Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

First topic message reminder :

Here is a news item from North Yorkshire which never made it onto the national headlines

A York-based practice has written to its patients offering them a range of minor treatments privately, claiming they are not funded by the local NHS.

Doctors' leaders said this could be the start of a worrying trend due to the squeeze on finances and NHS overhaul.

The letter, seen by the BBC, said local health chiefs had stopped funding a range of services, but added they could still have them done privately at a number of clinics, including one owned by the practice.

These included removing skin tags from £56.30 to treating benign tumours for £243.20.

Dr Richard Vautrey, of the British Medical Association, added: "The dire finances of many trusts means that many more NHS treatments are likely to become unavailable in the future".

Ivan : Lies and smears are the stock in trade of the Tory . But what else do they have with which to trade? The prospect of a few facts must be as welcome to them as a pork sausage is to a rabbi ...

Ivan wrote:Cameron’s top ten lies about the NHS

1. “We will stop the top-down reorganisation of the NHS.” The Tories are pushing through the biggest top-down reorganisation of the NHS in its history.

2. “We will increase health spending every year.” A Nuffield Trust study shows "a real terms reduction of 0.5% over the next four years”.

3. “We’ll ensure waiting times are kept low.” Patients waiting longer than Labour’s 18-week guarantee are up by 34%.

4. “We will save the maternity and A&E units at Chase Farm Hospital, London.” Lansley announced the units would be downgraded last November.

5. Cameron claimed that Royal Colleges of General Practitioners, Physicians and Nursing “all supported” his health reforms. All three oppose the reforms.

6. “We will increase the number of midwives by 3,000”. The government has cut the training places for nurses and midwives.

7. “We will not endanger universal coverage — we will make sure it remains a National Health Service.” The NHS has already begun breaking up into local GP commissioning groups.

8. “Reforms are needed as there were 5,000-10,000 needless cancer deaths a year compared to other EU countries.” The NHS has helped achieve the biggest drop in cancer deaths among 10 leading countries.

9. “We are not reorganising the bureaucracy of the NHS, we are abolishing bureaucracy.” The NHS will be saddled with more bureaucracy, with hundreds of new bodies set up to replace sacked managers.

10. “The government is fully behind the Health Bill.” Three Tory Cabinet members have come out against it.

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Labour lies and broken NHS promises:

NHS patients mixed sex indignity continues on hospital wards
Fri, Jan 9, 2009- Men and women in hospital are still being treated on mixed-sex wards with little or no segregation, despite government promises to improve privacy for patients.

Labour has broken mixed sex wards promise admits Health Secretary Alan Johnson
Wed, Jan 28, 2009- Labour has failed to end mixed sex NHS hospital wards despite promising to do so for 12 years, the Health Secretary Alan Johnson has admitted.

Labour closing maternity increasing, say Conservatives
Tue, Feb 17, 2009- Labour closes maternity services increasing, with nearly 50 per cent of hospital trusts having to close to maternity admissions at least once in 2008.

Labour’s NHS targets may have led to 1,200 deaths in Mid-Staffordshire
Wed, Mar 18, 2008- NHS managers have been accused of putting targets and cost-cutting ahead of patients as a report found up to 1,200 people may have died needlessly due to “appalling standards of care” at a single hospital.

Hospital was upgraded in spite of deaths
Mon, Mar 23, 2009- A Staffordshire hospital was granted flagship status despite providing such “appalling” emergency care that “there is no doubt that patients will have suffered and some of them will have died”, the health service’s quality watchdog said last week.

Poll reveals public distrust of NHS governance
Tue, 31 Mar, 2009- As Health Direct posts that the majority of British voters want an independent inquiry into the supervision of NHS hospitals today- over the rest of the week we will examine the chronic state of paperpushing, targets fixation and waste under labour’s maladministration.

Labour stops asking the uncomfortable question- is your hospital OK?
Tue, 14 Apr, 2009- National Health Service staff are no longer being asked whether they would be happy to be treated in their own hospitals, because the answers don’t match labour’s spin.

