Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

by Ivanhoe Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

Through the Thatcher Major, years, millions of British people were made poor as a matter of policy, while others got rich as a matter of policy.

Blair and Brown embraced Thatcherism due to the change in the British, and now Milliband wants to change Labour again due to a changed Britain.

I personally long for a political party that sticks to it's core values, that has conviction, that does not change itself to suit a greedy selfish uncaring British populas who'se only thought is "self". In my view this "self" is mainly among the British middle classes.

Thatcher changed Britain for the worse, and now we are reaping through this dreadful coalition, what has been sown.

by Stox 16 Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:41 pm

blueturando wrote:
What is pie in the sky is those who would like an alternative government, complain about the only viable ones and live on cloud nine thinking that their vote "if they don't sit on the political fence and abstain of course)

Distrust in Politicians and the main parties are at their highest levels ever and coincidentally, voting turn out is very low. I think this sums up how many, many people feel about our current politicians.

I know you are a very loyal Labour supporter so your judgment may be a little clouded, but the overwhelming feeling out there is that our politicians of all the main parties are.....

Style over substance
show weak leadership
are out of touch with ordinary people
are in the pockets of money men and big business
still waste vast amount of tax payers money
Have no clue or interest in securing a long term future for the country...only the length of a term in government
They are greedy, selfish and in the main, career politicians

Unfortunately for you, this list above also includes the Labour Party, maybe not at grass route but certainly at the shadow cabinet level.
I for one am fed up with us going round in circles passing the government football from one party to the other, with no real improvement or forward thinking in sight.
All we get from our current politicians is sound bites, failed promises and fantasy manifestos.

I would put money on it that 5 of us here could sit round together and put a 10 point plan together to get the country back on track. The difference is we're not in anyone’s pockets and we know what it's like to live in the real world

Blue
I know that it helps to say we maybe a little clouded, but for me this just does not come into it. but to be 100% truth I worked within politics form 1984 to 1997. I was what was called a back room boy deal with rules and selections and by-elections. What I would say this much I would not of swap my job with that of an MPs for three times the salary. I could just not put up with the 24/7 media to start with. it looks very easy till you happen to try it. then you find out that everyday is a problem day. as the mail just does not stop coming weather you're on holiday or not. I know one MP who got 6 sackfuls every three days.

anyway yes I am sure we could come up with a 10 point plan. but then that is only the start of it. as it does not take very long to get bogged down with it. just the budget alone take 6 weeks within the commons just to give it its first reading. then 6 more weeks in committee and that is if everyone is playing ball. then its the Lords and it goes on and on. i am not feeling sorry for anyone in the HOC but its can be a very stressful job and its one that does not stop because you do not feel like it one day.

by Stox 16 Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:46 pm

blueturando wrote:ASTRA......Excuse my niavety (we don't have council tax in Jersey) just parish rates.

Are all the council tax rates the same across the UK?

No its not, council Tax is dreadful tax Blue. its such a dam stupid tax. as OAP give up work and still have to pay 20% council tax. what's more they have no real income coming it to pay for it.

by Ivanhoe Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:59 pm

blueturando wrote:ASTRA......Excuse my niavety (we don't have council tax in Jersey) just parish rates.

Are all the council tax rates the same across the UK?

bluey,

Who and what then, funds your local services in Jersey ?

by astra Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:29 pm

Hello Blue,

If you look at the figure for, say, a band "D" house, by no means 'posh' just run of the mill, you will see that the rate changes from county to county - indeed town council to town council.

I do not have the figures to hand, but MANY folks are upping sticks from Newcastle to Northumberland and Durham. This is NOT taken account of and lengthens the daily drudge as the roads here are KRAP!!

by oftenwrong Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:33 pm

Who and what then, funds your local services in Jersey ?

Google "Offshore tax havens".

Ask why there are more Companies registered in CI than there are inhabitants.

by Hogun13 Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:21 pm

Yes, she made lots of mistakes, but hey Labour who also made mistakes, could have undone the wrongs of Thatcher.

by Ivanhoe Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:49 pm

Hogun13 wrote:Yes, she made lots of mistakes, but hey Labour who also made mistakes, could have undone the wrongs of Thatcher.

