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Can God love? (Part 1)

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Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:40 pm

First topic message reminder :

Can God love?

We are told that the mythical bible God is love or the epitome of love.

Archetypal Jesus said that we would know his people by the love, deeds and actions they showed others.

Jesus gave us examples of the deeds and works. Feed the poor, love all our neighbours, do not sin and many others.

Love then, seems to Jesus, to be something that must be shown by deeds, actions and works to be alive and true love. Love, like faith, without works is dead. Both St. James and Jesus agree on this.

It follows then that if God is not doing something to show this love then the love for man expressed in scriptures is wrong and God cannot love.

You are in the image of God. When you love someone you show them that love by works and deeds. This is how the recipient of that love knows it is there and that allows for reciprocity.  You will agree that without reciprocity, true love cannot exist between two individuals. We must do things for each other for true love to exist.

Imagine what those you love would think if you never did anything to express your love. Imagine what you would think of the love of others towards you if they never did anything to show they loved you.  See what I mean. Love always must have deeds to be real and true and reciprocity must be at play.

Love then has no choice but to be expressed if it is true love.

We are told that God loved his son so much that he planned to have him sacrificed even before the earth was created. This human sacrifice or any other human sacrifice, voluntary or not, is immoral and the notion that it is good to sacrifice an innocent victim to give the guilty believers a free ride into heaven is a completely self-gratifying notion and is completely immoral. One does not show love for someone by having them sacrificed for the sins of others when God himself stated that we are all responsible for our own salvation and cannot put that responsibility of the shoulders of a scapegoat Jesus.

Does love need deeds and works to be expressed?

Have you seen God express his love for us lately?

Regards
DL

These following speak to this issue if you wish to view them.

[youtube]



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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Ivan on Tue May 08, 2012 3:58 pm

If you say you cannot help this that and the other what about a rapist a drug addict, a child abuser, stock answer, they have a choice, reply so does everyone else including lesbians.
polyglide. You’re the person who keeps bringing sex into this debate. Not content with having driven one person off the forum, you’re now trying to equate lesbians with criminals. So for the second time you are in breach of our forum rules, which can be found here:-
http://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t18-posting-rules#95

Your membership of this forum is suspended for 24 hours in order that the four moderators and global moderator can consider whether further sanctions are appropriate. Ivan.

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by oftenwrong on Tue May 08, 2012 5:52 pm

This forum has already reached a consensus that a major preoccupation of all religions seems to be with sex.

(aide memoire:
Should sex education just consist of telling teenagers to abstain?
by Shirina on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:14 pm
It's even funnier how it seems like one cannot talk about anything sexual without religion being included.)


No surprise that it should also be a major preoccupation of a religious debater.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Adele Carlyon on Tue May 08, 2012 6:02 pm

I believe in evolution 100%

It's just a pity that some people don't actually evolve! Polyglide should be banned for good IMO. There, I said it! His predjudice and negativity really bring me down and i end up avoiding threads that he spews venom on! Crying or Very sad
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Tue May 08, 2012 8:23 pm

sickchip wrote:Can God love?

Can a vague, and undefined, concept experience a vague, and undefined, concept?

Possibly or possibly not.



Is this the most meaningless thread on these boards? Possibly! Possibly not!

It is unfortunate that love is not a defined reality for you.

My sympathies.

Regards
DL
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Tue May 08, 2012 8:28 pm

oftenwrong wrote:"No longer is the welfare of the child the overarching focus."

That may be a trend in "Western" society, but continuous TV coverage of famine in Africa shows women trekking miles across desert in search of food for their families.

Yes. And the last documentary I saw was a tribe where men forced the women to walk 7 miles a day for water while they did nothing.

I think women are held back by stupid men.

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DL
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Tue May 08, 2012 8:38 pm

oftenwrong wrote:This forum has already reached a consensus that a major preoccupation of all religions seems to be with sex.

(aide memoire:
Should sex education just consist of telling teenagers to abstain?
by Shirina on Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:14 pm
It's even funnier how it seems like one cannot talk about anything sexual without religion being included.)


No surprise that it should also be a major preoccupation of a religious debater.

As it should be. For everyone. Believer or not.

Both religions and secular governments work hard at teaching that we are to control our passions if we are to live in harmony.

