Food for thought

First topic message reminder :

I trust everyone reading this will take it as an unbiased reflection of the present situation and possible implications regarding faith.

There is much concern at the present time regarding young girls leaving home and joining the fighting in the belief that their faith demands it.

These are Muslim girls and one wonders why they would leave a so called better society to join in the fighting.


It should not be a secret what the parents of these girls teach their children as right from wrong, based on ther Koran.

These girls see day after day the way in which the vast majority of the youth of today behaves, along with the television and newspapers showing a long list of activities alien to the girls belief.

MP's lying, thieving and charged with the worst possible crimes of child abuse, 480 judges charged with crimes, parents killing their children, wives being beaten up, youths falling about and full of drugs etc;

This surely gives those Muslim's intent on brainwashing these poor girls to go to war, all the ammunition they need.

stuart torr wrote:Alas this could go on forever i'm afraid.

Not if he's 80 now.

Anyway the speed with which science is dismantling theism is mighty impressive. So who knows what another 100 years can achieve. I'm not overly cynical, and unlike theists I don't get wet at the thought of an apocalyptic end to our species.

polyglide wrote: the scientists involved

Name them.

Polyglide wrote:used all the present up to date technical equipment

Name it, all.

Polyglide wrote: and they were satisfied that they did in fact locate the presence of a spirit creature.

Show their research, show their conclusions, show one peer reviewed publication that supports either.

Polyglide wrote: A person who had previously been as sceptical as some on this site was so frightened

Fear doesn't constitute evidence, quite the opposite in fact, it represent a very strong motive to ignore evidence, or to imagine some where it does not exist, as you're doing all the time.

Polyglide wrote:There are numerous experiments that have taken place and been shown on television

There are numerous magic shows that defy explanation, some of them on television, this in no way represents evidence for the existence of magic. Your claim is utterly laughable, it's obvious you have no idea what represent proper evidence if you think these kind of claims represent compelling evidence for anything other than how suggestible and gullible people can be.

Polyglide wrote: and also you can log on to spirit creatures where you will find both verified cases and others not so.

Or you could follow this link https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&rlz=1C1CHWA_enGB609GB609&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=mermaids%20exist that shows numerous sites insisting mermaids are real, some even offering video evidence, are you offering parity for the credence of such claims? Or have you just posted another glaring piece of selection bias to favour your own superstitious beliefs over those of the many other whackadoo nutjobs that abound on the internet for the titillation of the gullible suggestible fools whose lives seem empty without this kind of asinine nonsense?

Stu,
In nearly every aspect of life you will find those who think they know everything and the opinions of others count for nothing.

There are also charlatans in many areas, spiritual being one of them.

Of course there have been numerous accounts of the claims made that have been proven either to be natural or created by those wanting to deceive.

You could say the same about almost every aspect of life, that does not mean there is no validity to some events.

Mermaids belong along with the evolution theory, fiction, when relating it to the creation of life etc;.

If you want the truth about anything you seek all possible influences yourself and not depend on other people.

Had I wanted to consider evolution, as I have done as a possible reason for life, I would not go asking unqualified people for their opinion, I would, and have, sort out all the possible information from, prokaryotes, euaryotes, chromosomes, genes, gernomes, microbes, old bones and Darwin etc;

The conclusion at this time is that none offer any explanation for the creation of life and the Big Bang theory is just that and offers more problems than it solves.

Anyone with little or no sense can appear intelligent but when their replies are always along the same silly lines that have no real relevance to the subject in question it becomes tiresome.

Polyglide.
Why oh why do you write posts to myself? when all I have said recentlty is that the continued debate between yourself and Sheldon could go on forever./????
I will actually reply to your post myself in a moment after taking my dog out,will not be too long.

Stu,
The actual reason for the subject has been lost along the way, we were supposed to be considering if the present state of the people and the country in particular as a whole, was a contributary cause for young people to feel it better to leave our shores and fight for their belief.

I am all for tollerance when so many different views are held on many subjects, however, I feel it not in the best interests of all concerned to promote that which offends others, this applies to all faiths and all subjects.

