Is the NHS really safe in Tory hands?

by witchfinder Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:01 pm

First topic message reminder :

Here is a news item from North Yorkshire which never made it onto the national headlines

A York-based practice has written to its patients offering them a range of minor treatments privately, claiming they are not funded by the local NHS.

Doctors' leaders said this could be the start of a worrying trend due to the squeeze on finances and NHS overhaul.

The letter, seen by the BBC, said local health chiefs had stopped funding a range of services, but added they could still have them done privately at a number of clinics, including one owned by the practice.

These included removing skin tags from £56.30 to treating benign tumours for £243.20.

Dr Richard Vautrey, of the British Medical Association, added: "The dire finances of many trusts means that many more NHS treatments are likely to become unavailable in the future".

by **astradt1** Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:13 pm

NHS Reforms: David Cameron Insists He 'Does Not Care' If The Health And Social Care Bill Is Unpopular

David Cameron has said he does not care if he has to "take a hit" on the controversial health reforms, there is no going back.

Addressing the Conservative spring forum, the Prime Minister said the shake-up was "unavoidable and urgent".

However he sought to reassure party activists over the crucial doorstep election issue of the NHS reforms, saying that the National Health Service was "in the party's DNA and that's not going to change".

Mr Cameron chose a classical rally cry to appeal to Tory grassroots at the central London event, saying "fortune favours brave governments".

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So there you have it, the listening exercise was just paying lip service and the Tory leadership couldn't give a toss about what the rest of the country thinks......

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:13 pm

Well, that really is a surprise. Who could have anticipated that?
Dear Dear, completely unexpected.

by **Ivan** Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:46 am

Forty members of the House of Lords have private healthcare financial interests:-
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by Mel Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:07 am

Well well Ivan, surprise surprise. Who would heve thought that?

Perhaps the Daily Mail will make headlines of this, then again pigs might fly.

Corrupt to the core and brazen with it, as Camer-con and Co.

by oftenwrong Sun Mar 04, 2012 11:44 am

Cameron looks determined to put a "floor" under the cost of supermarket booze.
Lansley doesn't want that to happen. Why not? Isn't part of the reason to reduce the expense to the NHS every weekend night of treating drunks?

by **Ivan** Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:11 pm

Cameron's plan of 40p minimum per unit of alcohol would hike the price of cider, which probably isn't consumed by the Bullingdon Club. On the other hand, it wouldn't affect the price of either sauvignon blanc or champagne, because they already cost more than that per unit.

Isn't it good to know that "we're all in this together"? Crying or Very sad

by oftenwrong Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:01 pm

Right off topic (but it's the Administrator's fault - he started talking about wine) there's an amusing article in today's Sunday Times about micro-brewery pubs and CAMRA. One landlord, drawing pints from the barrel, said he served wine "for the ladies" but had stopped offering red and white because ladies had kept asking what sort of red wine it was. So now he only provides white. "I'm here to sell real ale", he said, "not to sell wine!"

by Mel Mon Mar 05, 2012 12:25 pm

Hello Ivan

If you or any other members care to take the trouble to google the following, you will find a the full results of the invstigation.-----

---NHS privatisation: Compilation of financial and vested interests.

The results are far worse than the the ones you kindly produced for us to read..

I am sending a copy to my local MP.

by bobby Mon Mar 05, 2012 4:56 pm

Well done Mel my friend. Immagination is nothing as great as the truth, when dealing with Tory's

by oftenwrong Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:13 pm

Polls record that David Cameron is more trusted than the Party of which he is the Leader.

Though probably our dog is more trustworthy than the Tory Party.

"George Osborne's comment that the UK had "run out of money" is completely and utterly untrue"

David Blanchflower, The Independent 05.03.2012

by astra Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:31 pm

"Lord Naseby: Conservative - Chairman of and a share-holder in Invesco Perpetual Recovery Trust. One fifth of their investments are in pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies.
Quotes on bill: 'I want to make it clear that I support the Bill. More importantly, I support the need for the Bill.'

'Finally, competition is good for any industry...Competition gives people pride and responsibility"

Mel, the above is a quote from your link, thanks

Tell me, Is your now privatised water, electricity, or gas man any happier
Does your now privatised bus driver show any more pride in his work? Railway worker then? forget about train drivers, I can answer that one - nyett!! simple!