Patients with suspected cancer forced to wait so NHS targets can be hit
Wed, Jun 24, 2009- Patients rushed to hospital with suspected cancer are having their treatment delayed so that managers can meet labour Government targets, an NHS investigation has found

NHS dental crisis- can the rot be stopped?
Thu, 8 Oct 2009- New figures reveal over 40 per cent of the population has no NHS dentist. Can a new review finally fix the system once and for all?

False waiting time figures probed
Wed, 21 Oct 2009- A hospital has apologised and launched an inquiry after hundreds of patients’ records were altered to suggest NHS waiting time targets were met.

Winter NHS deaths rise a national scandal
Tue, 24 Nov 2009- The highest winter NHS deaths figures in almost 10 years should act as a “deafening wake-up call” for the labour Government, charities said today.

Rich list reveals 80 NHS chiefs paid more than Gordon Brown
Tue, 8 Dec 2009- At least 350 NHS executives in hospitals and primary care trusts were paid more than £150,000 last year, according to new research.

NHS hospitals face four year spending squeeze after labour’s cuts
Mon, 14 Dec 2009- NHS hospitals are to face a four year spending squeeze in an attempt to drive up their productivity.
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And that was just 2009, look up the previous 10 years and tell me the NHS dosen't need sorting out.

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Thank Heaven that we have an electoral system that allows us to choose between the clearly incompetent and the transparently greedy.

How strange that when I followed this link:-
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I got this:-
Error 404 - Not Found

The NHS doesn't need sorting out - the highest ever patient satisfaction level was recorded in a poll last year. I'm sure if the NHS had needed sorting out with a "top down reorganisation", Cameron would have told us as much during the general election campaign, wouldn't he??

"look up the previous 10 years and tell me the NHS dosen't need sorting out."

What about the 18yrs before that atv?... Yes there has to be some "sorting out", not stealth privatisation though eh???

"333 donations from private healthcare sources totalling £8.3 million gifted to the Tories."

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Mussolini used to claim there was lawlessness in Italy in the 1920s and that therefore stronger (that is, fascist) government was needed. In fact, to prove his point he sent his supporters out to create disorder.

In the same mindset, Tory propagandists such as 'Health Direct' try to talk down one of the best-value healthcare systems in the world, the NHS. Why? To justify this corruption of private healthcare companies funding the Tories (and to a lesser extent the Lib Dems) in return for them breaking up the NHS - without a mandate - just so that it can make a profit for those donors.

Mel wrote:"look up the previous 10 years and tell me the NHS dosen't need sorting out."

What about the 18yrs before that atv?... Yes there has to be some "sorting out", not stealth privatisation though eh???

Once again as soon as anyone mentions the last Labour government we have a history lesson.

Strange that it's OK for Labour to introduce privatisation though stealth!!!

Ivan wrote:[b In the same mindset, Tory propagandists such as 'Health Direct' try to talk down one of the best-value healthcare systems in the world, the NHS. Why?

And that's the answer is it?

The point is is it the truth or not, I personnally know about South Staffs Hospital it's on my doorstep.

Also it appears there is more being revealed about how our NHS as been run this past decade, but I suppose that too is Tory propaganda. Next you will be telling me that all those Doctors and Nurse who are now revealing the truth about the NHS are all Torys.

Another example of the descent into fascism under this evil government:-

A senior doctor who signed a letter criticising the proposed NHS changes has been told to attend a disciplinary hearing later this week. Professor John Ashton, County Medical Officer for Cumbria, received a letter last week after he joined 22 other signatories to a letter in a national newspaper criticising Lansley's NHS Bill.

In the House of Commons Andy Burnham (Shadow Health Secretary) asked Lansley if it was now his "policy to threaten NHS staff with disciplinary action if they speak out about his reorganisation". He challenged Lansley to reconcile his "new top-down bullying policy" with his previous strong support for NHS whistleblowers.

The Tories pay lip service to the concept of freedom for the individual, but that soon goes out of the window if anyone dares to criticise this vile regime.