No political party makes mistakes. They have idelogies and they stick to them.

by Mel Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:00 pm

Hogun,
like Cameron and Co "the wrongs" that Thatcher committed many have been irriverible. She the Witch knew it and so does the con man Dave the rave.
Labour made mistakes of course, however they put right much of what Thatcher did not address. Cameron is attempting to address everything
that he can achieve in the shortest space of time. And that addressing will certainly be impossible to reverse. That IMO was the whole idea in the first place, knowing that the Coalition would be out on its ears at the next election. Nothing more than scorched earth, regardless of the damage to the people of this country and yet all else will be spared that provides for the wealthy.

by Redflag Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:02 pm

astra wrote:
Abolish the unjust council tax and bring in a fair system of local tax based on ability to pay.

No!.....Everyone uses the same services, so we must all pay the same
Blue

Every where has differing costs!
People in Northumberland DO NOT get the same wage as someone in Lunding - this to include teachers and Nurses!
SO, People in Northumberland and County Durham SHOULD NOT be paying the same as someone in London to get their waste taken away!

London Weighting should be applied over the WHOLE country. or else be taken away to produce the - "we must all pay the same" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for your post astra I never thought of it like that but your quite right if they are going to pay the North less than the going rate in London, everything that we have to pay for like P.A.Y.E council tax and V.A.T and for the car owners petrol.

by Redflag Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:03 am

Hogun13 wrote:Yes, she made lots of mistakes, but hey Labour who also made mistakes, could have undone the wrongs of Thatcher.

She made too many Hogun13, and yes so did Labour but she took the biscuit when it came too mistakes yes they should of undone some of the Maggots nastiness the one thing I would have like to have seen is giving the Unions SOME of there rights back.

If Labour get in at the next GE they will have a pile of shytay clear up and I do not envy their job because that will be a job and a half to undo, with the NHS at the top of the list along with getting people back into work instead of languishing on the scrap heap.

by blueturando Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:48 am

No its not, council Tax is dreadful tax Blue. its such a dam stupid tax. as OAP give up work and still have to pay 20% council tax. what's more they have no real income coming it to pay for it.

STOX....That's ridiculous!!!! Legailised robbery too

bluey,

Who and what then, funds your local services in Jersey ?.

Ivanhoe.....Jersey is split into 8 parishes, each paying a yearly parish rates bill. I live in St.Helier wich is the capital so our bills are the highest, but it's still only £212 per year
Our income tax probably pays for much of what your council tax pays for as our welfare costs are much smaller per capita that the uk.

Nobody can claim any benefits unless they have paid into the system for 5 years (except sickness benefit)
No council housing unless you have lived here for 10 years
All doctors are private (OAP's get free treatment) Same for Dentists

It may seem a little harsh but it works

Google "Offshore tax havens".

Ask why there are more Companies registered in CI than there are inhabitants

OW....Finance is and has been our largest industry for many years. We are very good at it and with many very experienced and skilled people working in the industry so we are seen as stable, trusted and a safe bet. We are an independent county and can set out tax rates as we like, just like the UK does. Most of our business comes from whats called emerging market...IE: Russia and ex soviet states, China, Africa and Brazil.
Jersey has very strict transparancy agreements with the UK and the EU, to stop tax evasion and money laundering. Tax avoidance is another matter and is down to UK an EU tax laws that could and should addressed, especially for big business.
Unfortuantely many politicians in all parties with business interests of their own are happy to take advantage of these laws, or don't want to rock the boat for their rich and powerfull friends. Because Jersey had agreed tougher transparancy laws much of our UK and EU business has vanished to places like, Cayman, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bermuda, Luxembourg, Monaco, Dubai and Bahrain

by Mel Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:32 am

Back to Thatcher changing Britain for the worse.

As I have explained before the Witch IMO was responsible for the
Credit Crunch along with her fancy man Reagan.

