Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

by Ivanhoe Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

Through the Thatcher Major, years, millions of British people were made poor as a matter of policy, while others got rich as a matter of policy.

Blair and Brown embraced Thatcherism due to the change in the British, and now Milliband wants to change Labour again due to a changed Britain.

I personally long for a political party that sticks to it's core values, that has conviction, that does not change itself to suit a greedy selfish uncaring British populas who'se only thought is "self". In my view this "self" is mainly among the British middle classes.

Thatcher changed Britain for the worse, and now we are reaping through this dreadful coalition, what has been sown.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:47 pm

Any event that is not in the present is history, politics is history.

by bobby Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:12 pm

The problem we now face, is that whilst millions are preparing to spend their benefits on street parties to celebrate the death of the evil bitch, Herr Cameron will busy himself sliding more of his ruinous policies under the Radar.

by blueturando Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:17 pm

The problem we now face, is that whilst millions are preparing to spend their benefits on street party's to celebrate the death of the evil bitch

Lol.... Thank you Bobby. Without realising it your sentence says it all and that's why so many of us 'ordinary' hard working and proud Brits will always love her

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:41 pm

Benefits for a party was not the original intention of the welfare state, unless you are a lazy commie.

by blueturando Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:47 pm

Uncle Tony knows the score........Good lad Smile

Former prime minister Tony Blair today described Baroness Thatcher as 'a towering political figure'.
He added: 'Very few leaders get to change not only the political landscape of their country but of the world. Margaret was such a leader.
'Her global impact was vast. And some of the changes she made in Britain were, in certain respects at least, retained by the 1997 Labour Government, and came to be implemented by governments around the world

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2305782/Margaret-Thatcher-dead-The-Queen-David-Cameron-Sir-John-Major-pay-tribute.html

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:52 pm

The bottom line was Thatcher saw the effects of globalisation and realised that Britain was not an island.

by **Ivan** Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:09 pm

Tosh. Please observe the rules:-

“An item in today’s news does not necessarily make a good subject for a thread.”

“Don’t create a new thread on a subject which is very similar to one already being discussed.”

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t645-staff-notices-for-members

That applies particularly when the thread has a misleading title, as yours did, and if there is already a suitable thread about the subject in question, you must expect it to be merged.

Thatcher didn’t win all three elections by a landslide, just two. Her majorities were 43, 144 and 101. (Blair also won three successive elections – with majorities of 179, 167 and 66.) For someone who is such a stickler for precise facts on the religion board, you really are very slack when you get out of your cage and venture into politics.

“The country” does not mourn. Try telling that to people in the Welsh valleys or what became industrial wastelands in the north. A hell of a lot of people will be celebrating her death right now, people who had their jobs and communities destroyed, or had their homes repossessed when interest rates doubled in a year in the late 1980s. She was the most divisive Prime Minister in living memory, a hypocrite who arrived in Downing Street promising “where there is conflict, we will bring harmony”.

The policies Thatcher inflicted on us in her first years saw Britain's deepest recession since the 1930s, 3.6 million unemployed, inflation at 21% and riots in 30 towns and cities. Only a contrived war over some worthless rocks in the South Atlantic, which she’d been trying to offload in 1980, saved her skin but wasted over 900 lives. For sinking the General Belgrano, when it was outside the exclusion zone and sailing away from the Falklands, she should have been tried as a war criminal.

Thanks to Thatcher, our utilities are mostly in foreign hands. Under Thatcher, the UK had the highest level of child poverty in the developed world (but now Cameron is set on beating her record). Her policy of selling off council houses and not allowing them to be replaced caused the current public housing shortage. In the 1980s, the gulf between the richest and poorest 20% widened by a full 60% - that's her legacy.

Thatcher was corrupt. She used her position to make her son a millionaire almost overnight. She had a paedophile ring in her government and spent every New Year during her premiership at Chequers with Savile. Did he blackmail her? Perhaps the truth will come out now that she’s dead, just as it did with Savile and Cyril Smith. She was a personal friend of Pinochet, one of the biggest butchers of the last century, and like Ken Clarke, she was even prepared to promote lung cancer in return for cash.