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I am not a huge fan of the Labour Party by any means, but I must admit to liking the cut of the jib of Andy Burnham. And if he can insert a few more lengthy and horribly painful needles into the soft tissue of that snide rat Lansley, I shall like him even more...

An extract from 'The Lancet', the world's leading general medical journal:-

The government's continued insistence on its structural changes and its failure to provide an adequate account of why they are necessary confirms concerns that the policy rationale has not been fully disclosed.

The government says that its changes are “vital”. But this is only the case if the object is to create a system that permits alternative funding sources for services currently provided free as part of the NHS. These amendments do not affect the heart of the policy behind the Bill, which is to introduce a mixed financing system and to abolish the model of tax-financed universal health care on which the NHS is based.

The Bill and current amendments fail to safeguard the core principles of universal care and the duties of the Secretary of State to uphold those principles. The duty on the Secretary of State to provide or secure provision in accordance with the founding legislation of the 1946 Act must be restored if England is to have a national health service.

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Leading critics of NHS reform are being silenced in a bid to kill off dissent.

Extracts from an article by Ian Dunt:-

Frances Crook, head of the Howard League for Penal Reform and a former non-executive of a Primary Care Trust (PCT), was told she would be fired if she went public with her criticism of the NHS Bill, following an article in which she highlighted her concerns in 'The New Statesman'.

"It was quite threatening" she told politics.co.uk. "I wrote pretty much what non-executive directors at meetings had been saying. I was expressing pretty widespread concerns. The director told me if I did this I should resign. He even told the appointments commission and I'm sure they blacklisted me. They made it very clear if I did anything else critical in public about the legislation or the way the government was moving I would have to resign. Other non-executive directors were worried about going public."

She continued: "There's a voice that’s missing. You haven't heard non-execs talking. And yet we're supposed to represent the public on PCTs."

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Sorry mate, Mr.Lansley has abolished you. End of story.

Maybe we should look at the History of NHS spending


HISTORY OF NHS SPENDING

At the beginning of the 20th century, government spent about 0.5 percent of GDP on health. But spending began to increase in 1909 after passage of the National Insurance Act, reaching 1.14 percent of GDP in 1921.
Health spending increased steadily in the 1920s and 1930s reaching 1.91 percent of GDP at the start of World War II. Spending kept steady during the war and then increased briskly after the war, reaching 3.07 percent just before the National Health Service was set up in 1948.
Costs rose sharply in the early years of the NHS, reaching 3.6 percent of GDP by 1950 and then dropping to 3.0 percent of GDP by 1955. Spending increased steadily after the mid 1950s, running at about 3.5 percent of GDP in the early 1960s and increasing to 4.0 percent of GDP by 1970 and peaking at 4.98 percent of GDP in 1975.
Health spending declined in the late 1970s, down to 4.7 percent of GDP in 1979 and increased thereafter, reaching 5.64 percent of GDP in 1983 before beginning a decline to 5.16 percent in 1988. Then spending jolted upwards, reaching 6.31 percent of GDP by 1993 before a steep decline to 4.91 percent of GDP in 1998.

Spending began increasing sharply after 1999, and is expected to reach a planned expenditures of 8.43 percent of GDP in 2010.
HM Treasury 2012


I think we can safely said the NHS is better looked after under the Labour party.

Phil Hornby wrote:I am not a huge fan of the Labour Party by any means, but I must admit to liking the cut of the jib of Andy Burnham. And if he can insert a few more lengthy and horribly painful needles into the soft tissue of that snide rat Lansley, I shall like him even more...

Thank you PH I am in the midst of watching the NHS Bill debate on the BBC Parliament channel, Andy Burnham is doing well and fighting his corner it has came up that the Lib/Dems are loosing activists quicker on the NHS Bill than when they triple the Uni fees and that says it all this could be the Bill that tears this coalition apart. Andrew George is still against this Bill and it could be him that leads the revolt of the Lib/Dems.

I was watching PMQs earlier and Mr Bone Tory MP stood up and insulted Nick Clegg and the Lib/Dems with a quote from his wife I think there conference this Spring will be very interesting indeed.