I have actually answered your post to myself yet again? on another thread, if you do not now wish me to answer this one,entirely up to you but I may later if I am in the mood.

polyglide wrote:In nearly every aspect of life you will find those who think they know everything and the opinions of others count for nothing.

Again I'm minded to point out that you and you alone have claimed to be 100% certain on here. So the irony is palpable, as you also seem to think that your tinkering with bird breeding gives you knowledge and insights into biology that the best scientific minds lack, including Darwin himself. Lectures on epistemological humility from you speak for themselves, and I think that's an irony overload right there in your opening sentence.

Polyglide wrote:There are also charlatans in many areas, spiritual being one of them. Of course there have been numerous accounts of the claims made that have been proven either to be natural or created by those wanting to deceive. You could say the same about almost every aspect of life, that does not mean there is no validity to some events.

It's hardly a reason to believe things that are claimed without proper evidence though is it? Indeed any half way intelligent rational person might see that such deceit makes proper evidence and rigorous scrutiny all the more important before accepting claims as true, which is exactly why science is so successful in such a short space of time. Unlike religious claims which have on many occasions failed spectacularly to withstand the same scrutiny. I notice the charlatans inn your story are no closer to be named, quelle surprise.

Polyglide wrote:Mermaids belong along with the evolution theory, fiction, when relating it to the creation of life etc;.

That's odd as you have repeatedly claimed evolution is a fact? Then you go and lie and reverse the claim as you have done here again. Evolution is a fact supported by masses of evidence that has withstood 150 years of the most rigorous scientific scrutiny, you couldn't name one so called "scientist" in your hobgoblin spooks and spirits story, instead citing a trashy tabloid and a film based on your hilarious story.None of which you're able to even relate in a cogent or even coherent fashion when asked. So the motive for this puerile attack is all too transparent.

Polyglide wrote:If you want the truth about anything you seek all possible influences yourself and not depend on other people.

Hilarious, especially when placed next to your opening sentence. Self awareness really isn't one of your strengths is it? Do you really think one person could hope amass enough knowledge to make informed decisions on everything that science covers?

Polyglide wrote:Had I wanted to consider evolution, as I have done as a possible reason for life,

Evolution makes no claims about the origins of life. Your tedious repetition of this claim won't go unanswered Poly, so stop lying. Your question also presupposes that life has a reason, care to show any evidence? What am I thinking of course you don't, you don't do evidence or even comprehend what it is.

Polyglide wrote:I would not go asking unqualified people for their opinion, I would, and have, sort out all the possible information from, prokaryotes, euaryotes, chromosomes, genes, gernomes, microbes, old bones and Darwin etc;

Is that why don't know that evolution makes no claims about the origins of life, or why you don't even understand what a scientific theory is as opposed to your claim that it is "just a theory" Hilarious stuff again.

Polyglide wrote:The conclusion at this time is that none offer any explanation for the creation of life and the Big Bang theory is just that and offers more problems than it solves.

You mean your conclusion, which is meaningless, unless you're claiming to have your evidence and research that supports them published in a worthy peer reviewed scientific journal? Do you not realise how laughable your fist sentence is when placed alongside your many grandiloquent claims in this post?  

Polyglide wrote: Anyone with little or no sense can appear intelligent but when their replies are always along the same silly lines that have no real relevance to the subject in question it becomes tiresome.

 

Oh my word I think I may have soiled myself a little there.

Laughed so much I had to rush because of my weak bladder.

Well Polyglide I said that I would answer your post if in the mood so I am going to answer it.
Now with regards to people thinking they know everything and your opinions count for nothing? I get that on here too, but I take no notice of it,unless it hurts your feelings then say who it is,instead of hiding behind a cloak of secrecy all the time.
Next when it comes to spiritualism, the whole area is full of charlatans i'm afraid,as my mother rip,and my father rip,suspected but were so sincere in their beliefs that they kept on going to the church if you could call it that, every week,hoping for messages from beyond the grave. My mother took it even more serious after my father died and even had the major guy from london do her funeral service for her which is what she wanted,a couple of months ago. One of the reasons that I did not attend.
Why the hell does the big bang not solve your universe problem? it is the answer. Is it because it does not fall in with your religious beliefs? I think that is the reason myself.
So to you I am coming up with the same silly answers as others therefore not believable,well that is your choice entirely.