Northern Rock, Abbey National, Bradford & Bingley, Halifax together almost brought down Lloyds TSB. If that bitch had not allowed MUTUAL Building Societies to convert into `Banks`we would not be in such a bad position as we are now. We all jumped on the wagon for free/cheap shares and thousands opened accounts in as many societies as they could do to get all the benifts.
Just because these measures happened some years ago is no excuse as we now suffer as a concequence of actions taken then which eventually opened the floodgates.
Again yet another move by her to compensate loss of tax revenues from the closures and sell offs of much of our industry and utilities.
For anyone to say that the following government could have "reversed" the situation are living in ignorance and cloud cookoo land I'm sad to say.

All this coupled with her de-regulation, allowing bank to bank lending completed the jigsaw of distruction.
Never in the history of man has a woman done so much for the few at the expense of the many. Cameron continues the ideology with much vigour and blatant arrogance. God help us all, never mind "GOD SAVE THE QUEEN"
With much respect ma'am.

by Ivanhoe Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:39 am

blueturando wrote:
No its not, council Tax is dreadful tax Blue. its such a dam stupid tax. as OAP give up work and still have to pay 20% council tax. what's more they have no real income coming it to pay for it.

STOX....That's ridiculous!!!! Legailised robbery too

bluey,

Who and what then, funds your local services in Jersey ?.

Ivanhoe.....Jersey is split into 8 parishes, each paying a yearly parish rates bill. I live in St.Helier wich is the capital so our bills are the highest, but it's still only £212 per year
Our income tax probably pays for much of what your council tax pays for as our welfare costs are much smaller per capita that the uk.

Nobody can claim any benefits unless they have paid into the system for 5 years (except sickness benefit)
No council housing unless you have lived here for 10 years
All doctors are private (OAP's get free treatment) Same for Dentists

It may seem a little harsh but it works

Google "Offshore tax havens".

Ask why there are more Companies registered in CI than there are inhabitants

OW....Finance is and has been our largest industry for many years. We are very good at it and with many very experienced and skilled people working in the industry so we are seen as stable, trusted and a safe bet. We are an independent county and can set out tax rates as we like, just like the UK does. Most of our business comes from whats called emerging market...IE: Russia and ex soviet states, China, Africa and Brazil.
Jersey has very strict transparancy agreements with the UK and the EU, to stop tax evasion and money laundering. Tax avoidance is another matter and is down to UK an EU tax laws that could and should addressed, especially for big business.
Unfortuantely many politicians in all parties with business interests of their own are happy to take advantage of these laws, or don't want to rock the boat for their rich and powerfull friends. Because Jersey had agreed tougher transparancy laws much of our UK and EU business has vanished to places like, Cayman, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bermuda, Luxembourg, Monaco, Dubai and Bahrain

Bluey,

Since the 80's in the UK, there has been a shift in tax policy about how we fund our vital services at local level, and it started with Thatcher's poll tax.

When Thatcher got into power in 1980, she began to remove the role of the State in favour of local taxes funding local services, instead of increasing income tax, she she bought in poll tax which replaced the rates.

What we have had since the 80's is a form of local tax under three names, ie poll tax, then community charge and now council tax which has been allowed to increase to fund local services, but where income tax has remained static, this represents a devolution of local services from central Goverment funding.

I am convinced the ordinary general public have not seen this coming.

by Stox 16 Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:15 am

blueturando wrote:
No its not, council Tax is dreadful tax Blue. its such a dam stupid tax. as OAP give up work and still have to pay 20% council tax. what's more they have no real income coming it to pay for it.

STOX....That's ridiculous!!!! Legailised robbery too

bluey,

Who and what then, funds your local services in Jersey ?.

Ivanhoe.....Jersey is split into 8 parishes, each paying a yearly parish rates bill. I live in St.Helier wich is the capital so our bills are the highest, but it's still only £212 per year
Our income tax probably pays for much of what your council tax pays for as our welfare costs are much smaller per capita that the uk.

