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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

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Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Ivanhoe on Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

Through the Thatcher Major, years, millions of British people were made poor as a matter of policy, while others got rich as a matter of policy.

Blair and Brown embraced Thatcherism due to the change in the British, and now Milliband wants to change Labour again due to a changed Britain.

I personally long for a political party that sticks to it's core values, that has conviction, that does not change itself to suit a greedy selfish uncaring British populas who'se only thought is "self". In my view this "self" is mainly among the British middle classes.

Thatcher changed Britain for the worse, and now we are reaping through this dreadful coalition, what has been sown.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:09 am

What democracy? Unelected head of state, unelected upper house, an extreme right-wing Tory Party, which lied its way into power with the support of just 36% of those who bothered to vote, forcing through policies for which it has no mandate.

It is still a democratic system and our elected representatives obviously have a mandate.


A true democracy would involve real power for all those local councils emasculated by Thatcher, along with worker representation in every board room.

Workers representatives are not elected by the public, and councils are responsible to our elected house of representatives, Parliament. No more lunatics like Derek Hatton thank you very much.

Trade union leaders, were and are, elected by thousands of members. Even your narrow view of democracy is threatened by the unelected corporations that have been handed many of the assets of this country, firstly by Thatcher and now by her Bullingdon Club children.

Trade Union leaders like corporate bosses are not elected by the public, which part of democracy do you not understand ?

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:12 am

According to Ivan the head of the Masons, the R&A and any other elected official should be given a mandate to govern the general public.

Its just ludicrous.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by tlttf on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:43 am

oop's made an independent remark, no wonder Ivan is getting upset, "mustn't upset the applecart" written 100 times before I'm mightily admonished by the screaming left footers.

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Mel on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:54 am

Why are you not at the funeral Tosh???

Quote--"In hindsight our economic well being relied too much on the proceeds of the financial service sector "

Indeed Tosh, thanks to your beloved Witch and Raegan de-regulating banking sectors.

"People seem to forget that it was German'y surplus that prevented a manufacturing crash in their economy, their surplus enabled them to support their industry"

Thatcher could have done the same with North Sea Oil revenues to assist and help modernise our manufacturing base, instead of crushing it and making us so reliable upon invisible earnings.

"In reality we are going through a suppressed depression, a slow and painful process of reducing debt to the deflated value of assets"

The answer is to borrow at the cheap rates available to this government to build infrastructure, this will create the growth that we need.
But oh no!!! the barstuards prefer to hit all those hard with severe austerity measures other than their own wealthy kind which is doing no more than completing their mean ideology rather than making growth a priority.
Politics put first before the majority of people and even the country as a democtatic major world player
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Mel on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:57 am

It never ceases to amaze me when Tory voters facing defeat come out pretending to be "independant"
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by bobby on Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:02 pm

Hiya Landy. You’ve got my ead all fuzzled with that one.
I can't for the life of me think why the Unions would go out and illegally remove refuse in order to give the Conservative more bullets to shoot back at them, and how come all the footage shown was on anti Labour broadcasts. Your not telling me that the Unions not only went out to remove said refuse illegally, then gave all the film to Thatcher’s opposition party.
Another point is, when you place your refuse out for collection it becomes the property of the Council, so If the Unions where repeatedly breaking the law by the theft of the Councils refuse, why didn’t the council take legal action, as you say “Strangely enough bobby that was happening all over the country” so if that was the case why did the councils let them get away with it, surely they would have got much better publicity had the Unions been taken to court with an accompanying smear campaign. Sorry mate but the Tory shits where simply doing what they do best, Lieing and cheating.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Mel on Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:21 pm

James Silcocks said: "Breaking News: George Osborne cries on TV in a cynical attempt to trick voters into thinking he's capable of human emotion and compassion."

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/458201/20130417/george-osborne-crying-pictures-twitter-mockery-laughing.htm

Several repoerts of the little git laughing his prat faced head off just before the service. Just another Cameron type CON.

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by astradt1 on Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:02 pm

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:27 pm

QUOTE Tosh: "The lesson to be learned is the biggest threat to democracy and freedom is debt."

An unexpected observation to come from a Businessman. Was yours a business conducted entirely with Cash? Did you not have monthly accounts from your Suppliers, and did you not allow your customers 30 days in which to pay?