I was never aware that the local Hospital was to be viewed as a factory!!!!!????? Question

"
"George Freeman -4d-biomedical.com which is a specialist adviser on Healthcare markets, Technology development, Business strategy & Venture financing, working with NHS trusts. Speaking in Parliament on 11 November 2010 during the Policy For Growth debate he said, "The third is the national health service. I know from my own experience that we are sitting on billions of pounds-worth of patient data. Let us think about how we can unlock the value of those data around the world." :pirat:

As our friend OW has often said - "Vultures and Meaty Bones!" Twisted Evil

by oftenwrong Mon Mar 05, 2012 5:40 pm

astra wrote:"Lord Naseby: Conservative - Chairman of and a share-holder in Invesco Perpetual Recovery Trust. One fifth of their investments are in pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies.
Quotes on bill: 'I want to make it clear that I support the Bill. More importantly, I support the need for the Bill.'

'Finally, competition is good for any industry...Competition gives people pride and responsibility"

One word of the above is totally unnecessary. The one beginning with "C", and ending in "e". The political affiliation of the speaker is perfectly clear from everything else.

by Mel Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:52 am

Lord Naseby--CON says-- "'Finally, competition is good for any industry...Competition gives people pride and responsibility"

Good for whom? is the real question. The public? not on your life!!!!

Good for getting companies together to FIX prices and rip off customers
for profit before service.

Private health care? pha!!!!. Virgin Bottomly (CON) director of BUPA.
If anyone is considering BUPA (CON) make sure you read the SMALL print.

"Pride and resposibility"? my ar5e!!!.

by **Ivan** Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:32 am

Yesterday Lansley went to London’s Royal Free Hospital (possibly to change its name to Royal Fee Hospital?). However, as the 'Camden New Journal' reporter Tom Foot noted: “Only one TV camera was allowed in, and no written or local press - on the orders of the Department of Health", so it’s remarkable that we know about the visit at all.

A doctor with thirty years' experience chased Lansley through the hospital, as this video from You Tube shows:-

Lansley tries to claim that doctors and nurses support him, so why does he ban journalists from covering his hospital visits? Don't politicians usually love publicity?

Perhaps the most chilling aspect of the story is that once again - just as when Cameron received a hostile reception at a hospital in Newcastle - the BBC left a story which is unfavourable to the Tories out of its news bulletins yesterday. It's only because of social media such as Twitter and You Tube that we are aware of this.

by Mel Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:40 am

Indeed Ivan, the media are clearly taking care not to damage the government with coverage of the whole truth and in many cases there
is no coverage at all.

This is a far cry from the days of Gordon Browns watch, where every damaging scrap was published headlines.

The Tories have made changes that cover their ar5es at every angle. The whole system is corrupt from the Lords to the media/press. It will all come to light in the end, when I fear it will be too late and the irriversible damage will be done.

by bobby Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:09 pm

Spot on Mel. We say repeatedly "why dont the people open their eyes" The thing is though to what, when everything relating to the Tory's is censored. What chance has the average person got of making an informed decision, when all nessesary information is censored by the Tory led Coalition and their media dogs.

by **astradt1** Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:23 pm

Sometimes it's interesting listening to the little slips of the tounge the tories make......

Much is made of patients having free choice of where they receive treatment but the other day one of them openly said it would all depend on where their GP had place the contract to any spacific treatment......so it will be a question of, and apoligies to James.....Hobson's Choice........

by trevorw2539 Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:11 pm

Had to go to local hospital yesterday due to careless slip with stanley knife.

The service I got was excellent. From a welcomig smile from the receptionist to friendly care from the doctors and nurses. I had to wait nearly 4 hours for final treatment but when I went to be treated I saw just how busy they were behind the scenes. Every room was in use and they were rushed off their feet. Still showed the same care. When I was bandaged the nurse even found time for a joke.

She also said 'I'll use this, it will be better on the wound than the normal stuff'.

It was also more costly. I bet you won't get that in a privatised NHS where cost count.

We have a NHS to be proud of. Sure there are mistakes. There are things that need improving, changes to be made. But not at the cost of 'privatisation'.

by astra Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:29 pm

Trevor, I feel exactly the same!

And don't those innocent looking stanley knives hurt after the fact? I never feel the cut, it is always, "Why is that wood going that colour?"

It is the faceless drongoes in the executive suite, those you never see, whose wages for one year would equip and run 3 closed wards! Next time you go to the hospital, have a look round the back at the bosses cars. Once you get a "Can I help" or " Are you lost?" or (even better) "You are not s'posed t' be here!" you know you are getting close.