Stu,
I could not agree with you more regarding the fact that many charlatans are involved in spiritualism and take the unwarey for a ride.

But just consider every aspect of life and you will find exactly the same applies.

I do not agree with any church that is involved, the Bible specifically says to keep well away from involvement in the spirit world.

I have actually seen the results of people using the Ouija Board and believe me it is not coincidence, there are also many instances of spirit activity throughout the world and not all can be explained.

As for the Big Bang theory, the last lecture I heard on the matter was that [this was a couple of weeks ago] even if this was the cause it does not answer what went Bang nor what existed before that which went Bang etc; etc; which leaves us just as mystified as ever, even were the Big Bang theory correct.

I told you in my post I do believe Polyglide, there was a void nothing except a mixture of gases, and one floating mass of rock filled with gases went BANG, WITH NO GRAVITY,everything floated off into space the universe,until coming to a gentle stop as things could go no further in this universe,who knows if there is another? neither you or I WILL EVER FIND OUT IN OUR LIFETIMES WILL WE?

Stu,
You might also consider the state of the world today relevant to the Bible.

There are more earthquakes, more brothers fighting brothers , pestilence is on the increase, famine is not far away and actually exists in many places in the world, people turning away from God,
and getting involved in every aspect of life that should be avoided etc;

I doubt very much if anyone around sixty years of age will ever reach 80 years of age before God takes his right to rule the earth, all the signs are clear that this event is not far away and gets clearer every day you put on the news.

Stu,
Where did the rock come from or the gasses?

Your explanation is not that of the scientist who gave the lecture and as far as I am aware the universe is still expanding and no one knows the extent, if it has come to an end what is it up against? what is on the other side? what is on the other side of that which it is up against? etc; etc;

I do think the present generation will find out what the answer is but not based on science.

As to your first post Polyglide, providing that there is no nuclear war, people are living to much older ages these days,and I cannot see that changing at all, not in civilised countries anyway. Also as an atheist god does not come into my reckonings at all.
As to your second post,we could go on forever could we not going further and further back in time prior to any knowledge so far though, theres the rub?
All we know so far is that the big bang happened 13.8 billion years ago to form the universe that we now have,and we do not know of anymore yet?

Polyglide wrote: instances of spirit activity throughout the world and not all can be explained

That's an oxymoron, either you can't explain it or you can, but it's absurd to both claim you can define it and can't explain it in the same sentence. Again this is a common logical fallacy called argumentum ad ignorantiam.

Polyglide wrote: As for the Big Bang theory, the last lecture I heard on the matter was that [this was a couple of weeks ago] even if this was the cause it does not answer what went Bang nor what existed before that which went Bang etc; etc; which leaves us just as mystified as ever, even were the Big Bang theory correct.

This is a second use of the logical fallacy argumentum ad ignorantiam in the same post. Science whole purpose is to study the unknown, yet you repeatedly point out the unknown as if it proves something. You clearly have no idea how hilarious this is, despite it being pointed out repeatedly.


Of course you're also using the spurious creationist Lib of implying that there are two choices here again. Either the BBT or bronze age creationist myths. This is also an hilarious premise though you clearly don't want to acknowledge your dishonesty.

Polyglide wrote: As for the Big Bang theory, the last lecture I heard on the matter

1. Who gave this lecture?
2 What are their qualifications?
3 Where is the research for these claims?
4 Is any of it peer reviewed or published?

Anyone can claim anything, and you have an appalling record for making up claims on here without a shred of evidence and then simply ignoring all responses.

Polyglide wrote:
There are more earthquakes, more brothers fighting brothers , pestilence is on the increase, famine is not far away and actually exists in many places in the world, people turning away from God,
and getting involved in every aspect of life that should be avoided etc;

Nonsense. You've simply made this up. Besides there are massively more people alive now than at any time in human history.

Polyglide wrote: I doubt very much if anyone around sixty years of age will ever reach 80 years of age before God takes his right to rule the earth, all the signs are clear that this event is not far away and gets clearer every day you put on the news.