Without Credit (and therefore obviously DEBT) how many e.g. Motor-cars/White-goods/Electronics would be sold?

Answers on the reverse of a postage stamp.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:18 pm

Cut!

Makeup !!

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:15 pm

An unexpected observation to come from a Businessman. Was yours a business conducted entirely with Cash? Did you not have monthly accounts from your Suppliers, and did you not allow your customers 30 days in which to pay? Without Credit (and therefore obviously DEBT) how many e.g. Motor-cars/White-goods/Electronics would be sold?

I see your knowledge of business is non existent, credit is not synonymous with debt unless the credit is unsecured, no businessman gives or receives credit without security, credit is secured against assets. If a company is left with a bad debt then the owner failed to secure the credit.

Our credit system became a debt system.


Last edited by Tosh on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Phil Hornby on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:33 pm

Coming next week : 'Why Accountancy can be Fun'
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:54 pm

The answer is to borrow at the cheap rates available to this government to build infrastructure, this will create the growth that we need.

If you borrow more, the cheap rates disappear and you have high inflation, inflation reduces the value of money and increases costs, not a good combination for growth.

Blair and Brown played all our Keynesian cards, and lost, now its time to pay for the losses.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:02 pm

Why are you not at the funeral Tosh???

Christine thought it best if I stay here and keep an eye on you lot.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:30 pm

" credit is not synonymous with debt unless the credit is unsecured, no businessman gives or receives credit without security, credit is secured against assets."

When ignornce is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise.

Only Banks and Mortgagors normally have Security for their lending.

If an individual or corporate body falls insolvent, its business debts are nearly always described as "unsecured".

Surprised you didn't know that, Tosh. Pleased you were lucky.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:36 am

If an individual or corporate body falls insolvent, its business debts are nearly always described as "unsecured".

I am surprised you invent guff to save face, it is now becoming glaringly obvious you haven't a clue what you are talking about, no company receives or is given credit without a credit check, and its the security of the credit that is being checked. Therefore as I keep repeating, credit only becomes debt if it is unsecured, try and get a business loan without security and you will discover the difference.

Britain is borrowing from a credit card just to pay the minimum charge on the card, and in anyone's language this is DEBT with a capital D, since one cannot service the credit and it is unsecured it is safe to say we are up to our necks in debt, and you want to increase the debt !!



Try again.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Mel on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:08 am

Wrong yet again Tosh.

Borrowing by the government at very low rates if interest would not mean "cheap rates would dosapear" on the contrary they would stay the same.
The affect would not bring about a serious inflation situation.

The thirties in Germany is an example. Hitler borrowed to build infrastructure and massive arms production. Growth became prolific and inflation disapeared.

Whilst fannying around with Tory ideolical austerity measures, with Gideon and con man Dave pretending that this will bring growth, thousands are suffering, the rich are getting richer and growth is non existant.
Total Tory policy as intended.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Mel on Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:11 am

"Christine thought it best if I stay here and keep an eye on you lot."

No doubt the good lady feels that the forum keeps you out of her hair. She has my sympathy. Very Happy Rolling Eyes
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:29 am

Tosh wrote:
If an individual or corporate body falls insolvent, its business debts are nearly always described as "unsecured".

I am surprised you invent guff to save face, it is now becoming glaringly obvious you haven't a clue what you are talking about, no company receives or is given credit without a credit check, and its the security of the credit that is being checked. Therefore as I keep repeating, credit only becomes debt if it is unsecured, try and get a business loan without security and you will discover the difference.

Britain is borrowing from a credit card just to pay the minimum charge on the card, and in anyone's language this is DEBT with a capital D, since one cannot service the credit and it is unsecured it is safe to say we are up to our necks in debt, and you want to increase the debt !!



Try again.


Try again, Tosh? I don't think I can be bothered. It's your misunderstanding. If you don't know the difference between "secured lending" and "unsecured credit" either inform yourself or confirm my belief that there's a bit of the Walter Mitty emerging from your postings.

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:35 pm

Try again, Tosh? I don't think I can be bothered. It's your misunderstanding. If you don't know the difference between "secured lending" and "unsecured credit" either inform yourself or confirm my belief that there's a bit of the Walter Mitty emerging from your postings.