Nobody can claim any benefits unless they have paid into the system for 5 years (except sickness benefit)
No council housing unless you have lived here for 10 years
All doctors are private (OAP's get free treatment) Same for Dentists

It may seem a little harsh but it works

Google "Offshore tax havens".

Ask why there are more Companies registered in CI than there are inhabitants

OW....Finance is and has been our largest industry for many years. We are very good at it and with many very experienced and skilled people working in the industry so we are seen as stable, trusted and a safe bet. We are an independent county and can set out tax rates as we like, just like the UK does. Most of our business comes from whats called emerging market...IE: Russia and ex soviet states, China, Africa and Brazil.
Jersey has very strict transparancy agreements with the UK and the EU, to stop tax evasion and money laundering. Tax avoidance is another matter and is down to UK an EU tax laws that could and should addressed, especially for big business.
Unfortuantely many politicians in all parties with business interests of their own are happy to take advantage of these laws, or don't want to rock the boat for their rich and powerfull friends. Because Jersey had agreed tougher transparancy laws much of our UK and EU business has vanished to places like, Cayman, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bermuda, Luxembourg, Monaco, Dubai and Bahrain

Hello Blue

I totally agree its ....That's ridiculous!!!! Legailised robbery too. my own mother is 82 years old and still paying 20% of her Council Tax bill. same goes for unemployed. if you ask me council Tax is just ridiculous full stop. its just the same as poll tax in all but name in my view.

This note contains key statistics on council tax levels in 2012/13 and a limited amount of analysis is provided from the house of Commons.

The average council tax for a band D household in 2012/13 is: £1,444 in England; £1,188 in Wales; and £1,149 in Scotland.

In England the average council tax for a band D household will rise by 0.3% on 2011/12. In Wales the average band D council tax will rise by 2.2% on 2011/12. Council tax levels have been frozen in Scotland.

by Ivanhoe Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:29 am

Stox 16 wrote:
blueturando wrote:
No its not, council Tax is dreadful tax Blue. its such a dam stupid tax. as OAP give up work and still have to pay 20% council tax. what's more they have no real income coming it to pay for it.

STOX....That's ridiculous!!!! Legailised robbery too

bluey,

Who and what then, funds your local services in Jersey ?.

Ivanhoe.....Jersey is split into 8 parishes, each paying a yearly parish rates bill. I live in St.Helier wich is the capital so our bills are the highest, but it's still only £212 per year
Our income tax probably pays for much of what your council tax pays for as our welfare costs are much smaller per capita that the uk.

Nobody can claim any benefits unless they have paid into the system for 5 years (except sickness benefit)
No council housing unless you have lived here for 10 years
All doctors are private (OAP's get free treatment) Same for Dentists

It may seem a little harsh but it works

Google "Offshore tax havens".

Ask why there are more Companies registered in CI than there are inhabitants

OW....Finance is and has been our largest industry for many years. We are very good at it and with many very experienced and skilled people working in the industry so we are seen as stable, trusted and a safe bet. We are an independent county and can set out tax rates as we like, just like the UK does. Most of our business comes from whats called emerging market...IE: Russia and ex soviet states, China, Africa and Brazil.
Jersey has very strict transparancy agreements with the UK and the EU, to stop tax evasion and money laundering. Tax avoidance is another matter and is down to UK an EU tax laws that could and should addressed, especially for big business.
Unfortuantely many politicians in all parties with business interests of their own are happy to take advantage of these laws, or don't want to rock the boat for their rich and powerfull friends. Because Jersey had agreed tougher transparancy laws much of our UK and EU business has vanished to places like, Cayman, Singapore, Hong Kong, Bermuda, Luxembourg, Monaco, Dubai and Bahrain

Hello Blue

I totally agree its ....That's ridiculous!!!! Legailised robbery too. my own mother is 82 years old and still paying 20% of her Council Tax bill. same goes for unemployed. if you ask me council Tax is just ridiculous full stop. its just the same as poll tax in all but name in my view.

This note contains key statistics on council tax levels in 2012/13 and a limited amount of analysis is provided from the house of Commons.