Sex is said to be our number one passion, next to chocolate for women of course, but still number one. I hope that the mods allow sex into play bounce but agree fully that criminality, except where warranted, should not enter the forum.

Regards
DL
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by sickchip on Wed May 09, 2012 9:59 am

Greatest I am wrote:
sickchip wrote:Can God love?

Can a vague, and undefined, concept experience a vague, and undefined, concept?

Possibly or possibly not.



Is this the most meaningless thread on these boards? Possibly! Possibly not!

It is unfortunate that love is not a defined reality for you.

My sympathies.

Regards
DL

Try asking ten different people what love is, what it means - and see if you get ten answers the same. Love means different things for different people. It is a vague, and undefined, concept. I haven't said it doesn't exist, or that I haven't experienced what I believe to be love.

It's a pity you're so narrow minded.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Wed May 09, 2012 5:40 pm

The question asks you opinion not that of ten other people.

Regards
DL
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by sickchip on Wed May 09, 2012 6:06 pm

GIa

....so what is the definitive definition of love. What is love? Give us a precise definition please.

Would god love football, music, sex, an individual, the vatican, another god, a mcdonald's burger...
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Wed May 09, 2012 7:25 pm

sickchip wrote:GIa

....so what is the definitive definition of love. What is love? Give us a precise definition please.

Would god love football, music, sex, an individual, the vatican, another god, a mcdonald's burger...

If I have to define love for you, then we will never be able to discuss it.

The O P states basically that love is what love does. More or less.

If you need more then you have a whole library of book to choose from to learn from.

You can start here though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JP7SPJllNoc

Regards
DL
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by oftenwrong on Wed May 09, 2012 7:28 pm

The ultimate put-down refuses to be put down.

"If you have to ask the question, you won't understand the answer"
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by sickchip on Wed May 09, 2012 8:17 pm

GIa

You're are still missing the point here, along with ow, it would appear. You seem to think I'm asking you to define love for my personal benefit It's a broader question - and frankly your

The O P states basically that love is what love does. More or less.

...simply proves my initial point that it is a vague, undefined concept; and means different things to different people.

So...I will throw the two conundrums together again; and ask what exactly is this thread is meant to be discussing

Can God love?

Can a vague, and undefined, concept experience a vague, and undefined, concept?

Possibly or possibly not.



Is this the most meaningless thread on these boards? Possibly! Possibly not!
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Wed May 09, 2012 8:23 pm

This thread is to discuss the delusion that Christians live under that their God is a loving God.

Regards
DL
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Guest on Wed May 09, 2012 8:58 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
This thread is to discuss the delusion that Christians live under that their God is a loving God.

The thread topic:


Can God love?

The thread topic is not “to discuss the delusion that Christians live under that their God is a loving God”; rather, the thread topic is a specific question, “Can God love?”

John, an apostle of Y’shua bar Yosef, called Y’shua Moshicah, Hebrew translated to Greek transliterated/anglicized into English as Jesus the Christ, answers the specific question.


… love is from God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God … God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us… not that we loved God, but that He loved us… His love is perfected in us.

God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. We love, because He first loved us.

1 John 4:7-12, 16, 19
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by sickchip on Thu May 10, 2012 11:46 am

What is God? What is love?
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Thu May 10, 2012 12:17 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Greatest I am wrote:
This thread is to discuss the delusion that Christians live under that their God is a loving God.

The thread topic:


Can God love?

The thread topic is not “to discuss the delusion that Christians live under that their God is a loving God”; rather, the thread topic is a specific question, “Can God love?”

John, an apostle of Y’shua bar Yosef, called Y’shua Moshicah, Hebrew translated to Greek transliterated/anglicized into English as Jesus the Christ, answers the specific question.


… love is from God, and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God … God is love. By this the love of God was manifested in us… not that we loved God, but that He loved us… His love is perfected in us.

God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. We love, because He first loved us.

1 John 4:7-12, 16, 19

And how does he express this love? Not in any way I can see.
What do you see that enforces your opinion?
Facts are good.

Regards
DL
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Thu May 10, 2012 12:18 pm

sickchip wrote:What is God? What is love?

In a word, God is-----

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDbesQQi9yc

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Guest on Thu May 10, 2012 6:09 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
And how does he express this love? Not in any way I can see.