You can't be bothered proving me wrong because you cannot,and you can waffle all the pretentious nonsense you want, you are the one claiming there is no difference between credit and debt not me. I know there is a difference and that difference is called security, ie. the means to pay it back.

Its very simple, if you get credit of 20k on assets of 100k then you are not in debt.

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Ivan on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:28 pm

Tosh wrote:-
The lesson to be learned is the biggest threat to democracy and freedom is debt
Utter rubbish. We had debt three times as large as now after the Second World War and we had our best government ever, building new towns and housing estates and setting up the NHS. The biggest threat to democracy is when right-wing governments take state assets out of parliamentary control and hand them over to corporations, as this government is busy doing – Mussolini defined that as fascism.

Are you seriously suggesting the unions were blameless for the state of our industrial relations and our economy?
No. I’ve never said they were blameless for the state of industrial relations, but they didn’t cause the quadrupling of oil prices by the Arab states. Trade unions exist to fight for the interests of their members. When inflation is 10%, a 5% pay ceiling is a cut in real wages, and it’s quite understandable that they decided to resist that.

It is still a democratic system and our elected representatives obviously have a mandate.
For all its imperfections, the USA has an elected Head of State, an elected Senate and an elected House of Representatives. We elect only one-third of our legislature, and that’s under a quirky system where a party that 64% of the electorate voted against can pursue policies like the destruction of the NHS for which nobody opted. People who voted for a left-wing Liberal Democrat manifesto in 2010 weren't voting for the most right-wing government in modern times. Nobody was asked to vote for a five-year fixed term parliament either; this government does not have a mandate.

Workers representatives are not elected by the public…..Trade Union leaders like corporate bosses are not elected by the public, which part of democracy do you not understand?
Nobody said they were. I said that trade unions represent a lot more people than private corporations.

Councils are responsible to our elected house of representatives, Parliament. No more lunatics like Derek Hatton thank you very much.
That’s one thing which Thatcher changed when she was undermining democracy and freedom. Councils are supposed to be responsible to the local people who elect them, not be rubber stamps for Westminster. If the people of Liverpool wanted to elect Derek Hatton, that was their business. How strange that you cite that example and not Thatcher’s favourite local politician, the criminal Dame Shirley Porter. Clearly you thought it was okay for a dictator like Thatcher to close down councils just because she didn't like who the voters had elected. Nice of you to confirm that you don't support democracy at all when it comes down to it.

According to Ivan the head of the Masons, the R&A and any other elected official should be given a mandate to govern the general public.
Ivan said nothing of the sort. Kindly pay attention to the details and stop putting words into my mouth.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Mel on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:30 pm

"called security, ie. the means to pay it back."

No no no Tosh!!!!

Lending principals and guidlines----- "No amount of secuity makes any proposal for credit/loan viable, as the ability to repay is of paramount importance"
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Ivan on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:48 pm

Mel wrote:-
No doubt the good lady feels that the forum keeps you out of her hair. She has my sympathy.
I think you’ve misunderstood. Tosh is referring to Commander Christine Jones, the Head of the Metropolitan Police, who was considering arresting in dawn raids yesterday potential troublemakers who had done nothing wrong. I did put the kettle on at 5am in case she wanted a cuppa, but she didn’t turn up with her door breaching tool after all. Maybe she went after bigger fish like Phil Hornby and oftenwrong…. Shocked

Tosh appointed himself to the role of keeping an eye for Ms Jones on all of the dangerous armchair revolutionaries at Cutting Edge. Perhaps my front door should be grateful to him for saving it from a battering! Or maybe I'm just deluding myself as much as Tosh is.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Mel on Thu Apr 18, 2013 2:58 pm

Oh that bitch!!! Christine. No doubt she was acting upon instructions from either Boris or raving Dave..... Thatcher's children at work.

If old Tosh does happen to have a good lady, then I still feel sorry for her. Who wouldn't? Very Happy
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:14 pm

Lending principals and guidlines----- "No amount of security makes any proposal for credit/loan viable, as the ability to repay is of paramount importance"

Mel....Mel....Mel....we are discussing the difference between credit and debt, tell me how this makes them both one and the same, and how this applies to us since we cannot afford to pay our debts and have to borrow more to meet our debt payments ?