And let’s never forget. Thatcher was such a ‘great’ Prime Minister that her own party kicked her out.

by bobby Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:34 pm

Lol.... Thank you Bobby. Without realising it your sentence says it all and that's why so many of us 'ordinary' hard working and proud Brits will always love her.
Please give me some credit Bluey, you know exactly what I was saying, and that the part about spending benefits, was for you Tories to enjoy, I mean on a day like today why should we have all the fun.
Do you think that in future to make my posts readable and understandable for Tories I should insert little pictures.
As a matter of interest Bluey, not many worked harder than me, and I will not love her as you brainwashed Tories do, but will if possible piss on her grave at the earliest opertunity. Nothing could make me happier than I was earlier when I heard the Crazed Bitch has snuffed it. Mind you though mate it does prove that its the good who die young. Very Happy

here you go a picture for you.

by **Phil Hornby** Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:36 pm

Alas, for those of the Tory persuasion, Cameron's creeping influence ( even despite The Sun's daily Herculean efforts) has not yet developed to the point where we shall be compelled to have a protracted period of mourning for the Cursed Margaret which would be seen in North Korea when their latest despotic leader passes. But you can be sure that they're still working on it...

by **Phil Hornby** Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:44 pm

" RIP Margaret Thatcher.....You will always be known as the saviour of our country and the best Prime Minister Britain has ever had"

Truly there is nothing like nailing one's colours to the mast - and such a willing proclamation as that above can only be compared to announcing proudly that one has been voted ' Patient of the Month' at the local VD Clinic... Shocked

by tlttf Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:53 pm

'To cure the British disease with socialism was like trying to cure leukaemia with leeches.’

One of her truest quotes, greatest Prime minister of all time.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:55 pm

Tosh. Please observe the rules:-

You are kidding.

Your selective criticism of Thatcher ignores the economic mess this country was in prior to her arrival, where would we be now if we were still financing union controlled inefficient nationalised industries ?

We would be a 3rd world country like Cuba.

by **Phil Hornby** Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:57 pm

Another bold soul emerges from the Surgery...! Very Happy

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:01 pm

Socialism only works in caring industries, and even then it struggles, companies that produce things must be kept efficient by market forces and socialism removed these forces that promote efficiency.

The closest thing to working in the public sector is " sleep walking ", most could do their jobs in their sleep.

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:02 pm

I have lit another candle.

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:08 pm

Ding Dong! The Witch is dead. Which old Witch? The Wicked Witch!
Ding Dong! The Wicked Witch is dead.
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Wicked Witch is dead. She's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below. Yo-ho, let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Ding Dong' the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know
The Wicked Witch is dead!

Rejoice! Rejoice!

by **Phil Hornby** Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:10 pm

Not yer actual customary obituary, but it will have to do for now... Very Happy

by **Phil Hornby** Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:24 pm

Favourite Thatcher quotes No 274

" We are leaving Downing Street for the last time..." cheers

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:34 pm

May God have mercy on your commie souls.

by bobby Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:43 pm

Tosh said: May God have mercy on your commie souls.

Somfing wrong there Tosh, It ain us whats Brown Bread, its the Tory Bithch Thatcher.

by sickchip Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:49 pm

The fact that she cut the upper tax rate from 80% to 40% in the space of approx. 8yrs, whilst simultaneously increasing VAT, amply demonstrates what she stood for. This had the effect of exacerbating inequality - not only of wealth but also of opportunity. She had nothing but disdain, contempt, and revulsion for the working classes. She was a snob feathering the nests of the rich.

Tosh states: The bottom line was Thatcher saw the effects of globalisation and realised that Britain was not an island.

Yet she made everyman an island. She systematically attacked the unions and weakened workers rights. She deliberately broke community spirit and encouraged an 'I'm alright Jack', dog eat dog culture and ethos. The present Tory incumbents have carried on this tactic with their disgusting propaganda campaign against EVERYBODY on benefits......and it appears to be working - making low paid workers resent those on welfare.

The danger is the timing of Maggies death may do the Tory party a favour come the next election. We will no doubt be engulfed in a wave of bullshit sympathy and respect from the British media over the coming weeks/months. She will be portrayed as a courageous, and visionary, saviour of the UK and the British public are complete saps for this kind of sentimental drivel - and that may serve the Tories well in 2015.

It's a pity for this country that she died about 44yrs too late.

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:53 pm

God forbid that the Nasty Party benefit from another Falklands Factor !

They don't even agree with "benefits".

by **Ivan** Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:41 pm

Socialism only works in caring industries, and even then it struggles, companies that produce things must be kept efficient by market forces and socialism removed these forces that promote efficiency.

Tosh. Any facts and figures to support that pile of drivel? No, of course not. Yet if polyglide wrote similar trite tripe on the religion board, you'd be the first to jump up and down in your cage.
bounce

by **Ivan** Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:23 pm

Tosh wrote:-
Your selective criticism of Thatcher ignores the economic mess this country was in prior to her arrival

Yawn. Same old tired Tory lie that we get every time they come to power. What “economic mess”??

When Labour returned to power in March 1974, it inherited inflation which was 13.4% and rising. Part of that was due to the quadrupling of oil prices by the Arab states, and unlike most Tories, I won’t try and pin the blame for that on “the last lot”. However, there was also the ‘boom’ created by the Tory Anthony Barber, who must rank alongside Norman Lamont as one of the worst chancellors ever.