Then your vision is clouded. If you should choose to sufficiently discipline yourself to study with me, perhaps your vision will clear and you will see many ways in which YHVH Elohim expresses agape.

Greatest I am wrote:
What do you see that enforces your opinion?
Facts are good.

Regards
DL

My “opinion” is irrelevant. YHVH Elohim’s love is fact.

I remain your servant in the LORD God YHVH Elohim and his beloved son Y’shua bar Yosef, called Y’shua Moshiach, as I await your disciplined participation in joint study of the first seven words of Torah, “B’r’shyth bara Elohim et hashamayim ve’et ha’arets”, “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth”, Genesis 1:1.

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by sickchip on Thu May 10, 2012 6:31 pm

If you should choose to sufficiently discipline yourself to study

I'm sure most folk have got better things to do, and more to worry about, than wasting their time studying fairy tales.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Guest on Thu May 10, 2012 6:38 pm

sickchip wrote:
If you should choose to sufficiently discipline yourself to study

I'm sure…

I’m not.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by astradt1 on Thu May 10, 2012 6:44 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
sickchip wrote:
If you should choose to sufficiently discipline yourself to study

I'm sure…

I’m not.

Again selective in choice of bits of a post responded to......

So Roc you feel that people do not "have better things to do, and more to worry about, than wasting their time studying fairy tales."

What a quiet peaceful and priviledged life you must lead...Most people I know are too busy worring about how to pay their bill to think about god.......
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by sickchip on Thu May 10, 2012 6:57 pm

What you not sure about, Roc?
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Guest on Thu May 10, 2012 7:09 pm

sickchip wrote:
What you not sure about, Roc?

I’m not sure that most folks have better things to do than studying YHVH Elohim, the Author, Creator, Owner, and Sovereign of all that is, was, and ever will be, the eternal (thus pre-existent), incomprehensible, causative power by which all existence exists.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by trevorw2539 on Fri May 11, 2012 1:11 pm

sickchip wrote: If you should choose to sufficiently discipline yourself to study

I'm sure most folk have got better things to do, and more to worry about, than wasting their time studying fairy tales.

It's amazing how much you can learn from studying 'fairy tales'. It takes all sorts of people with all sorts of interests to inhabit this world. I have learnt much about Ancient Mesopotamia, it's cultures, creation myths by taking the Bible as a base and spreading out from there. Still that's my interest and as I'm retired I have time to do it. You are what you are today because of the past, including ancient civili Embarassed Embarassed sations and their science, which are often the base of our sciences today.


Last edited by trevorw2539 on Fri May 11, 2012 1:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by sickchip on Fri May 11, 2012 1:36 pm

Trev,

I would have thought my 'fairytales' comment would have been received as a facetious, and derogatory remark about the bible - as I intended it to be.

Sorry if I assume posters to be intelligent enough to recognise a barbed comment.

And yes - fairytales can be quite interesting.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 2:20 pm

"CAN GOD LOVE"




does he REALLY have to?
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by sickchip on Fri May 11, 2012 2:27 pm

"CAN GOD LOVE"


...let's hope he puts a condom on if he does - we wouldn't want lots of little gods running around would we?
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by astra on Fri May 11, 2012 2:39 pm

Plenty 'Gods' running round now

Well they think they are


Look at the situation in America - all those so called Godly pasters.
Are they dooing that for the conviction of their belief?
Are they doing that because they can do nothing else?

HEY

This pastering lark provides money for the family, standing in the community
and a great standard of living. Everyone should be a paster!!

Dianne Abbott MP once said - "being an MP is such a clean, well paid job, every one should be one"


From the mouths of the comfortable
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by trevorw2539 on Fri May 11, 2012 2:41 pm

sickchip quote
Sorry if I assume posters to be intelligent enough to recognise a barbed comment.
Another 'barbed' comment?. Smile

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Fri May 11, 2012 4:19 pm

astra wrote:"CAN GOD LOVE"




does he REALLY have to?

Not logically.
That would show a need. Bible God has no needs. omni jerks have whatever they want.

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by oftenwrong on Fri May 11, 2012 8:00 pm

Can God love?