We owe more than we earn, that is debt not credit.




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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Ivan on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:22 pm

we are discussing the difference between credit and debt
.....whereas we should be discussing how Thatcher changed Britain for the worse. Please get back on topic.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:37 pm

Utter rubbish. We had debt three times as large as now after the Second World War and we had our best government ever, building new towns and housing estates and setting up the NHS.

You consider a recession comparable to a WORLD WAR, we had to spend more than we earned because of a national emergency, you are suggesting we spend more than we earn as a matter of domestic economic policy !

Your solution to our debt crisis is more debt, and that is economic bonkers.



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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:39 pm

.....whereas we should be discussing how Thatcher changed Britain for the worse. Please get back on topic.

How many days are now lost on strikes ?

THE DEFENCE RESTS.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Phil Hornby on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:41 pm

"THE DEFENCE RESTS".


Don't think we're not grateful for small mercies! Very Happy
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:43 pm

Councils are supposed to be responsible to the local people who elect them, not be rubber stamps for Westminster.

We are all responsible to one authority, Parliament, a council has no authority to undermine Parliament.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:48 pm

Trade unions exist to fight for the interests of their members.

And when those interests conflict with the public interest, such as closing loss making industries ?

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:36 pm

That hole which Tosh is digging for himself should soon be large enough to accommodate his hat size.

in step
1. Moving in rhythm.
2. In conformity with one's environment: in step with the times.
out of step
1. Not moving in rhythm: marching out of step.
2. Not in conformity with one's environment: out of step with the times.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/step

Thatcher was not always in harmony with her contemporaries either.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:27 pm

That hole which Tosh is digging for himself should soon be large enough to accommodate his hat size.

If you don't know the difference between "secured lending" and "unsecured credit"

Its your spade mate, not mine, you are the one saying there is no difference, wanna try on my hat for size ?
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:06 pm

We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig in our mine the whole day through
To dig dig dig dig dig dig dig is what we really like to do
It ain't no trick to get rich quick
If you dig dig dig with a shovel or a pick
In a mine! In a mine! In a mine! In a mine!
Where a million diamonds shine!

We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig from early morn till night
We dig dig dig dig dig dig dig up everything in sight
We dig up diamonds by the score
A thousand rubies, sometimes more
But we don't know what we dig 'em for
We dig dig dig a-dig dig

Heigh-ho, Heigh-ho

(Whistle) http://fpx.de/fp/Disney/Lyrics/SnowWhite.html

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:21 am

Very appropriate, Dopey.

regards Doc.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by skwalker1964 on Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:31 pm

Tosh wrote:
.....whereas we should be discussing how Thatcher changed Britain for the worse. Please get back on topic.

How many days are now lost on strikes ?

Not nearly enough..
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Fri Apr 19, 2013 1:02 pm

Not nearly enough..

Another relic trapped in a time warp.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by blueturando on Fri Apr 19, 2013 4:09 pm

Come on Tosh....that's the lefts idea of getting the UK economy on track

Strike more, get less competetive, more costly, higher inflation & interest rates...IMF Bailout. It in the Lefts manifesto Tosh...come on mate get with the programme Smile

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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:07 pm

Blue,

This thread is certainly an eye-opener, its as if the free market doesn't exist, Britain can do what it wants and if inflation goes up then wages must go up, and we export less and borrow more and inflation goes up and increase wages etc etc etc.

Insanity.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by Tosh on Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:26 pm

Debt is good because we buy washing machines on credit. :affraid:
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

Post by oftenwrong on Fri Apr 19, 2013 5:42 pm

Debt is good because we buy washing machines on credit.
.... and the people who sell washing machines are not a burden on the State.

Neither are the Road Carriers who distribute said washing machines. Likewise the advertising agencies that encourage the Public to purchase such machines, and the Media that earn money from advertising (including all their employees), the Retailers, and the Financiers who make easy terms available.

The only entity not benefitting from the sale of goods on credit terms is the miserable git standing on the sidelines bitching about something which they don't understand.

Somebody will no doubt tell me if I HAVE NOT MADE MYSELF CLEAR.
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Re: Thatcher changed Britain for the worse

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