The Labour government cut its inherited balance of payments deficit by nearly 60%, brought unemployment down to around a million and inflation down to just under 10%. Overall, the 1974-79 Labour governments of Wilson and Callaghan reduced annual expenditure as a share of GDP from 25.7% to 22.9% and reduced the national debt from 50% to 46%. There was no “economic mess”, more like poor industrial relations because the unions wouldn’t accept Callaghan’s 5% cap on pay rises.

At that time, we still had energy security with oil, coal, electricity and gas still owned as vital national assets held in common ownership. We also had one of the lowest levels of poverty in Europe, and in the mid 1970s, Britain (in terms of wealth) was at its most equal ever. After massive state investment, North Sea oil was also about to come on stream. In the event, the Tories got the lot, and they used it to lower taxes for the rich (whilst almost doubling VAT), privatising vital national assets and using the proceeds to fund the 3 million plus unemployment which they deliberately created in just four years.

The idea of Britain as 'the sick man of Europe' in the 1970s – a myth created by the Tory tabloids – still retains a powerful symbolism that is summoned up by the right because they have nothing sensible to say and have to rely on meaningless soundbites. If you are genuinely interested in the facts, Andy Beckett, William Keegan, Katherine Burke, Robin Ramsey and Lord Skidelsky have all radically re-evaluated the 1970s. They make much more sense than the trash peddled by those who perpetuate the myths of history in ‘The Daily Mail’ and ‘The Daily Express’.

by sickchip Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:30 pm

Excellent post, Ivan. Thanks for making some pertinent points and exposing some of the myths of the state of 70's Britain.

by sickchip Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:42 pm

Hats off to Neil Kinnock:

Heckler: At least Mrs Thatcher has got guts.
Neil Kinnock: It's a pity that other people had to leave theirs on the ground at Goose Green to prove it.

and:
If Margaret Thatcher is re-elected as prime minister on Thursday, I warn you. I warn you that you will have pain – when healing and relief depend upon payment. I warn you that you will have ignorance – when talents are untended and wits are wasted, when learning is a privilege and not a right. I warn you that you will have poverty – when pensions slip and benefits are whittled away by a government that won’t pay in an economy that can't pay. I warn you that you will be cold – when fuel charges are used as a tax system that the rich don't notice and the poor can't afford.
I warn you that you must not expect work – when many cannot spend, more will not be able to earn. When they don't earn, they don't spend. When they don't spend, work dies. I warn you not to go into the streets alone after dark or into the streets in large crowds of protest in the light. I warn you that you will be quiet – when the curfew of fear and the gibbet of unemployment make you obedient. I warn you that you will have defence of a sort – with a risk and at a price that passes all understanding. I warn you that you will be home-bound – when fares and transport bills kill leisure and lock you up. I warn you that you will borrow less – when credit, loans, mortgages and easy payments are refused to people on your melting income.
If Margaret Thatcher wins on Thursday, I warn you not to be ordinary. I warn you not to be young. I warn you not to fall ill. I warn you not to get old.

....do you think he called it right? - looking at the state we're in now.....I'd say so!

by Tosh Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:59 pm

There was no “economic mess”, more like poor industrial relations because the unions wouldn’t accept Callaghan’s 5% cap on pay rises.

And why would the unions not accept 5%, because inflation was in double digits, why was inflation in double digits, because we were up to our neck in debt.

When you are trading at a loss, it s called an economic mess.

by **Phil Hornby** Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:02 pm

At Their Poignant Final Meeting...

Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 9 DC5CA49236E47E3A9F22FBDFF33864

" That tea tasted a bit strange ...er.. Derek is it..?."

" Just a touch of rat poison you bossy old trout, but not sure how long it takes to work..."

by sampbang Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:45 pm

I created a Poll on my blog, asking "Was Thatcher Good or Bad for Britain?"

Current Results:

Bad 90.3% (1304 Votes)
Good 7.48% (108 votes)
Undecided 2.22% (32 votes)

http://sampb.co.uk/politics/poll-was-thatcher-good-or-bad-for-britain/

(Hope it's OK to post this here)

by **astradt1** Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:22 pm

Cameron " Margaret Thatcher, Greatest Peace Time British Prime-minister"

Didn't she take us to war over the Falkland Islands?

Why is she being given a Military Funeral?

by oftenwrong Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:40 pm

"Why is she being given a Military Funeral?"