I challenged the security oik about why he was watching the bosses cars, and not in A&E where the roof was lifting off and it just shrugged it's shoulders.
Nice to know the bosses Rollers are looked after!

by Mel Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:02 pm

Roll on astra Very Happy

by trevorw2539 Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:09 pm

Quote Astra.

And don't those innocent looking stanley knives hurt after the fact? I never feel the cut, it is always, "Why is that wood going that colour?"

Strange isn't it. You look down to see what has happened. When you see it you think 'Oh that must hurt'.and suddenly it does. Trouble is, living on your own you're trying to stop the bleeding, cut plaster, change out of mucky gardening clothes and drive to the local hospital 7 miles away one handed. ooops don't tell the cops:D

Ah well. Just off to watch my local football team in the County Cup Final. Fingers crossed. Ouch that hurt:)

by betty.noire Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:37 pm

The current plans to give GPs more financial management responsibilities and powers is yet another step in the capitalist parties (I include New Labour under this banner) plan to end to relics of socialism the 1945 election showed people believed they fought a war to have.

by **Ivan** Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:13 pm

The current plans to give GPs more financial management responsibilities and powers

That's just a device for facilitating privatisation of the NHS by stealth. Most doctors want to practise medicine, not be accountants, but as my GP told me last week, if they refuse to do as they've been told by Lansley, somebody else (private firms) will be drafted in to do it instead.

No doubt after a period of time, Lansley will (if he hasn't been booted out) decide that the GPs aren't up to this task, and those healthcare firms which have been bankrolling both his private office and the Tory Party will take over completely. Mission accomplished and the piper paid.

It all reminds me of the way in which the utilities were sold to the public (that is, the people who owned them already!), in the full knowledge that in no time at all those shares would be gobbled up by big companies, leaving us where we are today.

by betty.noire Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:28 pm

It really all does seem very bone headed, I like my Doctor to be a good Doctor, not an accountant or a manager

It's all very, very strange

by witchfinder Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:27 am

betty.noire has a good point

Now my wife is a consultant, and she is trained to look after patients, but like all doctors and nurses she relies on people who seem to have become targets of hatred, and I refer to "administrators", no organisation can do without secretaries, managers, records clerks or administrators.

Without the two secretaries who look after my wife, her job would be impossible, they take a huge burden off both my wife and the other consultants they look after, leaving more time to do what she is trained to do - look after patients.

There is some management and administration which is been done by the wrong people, for example ward managers, bed managers and admissions managers should never be done by people with no medical or clinical training or background, these duties ought to be done by senior nurses.

by oftenwrong Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:54 am

"ward managers, bed managers and admissions managers should never be done by people with no medical or clinical training or background...."

Nevertheless, I'd bet that people doing those jobs pick up the rudimentary "medical skills" pretty fast, and there's an obvious downside to employing medically qualified people just on admin duties.

by betty.noire Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:59 pm

In the NHS one of the problems is actually a failure to appreciate and value management as a profession. Doctors, in particular, but also other health professions think management is easy and have now structured the NHS so nearly all senior management posts are held by people with no management training or real experience.

Even basic idea like stock control are beyond many of these people. Back in the 70's, before the NHS had been 'commercialised' by Thatcher in her crusade against bolshy unions and when the NHS was still the envy of other counties the NHS used to train its own administrators and doctors had 'advisory' positions - it was far from a perfect system but it did have some benefits, the most important of which was that the system was focused on patients not on doctors.

Management is a skill set that can be taught and learnt but it's little valued in the UK (and the US for all their capitalist hype). I suspect China does value managers and I wonder how they train.

by astra Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:23 pm

I do not know about China, but if Nissan next to me is anything to go by, Japan has it right!

If an administrator or manager is lying fallow for 2 or 3 hours, NO golfcourse or extended liquid lunch for him/her!
It is on with the high viz vest and get mucked in downstairs!

This of pity/respect for the Hospital Admin/Managers? They will recieve it just as soon as they earn it!
Their edicts and pronouncements affect everyone, yet they stay in their almost bulletproof, certainly unapproachable edifices with the rose tinted glass!
Here in the North, they are ever at "meetings" down south. Who do you think pays for all that?

by trevorw2539 Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:16 pm

Quote Astra.

Here in the North, they are ever at "meetings" down south. Who do you think pays for all that?

Of course they are. The south is where they have the 'poshest' and most expensive restaurants, best theatres catering for afternoon and evening shows - ooops - 'meetings' and the best hotels and 'best' prices for drinks. Perhaps I won't mention that Soho is just round the corner. No I won't. Or the Casinos. No forget it.