Well if the past is anything to go by Christianity is no better than other religion at predicting this kind of thing. Besides nothing supernatural is needed for us to destroy ourselves or the planet.

Polyglide wrote:
I do think the present generation will find out what the answer is but not based on science.

Then why bother attending scientific lectures if you think your guesses are more accurate?

If indeed it was a scientific lecture which we have every reason to doubt from the hilarity of your claims.

I actually mentioned lacking a nuclear war Sheldon, people are living to greater ages now than at any time in the past are they not?

Polyglide,now would it not be easier for all around including yourself, if you actually bothered to answer Sheldons questions once in a while? then it would save yourself from being humiliated so often on the threads?
If you told us for instance,who actually gave the scientific lecture that you attended? what their qualifications were? would do just for starters.
I am really trying to help you out,and we atheist help nobody do we?

Polyglide wrote:people turning away from God,
and getting involved in every aspect of life that should be avoided etc;

Except there are more theists alive now than at any point in human history, mainly due to the exponentially increasing population. the rest of your claims are either demonstrable lies you've just made up, or are bizarre claims you're again not even attempting to evidence.

Sorry late answering,not only is the population increasing, but it is increasing for two reasons mainly,the aging population in the first place,which increases automatically the population,and the immigration to the United Kingdom from nearly every poor country going,which increses the population even more.

stuart torr wrote:Sorry late answering,not only is the population increasing, but it is increasing for two reasons mainly,the aging population in the first place,which increases automatically the population,and the immigration to the United Kingdom from nearly every poor country going,which increses the population even more.

I meant the world population Stu, which remained fairly stable until quite recently in human history. Largely due to advances in industrialised agricultural methods, and advances in medical science. These are facts theists like to ignore when they use stats that are biased when used out of context. Lets not forget Christians have been predicting the end of the world since they created their religion about 2000 years ago, and Judaism was doing the same before that, it never fails to amuse and baffle me that they no amount of failures to get it right dent the confidence of would be prophets like polyglide. The irony is some idiot walking up and down the high-street with a sandwich board proclaiming the end of the world is nigh ought really to set a tangible time limit on their claim, as after a while it's just embarrassing, and personally I think 2000 years of failed predictions is quite enough.

Polyglide wrote: The actual reason for the subject has been lost along the way, we were supposed to be considering if the present state of the people and the country in particular as a whole, was a contributary cause for young people to feel it better to leave our shores and fight for their belief.

Well you ignored my first response in its entirety, and went off at a tangent with wild claims about hokum stories on the Internet and in tabloids.

I pointed out that the people leaving to fight for religious theocracies area tiny minority even amongst their own faith. Also that the brainwashing occurs when the religious accept the premise that they know what an omniscient omnipotent deity desires.

The ammunition as you put it is all in the pages of the Koran which compels the faithful to slay non believers. I already quoted and linked the relevant passages.

So your claim is an erroneous and fairly transparent attempt to attack the free society we live in because you like many theists want a more puritanical society in line with your personal beliefs.

The answer to those attacking freedom and human rights is not to take them away to appease such criminals. It's to educate young people without indoctrination into religions until they're old enough and emotionally mature enough to think critically about ideas that are often presented as certainties when they're not evidenced at all and contain deeply harmful dogma and prejudices like homophobia for instance that you posted page after page of.

They do indoctrinate into foreign religions at far to young an age,even christianity starts whilst the children are at school does it not? surely it should be left to the parents if they want them taught such lies.

I'm not even sure parents should have complete autonomy to indoctrinate the young either.

I guess you are right in some ways there Sheldon,especially with these stronger religions that teach killing of the opposite religions.

Stu,
This is a very complex matter and has many different aspects to consider.

However, the most important one at the moment, is, the state of the world, not as we would like it but as it is.

Anyone could come up with an ideal solution in theory and subjected to a scientific hypothesis, this is the real world at the moment and has to be dealt with as such.

A Muslim goes into a Christian cafe and complains that there is a picture of Christ on the wall and the police make the owner take it down because it offends.

But a Muslim can call or decry a Christian and nothing is done about it, this is just one example of what causes problems.

Of course religion has been the cause of most of the conflicts on earth but only because many have adopted the wrong ones.