The average council tax for a band D household in 2012/13 is: £1,444 in England; £1,188 in Wales; and £1,149 in Scotland.

In England the average council tax for a band D household will rise by 0.3% on 2011/12. In Wales the average band D council tax will rise by 2.2% on 2011/12. Council tax levels have been frozen in Scotland.

Since the 80's and poll tax, local tax under three names has been allowed to increase to fund local services, while income tax has remained static, this represents a devolution of our vital services from central government funding, which ties in with the Tories ongoing agenda of a small state and low income tax.

In short, since the 80's there has been a shift in tax policy in how we fund our local services, from income tax, to local tax.

by tlttf Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:12 am

Red, this isn't a tory party, this is a continuum of the beloved Blair policies, we haven't ha a tory party since the beloved Margaret Thatcher, all since have been failed tories, and you want to swap one bunch of control freaks for another?

by Redflag Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:37 am

tlttf wrote:Red, this isn't a tory party, this is a continuum of the beloved Blair policies, we haven't ha a tory party since the beloved Margaret Thatcher, all since have been failed tories, and you want to swap one bunch of control freaks for another?

Well one sure thing that I DO NOT WANT is this party of power crazed BACKSTUDS which is called the Tory party or is it the UKIP party ?.

by **astradt1** Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:33 pm

tlttf, Which policies defined Mrs Thatcher the last 'Real' Tory?

by Redflag Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:47 pm

astradt1 wrote:tlttf, Which policies defined Mrs Thatcher the last 'Real' Tory?

That is easy astradt1, any party that puts more money in the pockets of the effing wealthy that sells off things that do not belong to them so "ROGUES & VAGABONDS" is the ideal new name for the Conservetivepileof shit party.

by **astradt1** Thu Mar 28, 2013 10:26 am

astradt1 wrote:tlttf, Which policies defined Mrs Thatcher the last 'Real' Tory?

tittf, Are you still trying to think of at least one policy, are you just stumped?

by tlttf Thu Mar 28, 2013 11:48 am

Sorry Astradt1, I've been too busy working to get near the forum, though I doubt if I've missed much.

Thatcher stopped the unions from controlling the country.
She gave every tenant the right to own their own homes.
She gave me a 39% payrise (Army at the time).
She gave the opportunity for people to aspire to greater things (muffling being the socialist way).
She championed the country against the EU.
She turned the country around from being the sick dog of Europe to being a champion of enterprise.

Anything else, or is that enough for you tear apart at leisure. Smile

by skwalker1964 Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:35 pm

tlttf wrote:Sorry Astradt1, I've been too busy working to get near the forum, though I doubt if I've missed much.

Thatcher stopped the unions from controlling the country.

Thereby hobbling ordinary working people from resisting exploitation.

She gave every tenant the right to own their own homes.

Thereby removing social housing from circulation and fuelling an unhealthy housing price boom, while fooling millions into believing they were better off under the Tories as she robbed us blind.

She gave me a 39% payrise (Army at the time).

Must keep the army and police onside if you want to oppress the masses!

She gave the opportunity for people to aspire to greater things (muffling being the socialist way).

While impoverishing the everyday lives of millions of ordinary people- similar to the government's current plan of taking money away from poor people to get the 'out of the poverty trap'.

She championed the country against the EU.

Because EU policies made it harder for the wealthy to just do whatever they wanted.

She turned the country around from being the sick dog of Europe to being a champion of enterprise.

Enriching a tiny percentage at the top out of all proportion with the vast majority, thereby fuelling inequality. The dog wasn't sick, just more balanced - since Thatcher it's limped and listed like it had gnawed half of each leg off on one side ('dog eat dog' indeed). Give me the more equal and balanced 'sickness' any day.

Anything else, or is that enough for you tear apart at leisure.

The only variance with the current lot is they're idiotic and greedy enough to target the police and armed forces as well.