All at the taxpayers expense. Can't beat it, can you. Or am I just being cynical again. Embarassed

by trevorw2539 Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:19 pm

All at the taxpayers expense. Can't beat it, can you. Or am I just being cynical again

Having one of those senior moments again. Forgot to mention the first class train fares.

by astra Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:40 pm

Forgot to mention the first class train fares.

Forget the chuff chuff!

British Airways have recently put another flight from Newcastle to Heathrow, and EasyJet another to Luton!

by oftenwrong Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:44 pm

Generalisations don't advance the argument. The primary objective in the NHS must be to have an Administration that allows and assists Medically-skilled staff to perform their task of healing the sick.

"Management is a skill set that can be taught and learnt but it's little valued in the UK."

"Little valued" because the typical British Manager is petrified by fear of the workers. Many are selected for Management posts because they have been in Commissioned Military Service; "Used to commanding Men."
By an oversight, civilian occupations rarely have a Court Martial facility whereby insubordinate dissenters can be shot.

by Mel Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:31 am

An investigation into the accounts of five of the biggest corporate names who lobbied in favour of health secretary Andrew Lansley's reforms has found widespread use of tax havens.

Well well, yet another surprise.

by **Ivan** Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:31 pm

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by **Ivan** Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:00 pm

'The duplicitous Mr Lansley':-

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by Mel Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:41 pm

Thank you for that Ivan. The whole truth is convieniently hidden by Cameron.
It is there for all to see, or is it? No the truth is hidden from the masses by the media /press, unlike when Brown was PM everything that could be damaging to him and Labour was highlighted and shoved under our noses day in day out. Added to this were the lies and the distortion of the truth.
What we see under this government is completely the opposite from the media /press.

This is democracy??? my arse!!!!

by Mel Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:46 pm

Dr Gordon, a Colchester GP and chief executive of the North East Essex GP Commissioning Group, the consortium of local doctors who will take over responsibility for commissioning and paying for their patients' treatment, championed the Bill before the Public Accounts Committee last year. He was also the lead author of a letter in support of the Bill this January, signed by more than 50 GPs. His leadership has been gratefully acknowledged by Mr Lansley in Parliament.

The GP, who sees patients just one day a week, openly declares he is a director and shareholder in the Tollgate Clinic, a private health company. It is likely to benefit from the reforms, according to research by the TUC-backed campaign group False Economy. Extract--The Independant..

There are bound to be many more with conflict of interest in addition to the backhanders already being received from the sales force of the Pharmaceutical companies and of course in receipt of high salaries.

by trevorw2539 Sun Mar 25, 2012 10:31 pm

Mel wrote:Dr Gordon, a Colchester GP and chief executive of the North East Essex GP Commissioning Group, the consortium of local doctors who will take over responsibility for commissioning and paying for their patients' treatment, championed the Bill before the Public Accounts Committee last year. He was also the lead author of a letter in support of the Bill this January, signed by more than 50 GPs. His leadership has been gratefully acknowledged by Mr Lansley in Parliament.

The GP, who sees patients just one day a week, openly declares he is a director and shareholder in the Tollgate Clinic, a private health company. It is likely to benefit from the reforms, according to research by the TUC-backed campaign group False Economy. Extract--The Independant..

There are bound to be many more with conflict of interest in addition to the backhanders already being received from the sales force of the Pharmaceutical companies and of course in receipt of high salaries.

Will you stop making such revelations. Stop digging into things that don't concern you. You could bring down the government, and we don't want that, Do We? Wink

If we knew the whole story, all the links were put together, I guess we could chain this cabinet, weigh them down and.................Ah well, dream on. Smile

by Mel Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:46 am

A leaked document on Health reforms shows damage to NHS. The draft risk register Document points to danger of emergencies being less well managed and increased use of private sector driving up costs.

by oftenwrong Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:19 am

With the passage of the NHS Reform Bill through Parliament, one positive thing at least emerges.

Everything that goes wrong now can be blamed on the correct people responsible.

by trevorw2539 Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:13 pm

by oftenwrong Today at 11:19 am

With the passage of the NHS Reform Bill through Parliament, one positive thing at least emerges.

Everything that goes wrong now can be blamed on the correct people responsible.

Oh. Come on. You know that anything that goes wrong will be down to mismanagement on the 'shop' floor. Not the bosses. They're never wrong. Mad

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