Quote Red Flag

I was watching PMQs earlier and Mr Bone Tory MP stood up and insulted Nick Clegg and the Lib/Dems with a quote from his wife I think there conference this String will be very interesting indeed.


I was in the car and trying to listen to PHQ on the radio. It took me 10 minutes to tune in. I thought, every time I got on the right channel, that I had tuned in to the monkey house in London Zoo. In the few minutes I heard all I learnt was the fact that the Tories thought the Labour policies were wrong, and vice versa. Debate nil. Abuse 10. Is it any surprise most people are not interested in 'politics'?

Oh, sorry. Apparently it was the monkey house

The news tonight is that there could be a Lib Dem rebellion on the cards over the health reforms, a group of Lib Dems are canvassing support for a motion to be put before their spring conference calling for large parts of the bill to be scrapped, whilst others are calling for the whole bill to be ditched.

According to BBC sources tonight, many Lib Dem members are leaving the party in disgust over the NHS reforms.

It seems to me that some people with Liberal Democratic values are sticking by their principles, the membership of the Lib Dems has shrunk dramatically since May 2010, but a few have clung on hoping that common sense might return, the NHS bill is the final straw for many Lib Dems.

Atv Wrote--"Once again as soon as anyone mentions the last Labour government we have a history lesson.

Strange that it's OK for Labour to introduce privatisation though stealth!!!"

Some really need a history lesson and a reality check. Perhaps these indeviduals are reaping some benefit from measures being meeted out by
this shower. Same old Tory attitude, look after yourself and sod the rest.

Of course Camer-con latches upon the tiny input of private assistance by the last Labour government into our NHS. He thinks this gives him the right
to eventually privatise the whole system.

The following LD's signed the EDM calling for release of the Risk Register.

At the vote it appears they abstained

Annette Brooke
Mike Crockart
Duncan Hames - voted with govt
Martin Horwood
Julian Huppart
John Leech
Alan Reid
Dan Rogerson
Bob Russell
Adrian Sanders - voted with govt
Ian Swales

So much for the LD's having any guts. Some hope of the above keeping their seats next time.

Sally Bercow, John ( speaker)Bercows wife has an autistic child. She said this about the governments attitude to disabilities and carers.

Quote "I am a carer in the sense that all mums are carers, you know. I don't view Oliver as being particularly disabled, although of course he has got a disability, but I feel a responsibility to speak up for carers? I guess I do but that is partly my politics, the way that the government are screwing, sorry to use that language, but the way that the government are absolutely stuffing people on disability benefits and carers is outrageous, and somebody has got to speak up for them.

Straight from the horses mouth and her husband John is a Tory to boot.

atv. With an organisation as large as the NHS it will always be possible to find horror stories as a way to try and justify the destruction of the service by the Tories. Your reference to South Staffs Hospital is a mere anecdote, just as I’ve heard both good and bad stories about hospitals near where I live.

The Tories have always hated the NHS, opposing its creation in 1948 and running it down at every opportunity when they’re in power. 18 years of Tory rule left the NHS in a poor state in 1997, with neglected hospitals, an acute shortage of nurses and two-year waiting lists. When they lied their way back into power in 2010 - with Cameron sick enough to make capital out of his dead son - the NHS had never been better, with more nurses and doctors than ever before, waiting times reduced from two years to eighteen weeks, and patient satisfaction at an all time high of 86%. It isn’t broke and it doesn’t need fixing.

The last thing I’ll take is a lecture on the NHS from a Tory, thank you. A BMJ report says the NHS already works "remarkably well" compared with health services of other countries:-
“The NHS is performing so well that it does not need to undergo the radical transformation planned by the coalition. While the health service in England has some weaknesses, it should be left to continue making improvements that began when Labour was in power, and not face another massive upheaval, an analysis by health researchers led by Professor David Ingleby of Utrecht University in the Netherlands concluded.”
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We all know what the Tory reforms are really about - corruption. The Tories, and even Lansley's private office, have been bankrolled by private healthcare firms, and now it's payback time. If that means destroying a cherished public institution, what the hell do the Tories care? Money is all that interests them, and Cameron and his millionaires can afford private treatment whenever they need it. Wake up and smell the coffee.