By the way, you were looking forward with interest to the Mid Staffs analyses, but haven't really participated in the thread since I posted them. Have you seen them?

by Mel Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:38 pm

"There is no such thing as society, only individuals" (only rich individuals of course)

"Make MONEY any way you can" (Yes "dog eat dog indeed")

Thatcher's words during her watch.

by oftenwrong Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:34 pm

"Survival of the fittest" might just about be bearable if the Tory predators were even fit enough to earn a living turning hamburgers on the griddle, but the evidence of the past three years is that you couldn't trust them to put on an apron the right way round if they had to.

by Mel Wed Apr 03, 2013 9:17 pm

Grilled Gideon topped with Thatcher sauce is the recipe. Smile

by oftenwrong Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:51 am

Finger-lickin' good.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:04 pm

Britain's most influential and greatest leader dies of a stroke, but for her vision our country would have been Cuba, God bless her.

by sickchip Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:09 pm

Hey Ho the witch is dead.

Sorry but no tears, or mourning, for that vicious and nasty piece of work.

If I was religious I'd suggest she'd go burn in hell.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:15 pm

Sorry but no tears, or mourning, for that vicious and nasty piece of work.

She transformed the " sick man of Europe " into a country capable of dealing with the economic realities of globalisation.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:19 pm

Sorry, I can't talk right now, I am simply overcome with grief and gratitude.

I wish all her mourners to wait 3 days before accepting her death as being final, on the road to Tesco's I had a vision of her and the iron lady is for returning.

by sickchip Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:31 pm

Tosh wrote:
Sorry but no tears, or mourning, for that vicious and nasty piece of work.

She transformed the " sick man of Europe " into a country capable of dealing with the economic realities of globalisation.

Yep! We're doing just great, eh? Everything's hunky dory in the UK - thanks to the drive towards excessive neo-liberalism and unfettered capitalism Thatcher and Reagan initiated. She was rotten to the core and rotten for this country. The evidence is all around us now.........her legacy is a divided, fractured, and fragmented Britain where excessive inequality of wealth and opportunity has ruined society, cohesion, and unity in this beyond repair country.

by **Phil Hornby** Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:39 pm

Death Of Thatcher - The Devil Speaks Out...

Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 8 Z

" Blast! And just as I thought we were beginning to get a better class of evil down here..."

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:52 pm

Yep! We're doing just great, eh? Everything's hunky dory in the UK - thanks to the drive towards excessive neo-liberalism and unfettered capitalism Thatcher and Reagan initiated.

Thatcher promoted responsible capitalism, it was Labour who permitted " unfettered " capitalism and that is why everything is not hunky dory for a minority of unfortunates.

She was rotten to the core and rotten for this country. The evidence is all around us now.........her legacy is a divided, fractured, and fragmented Britain where excessive inequality of wealth and opportunity has ruined society, cohesion, and unity in this beyond repair country.

Thatcher did not invent the rewards for hard work, and screaming " its just not fair " is not an argument against a meritocracy.

by boatlady Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:01 pm

Personally, I think she was a discredit to her sex, her social class and her country.
Nasty, war mongering, anti-feminist and right wing.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:02 pm

In 1970 Thatcher saw left wing socialism for what it was, a cancer in our society that choked individuality and aspiration, she has been proven right.

I laugh at those who scream equality, 5% of our population invent technology and ideas that provide 50% of our wealth and well being, our competitiveness in a globalised economy depends on a minority of producers who are the outcome of a system that socialism wishes to destroy.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:06 pm

Personally, I think she was a discredit to her sex, her social class and her country.

Sure, that is why she won 3 election landslides in a democracy, the majority disagreed with your personal opinion.

She discredited left wing socialism and stopped Unions running this country into the ground.

by sickchip Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:13 pm

Meritocracy!!! I know your having a laugh now, Tosh.

Hahaha.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:20 pm

Meritocracy!!! I know your having a laugh now, Tosh.

I am inconsolable, you cannot become competitive in a globalised market without a system that rewards endeavour on merit.

by blueturando Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:24 pm

RIP Margaret Thatcher.....You will always be known as the saviour of our country and the best Prime Minister Britain has ever had

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:37 pm

We love you Maggie, like Christus you were the Messiah.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:47 pm

Any event that is not in the present is history, politics is history.

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