That verb "can" is a real problem for teachers of English as a foreign language, since it does not follow the grammatical rules of carrying "to.." in the infinitive. The alternatives "may" and "might" are similar rogues that do not exist in the conventional form "to may" or "to might".

The meaning can be conveyed equally precisely by the cumbersome, "Is capable of ..." but why did the Author of this thread choose "Can" at all in the question, unless it was with the intention of being deliberately pejorative?

A simple modification to e.g. "DOES God love?" invites discussion without premeditating a collision. But that wouldn't be so much fun, would it, Monsieur?
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Fri May 11, 2012 8:55 pm

Mais non.

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Tue May 15, 2012 3:20 pm

If you start asking is there such a thing as love, then you have to start considering all the other options, is there such a thing as hate, longing, desire, ill feeling, depression etc; the list is endless.

Love is accepted by many as a feeling of overwhelming goodwill which manifests itself in many ways towards many things, it is a feeling of complete harmony with that which is involved and is one of the most potent and desirable feelings there is.

Of course those who have never experienced it would not know.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Tue May 15, 2012 3:33 pm

polyglide wrote:If you start asking is there such a thing as love, then you have to start considering all the other options, is there such a thing as hate, longing, desire, ill feeling, depression etc; the list is endless.

Love is accepted by many as a feeling of overwhelming goodwill which manifests itself in many ways towards many things, it is a feeling of complete harmony with that which is involved and is one of the most potent and desirable feelings there is.

Of course those who have never experienced it would not know.

No doubt and no argument.

Your key phrase is "which manifests itself in many ways "

If God loves us, he would do just that yet we do not see him doing it.

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Tue May 15, 2012 5:03 pm

I feel very strongly about the blasphemy allowed on this site, as a unreserved believer in God and creation I find it particulary unacceptable to see posts that ridicule my beliefs in the most repugnant manner and I feel it should be stopped.

There is a vast difference between not agreeing with something and dealiong in blasphemy.

So perhaps the moderator could deal with this matter.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Tue May 15, 2012 5:33 pm

polyglide wrote:I feel very strongly about the blasphemy allowed on this site, as a unreserved believer in God and creation I find it particulary unacceptable to see posts that ridicule my beliefs in the most repugnant manner and I feel it should be stopped.

There is a vast difference between not agreeing with something and dealiong in blasphemy.

So perhaps the moderator could deal with this matter.

Blasphemy?
What blasphemy?

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Wed May 16, 2012 11:30 am

Just read the posts and then the meaning of blasphemy, if you then do not have the answer you should not be asking the quesion.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Shirina on Wed May 16, 2012 12:00 pm

I feel very strongly about the blasphemy allowed on this site, as a unreserved believer in God and creation I find it particulary unacceptable to see posts that ridicule my beliefs in the most repugnant manner and I feel it should be stopped.
Don't think for one nanosecond that I'm unaware of the game you're trying to play.

This isn't a Christian site. As such, we do not have forum rules regarding "blasphemy" ... nor will there ever be.

You are not God. Therefore, you cannot be offended on his behalf and expect us to take action pursuant to this issue. Setting such a precedent would ensure that no one could discuss anything more exciting than the weather and dinner menus. Imagine if a Tory supporter decided he was offended at all the remarks against Cameron? What if a Labour supporter made the same complaint against Tories? Where does it end? Well, it doesn't, so the best course of action is not to start in the first place.

If someone is insulting YOU directly, then let me know and I'll deal with them. But I'm not going to censor people for expressing their opinions on religion unless someone insults YOU for being a Christian.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by Greatest I am on Wed May 16, 2012 4:49 pm

polyglide wrote:Just read the posts and then the meaning of blasphemy, if you then do not have the answer you should not be asking the quesion.

I do not see it and thanks for chastising without correction.
Typical show of Christian cruelty.

Do you also beat your children without telling them why?

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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Thu May 17, 2012 4:18 pm

There is no love greater than that of a NORMAL parent towards their children.

But which NORMAL parent would not chastise their children to show right from wrong.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

Post by polyglide on Thu May 17, 2012 4:23 pm

Your reply to my quesion regarding blasphemy I could have written myself,
it is a great pity you are not consistant on the basis on which you replied,
throughout.

I have never in any post directly called anyone anything.
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Re: Can God love? (Part 1)

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