Perhaps someone thinks it might be a good idea to direct a 21-gun salute broadside into the catafalque, just to make sure!

by **Ivan** Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:55 pm

“Thatcher was a terror without an atom of humanity.”
(Morrissey)

"Thatcher did more damage to the North East than Hitler.”
(Dave Hopper, Durham Miners’ Association)

"All Thatcher had was a load of prejudices strung together as policy."
(Alexi Sayle)

“Every real problem we face today is the legacy of the fact Thatcher was fundamentally wrong.”
(Ken Livingstone)

“Privatise Thatcher’s funeral. Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest bid; it’s what she would have wanted.”
(Ken Loach)

“This is not a time for celebration. The death of Margaret Thatcher is nothing more than a salient reminder of how Britain got into the mess we are in today. Of why ordinary people are no longer able to earn enough from one job to support a family; of why there is a shortage of decent affordable housing; of why domestic growth is driven by credit, not by real incomes; of why taxpayers are forced to top up wages; of why a spiteful government seeks to penalise the poor for having an extra bedroom; of why Rupert Murdoch became so powerful; of why cynicism and greed became the hallmarks of our society.”
(Billy Bragg)

Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 9 Proxy

Thatcher changed Britain for the worse - Page 9 Proxy

Source: Steve Bell, 'The Guardian'

by blueturando Tue Apr 09, 2013 12:47 am

LOL Ivan...what a fine upstanding bunch of champagne socialists quoters you spew up

by **Ivan** Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:15 am

blueturando. Oh well, that's it then. If you've decided with a characteristically lazy soundbite that the secretary of the Durham miners is a "champagne socialist", then that obviously nullifies his views. We're obviously supposed to accept your crap that the friend of Pinochet and Savile who destroyed 17% of our manufacturing in less than three years, squandered £70 billion of North Sea oil revenue and £60 billion of privatisation receipts, while destroying local democracy and our social housing stock, was "the saviour of our country". No, Billy Bragg's assessment of her legacy says a lot more than your fawning drivel.

by boatlady Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:34 am

Ivan
I would endorse every word you've quoted above - often I'm prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt on the economy - i.e. she meant well but basically didn't know what she was doing - I will never forgive the warmongering bitch for the Falklands war - a completely unneccesary bloodletting, cynically entered into for votes.
And I'm not a 'champagne socialist'

by bobby Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:03 am

I woke up this morning thinking I had a dream that The Bitch Thatcher had snuffed it. What a relief when I turned on the news to find that she is dead, Morte, Kaput no more to take the only thing the poor get free, the air they breath.

by oftenwrong Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:58 am

"Greedy Landlords" figure almost daily in these commentaries, but require a prefix "Right To Buy Greedy Landlords" to explain both their provenance and prevalence.

by Guest Tue Apr 09, 2013 3:13 pm

Thatcher's war: The Falklands
By Paul Reynolds
Former BBC correspondent

It was instructive listening and injected a dose of reality into the fantasies we had at odd moments entertained that the British government would not fight.

From her comments about the need to restore British sovereignty and her refusal to negotiate anything close to what the Argentine junta might accept (leaseback, a fixed term before a handover, shared rule, a UN protectorate), we knew that war was coming.

"We have to recover those islands," she said. "We have to recover them for the people on them are British and British stock and they still owe allegiance to the crown and want to be British."

The Falkland Islands may have been a couple of barren rocks inhabited mainly by sheep to some observers (President Reagan among them) but to Mrs Thatcher they were a British outpost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10377114

“Be pleased to inform Her Majesty that the White Ensign flies alongside the Union Flag in South Georgia. God Save the Queen.”
http://youtube.googleapis.com/v/rGxsLbK9F0A

by Tosh Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:07 pm

I remember reading that the islanders were in the process of losing their full British citizenship, and then the Argies invaded, maybe they should have waited, most Brits were complaining about the cost of the dump.

I didn't even know they existed, I thought the Argies had invaded some remote Scottish islands which baffled me at the time.

by **Ivan** Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:16 pm

Thatcher had been trying to offload the Falklands in 1980 to save money. As this video says: "She used the lives of our brave servicemen to win herself a general election. 255 British were killed in the conflict. More than that number have committed suicide since."

YouTube

by Guest Tue Apr 09, 2013 4:42 pm

Falkland Islands
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The population, estimated at 2,841, primarily consists of native Falkland Islanders, the vast majority being of British descent. Other ethnicities include French, Gibraltarian, and Scandinavian. Immigration from the United Kingdom, Saint Helena, and Chile has reversed a former population decline. The predominant and official language is English. Under the British Nationality Act of 1983, Falkland Islanders are legally British citizens.

The Falkland Islands took their English name from "Falkland Sound", the channel between the two main islands, which was in turn named after Anthony Cary, 5th Viscount of Falkland, by Captain John Strong, who landed on the islands in 1690.^[7]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands

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