The news tonight is that there could be a Lib Dem rebellion on the cards over the health reforms

witchfinder. You can take that with a pinch of salt. For a start, 16 Lib Dem MPs signed the motion for the release of the Risk Register, then only 4 voted for it, with some even voting against. Secondly, the Lib Dems have received over £1 milllion in bungs from private health firms, so they've been bought off just like their Tory bedfellows. Any 'decent' Lib Dem supporters left the party long ago, like our friend from MSN Allen Taylor-Hoad did. The Lib Dems, without any principles and hardly any activists, are a spent force.

It's gone too far now for Cameron to sacrifice Lansley on the broken altar of the NHS Reform Bill without falling on his own sword (fat chance!). The likely outcome is that there WILL be a reform bill passed, but in the classic form of a horse designed by Committee that looks rather like a camel.

Please bare with me for a moment.
I appologise if I enter this in the wrong discussion.

A Survey on the care received by Cancer Patients dropped on the dog's head this morning - Thursday.

I missed the last survey 2 years ago coz I was days away from diagnosis.

I am extremely happy with the treatment I have, and am receiving.

The 3 consultant surgeons yes, 3! one is "delegated" to me, are "salt of the earth!" but these guys serve in Helmand on a regular rotation (I will countenance NO 'funnys' from posters about the military presence. These guys help the civilian population as much as our guys, and US servicemen also!!

From the folowing link, you can check the replies to the Survey as it was taken in 2010! - just click on the area/trust/hospital you are interested in.


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Mel wrote:"look up the previous 10 years and tell me the NHS dosen't need sorting out."

What about the 18yrs before that atv?... Yes there has to be some "sorting out", not stealth privatisation though eh???

They have said that this will be Scam..er,,ons "POLL TAX" every Neglect case or Death that happens within the NHS it will be his fault because to this top down reorganization, the private part of the NHS that SCAM..er..on is bringing in who will pay for the neglect and death cases they cause because as we all know they do not want to pay for those toxic implants they are liable for but refuse to put the implant scandal to rights.

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"

With the Lib Dem leadership facing a potential grassroots revolt over the issue at their spring conference next month, the Labour leader warned they could suffer an even bigger backlash than they did over student tuition fees."

Ed Miliband, writing in 'The Sunday Mirror':-

"Cameron didn’t tell you at the election that within months of coming to power, he would order the biggest ever top-down reorganisation of the NHS.

He didn’t tell you that he would divert billions of pounds to his ­bureaucratic shake-up and away from patient care.

He didn’t tell you that he would bring in new rules which say up to 49% of the beds in an NHS hospital could be set aside for private ­patients.

But this is what he is doing.

He didn’t tell you because he ­wanted to con people into thinking the NHS was safe in his hands.

The reality is on his watch, the NHS is getting worse.

The bad old days of long queues for some operations, longer waiting times in A&E and fewer nurses are coming back.

The number of NHS nurses has now fallen by 3,500 since the general ­election. By the time of the next ­election there will be 6,000 fewer nurses.

The billions spent on David ­Cameron’s unwanted reorganisation could save these jobs."

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A very dire warning goes out to the Lib Dems this week, and if they do not take notice of the warnings, then they face an even bigger public outcry than over tuition fees.

If the various opinion polls are even remotely accurate, then a general election now would see them virtualy wiped out, they have a stark choice in front of them, if they killed off the health bill, then they would be seen as the saviour of the NHS and as a principled party that just could not stand idly by and see Cameron take apart the greatest state run institution in the world.

If the Lib Dems let this bill go through, they are almost certainly putting the final nail into their own coffin.

