact that he seems to be the only UKIP politician with more than 2 brain cells is a bit of a weakness

Farage is the chap we have all seen at our places of work: the one who constantly challenges and criticises the hierarchy but, who, were he placed in a position of real responsibility, would need a sudden change of trousers...

It’s hard to believe now, but for the first few months after poor old Gordon Brown became PM in June 2007 he was quite popular. That made him consider calling a general election – little more than two years after the previous one – and he allowed speculation to build that he would go to the polls on 25 October of that year. He didn’t go through with it, was accused of being a ‘bottler’ and never recovered his popularity (but that was partly due to the global credit crunch which engulfed us soon afterwards).
 
Earlier this week, Farage encouraged speculation that he would fight the Newark by-election, even saying that if he won the seat Cameron would have to resign. Then he announced that he wouldn’t be standing. He said that he’d had twelve hours to think about it, yet in reality he’d had much longer. Tory MP Patrick Mercer had said that if he was suspended from the House of Commons for his ‘cash-for-questions’ antics, he would resign his seat. Farage had had plenty of time to consider what he might do if a by-election occurred.
 
Of course Farage made the right call. It was very unlikely that he would be able to overturn a Tory majority of over 16,000, and as he himself said, that would “burst the bubble”. (Quite revealing that he should view UKIP’s progress as something which could so easily evaporate.) Even if Farage had won the seat, there’s a good chance that the Tories would have regained it at next year’s general election.
 
The rules have changed since Ian Paisley was allowed to be an MP, an MEP and a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly. If Farage had won the Newark by-election, he’d have had to resign his seat in Brussels within weeks – maybe even days – of getting re-elected. Furthermore, if Farage had suddenly stood for a seat in Nottinghamshire, when he has no connections with the area (he comes from Kent), he would probably have been labelled a ‘carpetbagger’. Yes, Farage made the right decision not to stand. His mistake was in encouraging speculation that he might do so.

".... Farage made the right decision not to stand. His mistake was in encouraging speculation that he might do so."

Very likely, but he must have enjoyed a few hours of knowing that David Cameron's face would be the colour of hunting pink.

Ivan wrote:Sources used:-

http://www.ukip.org/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20448450

 
Ivan I am glad you have put that link up so that those people that are tempted to vote Ukip can see exactly what an who they would be voting for, to be honest you can not get a ciggy paper between the Ukip and Tory policies so I hope people take their time to check out the Ukip Manifesto they are in for a shock.