No matter where you see or hear the Lib-Dems, either on PMQ‘s, Question Time, The Andrew Marr thingy or whatever else, they always refer to themselves as the Government. It matters not a jot what rumours abound, the fact that they think they are in Government tells me they will not turn against their partners in crime, as they know as well as we, there aint no coming back at the end of this Parliament. They will lie, cheat and sell the people down the swany for their 5 minutes/years of fame, May 2015 will most certainly be the end of this weak and foolish Parliamentary Party, and after that who will have them, They may want to start another party with a different name, they may try to join other existing party’s, it won’t matter though as we know who and what they are. As for the Tory’s, they are now on their death bed, and they know it, its just some individuals of which a couple turn up here every so often, who read and digest every bit of verbal diarrhoea put their way, by Herr Cameron who doesn’t give a shyte about his weak minded followers unless they are multi millionaires. it’s the non caring leading the non thinking. But then it takes all sorts.

A major factor in any decision concerning the NHS is that most people expect more of it than it could ever possibly deliver. Everyone expects to have instant attention to their faintest malaise and treatment regardless of cost.

Imagine a Motor Manufacturer offering an unlimited lifetime guarantee on its product. The car would have to cost half a million quid new, and they'd only ever sell you ONE.

There is little doubt that the average Brit expects a great deal from all the country's public services. Joe Public needs to condition his aspirations to a level he can afford in relation to the tax he is willing to pay.

And as for expecting a decent government....

This weekend's 'Tories Support the NHS' Rally proved more popular than expected

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Are the Tory plans for the NHS falling apart?

If they were merely TORY plans, they would certainly by now have failed to pass the Parliamentary process.

Someone must be helping them. Perhaps that someone should be the real target of public ire.

Nick Clegg has backed further changes to the Government's NHS reforms as he attempts to head off Liberal Democrat anger over the shake-up.

Who is he trying to kid at the eleventh hour?
Is his supposed backing of the changes political, or is it that he really cares for the safety of our NHS? Me thinks---what a silly question Mel

We shan't understand Nick Clegg's motivation without also understanding (1.) Why he first stood against University tuition fees and then abandoned that stance, instead of simply abstaining;
(2.) Why he failed to spot an opportunity to scupper the NHS Bill when DC called for a re-think of it. and
(3.) Why he continues twittering-on about Reform of the House of Lords, at a time when most of the interested parties wish to abolish it.

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twitter.com

"Despite the political rhetoric, nowhere in the Bill does it actually state that GPs are required to do the commissioning or purchasing of services in the new market. In reality, it is likely that few will be able to show the necessary competence in the highly technical business of buying health care. Instead, the Bill allows CCGs (unelected Clinical Commissioning Groups) to contract out commissioning functions to private accountancy, health insurance and management consultant firms, which will be able to decide what care is provided free at the point of use through the NHS and what is not.

This means that profit-making companies will be able to provide your clinical care and also decide what you’re entitled to under the NHS and from which care providers. Companies will also design and set the care targets that doctors must meet. There is the potential for commercial conflicts when the needs of shareholders come between doctors and patients."

For the full article by Max Pemberton:-
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Ivan wrote:Phil, if you log in to 'Twitter' you might still be able to see some of the exchanges I had earlier today with a Boris Johnson sycophant. When confronted with a string of facts, she just resorted to a few lies and smears and then vanished.

No great surprise there then Ivan...as its what they do best...lie

The results of the survey I have posted above, should be quite revealing when compared to the survey that is being taken now.
The one above, Jan - March 2010 B.C. (Before Cameron)
This year, Jan - March 2012

I have found that funding for Drugs has been clipped back from April 2015, the April 2013! As I find more "differences" I will post them up.

NHS Reforms: David Cameron Insists He 'Does Not Care' If The Health And Social Care Bill Is Unpopular

David Cameron has said he does not care if he has to "take a hit" on the controversial health reforms, there is no going back.

Addressing the Conservative spring forum, the Prime Minister said the shake-up was "unavoidable and urgent".

However he sought to reassure party activists over the crucial doorstep election issue of the NHS reforms, saying that the National Health Service was "in the party's DNA and that's not going to change".

Mr Cameron chose a classical rally cry to appeal to Tory grassroots at the central London event, saying "fortune favours brave governments".

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So there you have it, the listening exercise was just paying lip service and the Tory leadership couldn't give a toss about what the rest of the country thinks......