Even in the Christian faith many have deviated from what the Bible actually says one should do.

However, the most problems have a foundation in man's opinion that he knows best and is the ultimate being, those involved may not be believers in God nor the majority but they are certainly the ones who have provided the means for man to destroy the earth.

I believe they call them scientists.

Stu,
Tedious.

Stu, I have tried to send a personal message but I do not think it went through.

If you want a natter anytime I am in the library, no religion involved please let me know.

regards.

polyglide wrote:  A Muslim goes into a Christian cafe and complains that there is a picture of Christ on the wall and the police make the owner take it down because it offends. But a Muslim can call or decry a Christian and nothing is done about it, this is just one example of what causes problems.

That's not true in this country, nor in most developed countries that are free democracies. People's right to believe and worship are best protected by secular governments though, as your point amply demonstrates as the religious always believe 100% that only their religious beliefs are correct. Just see your next sentence for a perfect example.

Polyglide wrote:Of course religion has been the cause of most of the conflicts on earth but only because many have adopted the wrong ones.

Polyglide wrote:Even in the Christian faith many have deviated from what the Bible actually says one should do.

Hardly surprising as it was written in patriarchal bronze age societies, by misogynistic men whose prejudices and beliefs have little in common with the morals of the 21st century. We're hardly going to stone people for adultery just because it's claimed we should in an ancient book, any more than we will obey the bizarre and very silly commands in Deuteronomy like not wearing blended fibres as one example.

Polyglide wrote:However, the most problems have a foundation in man's opinion that he knows best

Again you are the only poster on here who has unashamedly claimed to be 100% certain about his beliefs, si I'm not sure why you keep making this ironic claim. Though I suspect this is just a swipe at those who reject your beliefs and won't defer to your opinion on what you think your chosen deity wants.    

Polyglide wrote: and is the ultimate being, those involved may not be believers in God nor the majority but they are certainly the ones who have provided the means for man to destroy the earth. I believe they call them scientists.

Hilarious, but very silly, you're assigning claims to science that it simply has never made. Nor can science be held responsible for those who abuse the knowledge it gives us, besides Christians like Muslims and Jews desire the destruction of the earth as they think it will fulfil their religions predictions, I'm pretty sure no wars have ever been fought with purely scientific goals. Your hatred of science is largely irrational,  yet it has a certain kind of logic to it as science has destroyed much of what was purportedly the immutable word of your omnipotent omniscient deity, and in a very short space of time at that.

Stu,
If you have a moment to look up some information just look up the findings of the following:-
Proffesor Heinemonns.
Michael Ledwith.
Along with their associates regarding the spirit world.

All involved are respected scientists in their field.



regards.

Polyglide why did you not just give that message to Sheldon as it is he who wanted evidence was it not? and to give him the scientists names would give him something to check upon would it not?

polyglide wrote:Stu, If you have a  moment to look up some information just look up the findings of the following:- Proffesor Heinemonns. Michael Ledwith. Along with their associates regarding the spirit world. All involved are respected scientists in their field.

Google didn't show a single reference for any professor Heinemonns, is the name correct? Can you cite any peer reviewed research by him? If not then respected by whom, and what field are you referring to as science has no field that studies supernatural or spiritual claims?

As for Michael Ledwith I found the following:

As Maynooth approached its bicentenary in 1994 Mgr Ledwith unexpectedly resigned as President, six months before his term of office was to end. In the immediate aftermath rumours began to circulate and in 1995 the Irish National Broadcaster, RTÉ, initiated discreet inquiries with the college authorities into an allegation of sexual abuse of a minor male. The Maynooth management initially denied that this occasioned Mgr Ledwith's sudden departure, however in response to later revelations in the press Ledwith's successor, Monsignor Dermot Farrell, and the Bishop Trustees of the College issued a joint statement in 2002 admitting that an allegation had been made. Mgr Ledwith, they noted, had denied this strenuously but the College authorities had nevertheless commenced an investigation, and his Bishop, Dr Brendan Comiskey, had at the time informed both the Gardaí and the relevant Health Board. This process of investigation had commenced in or around 1995 but Ledwith, in the interim, came to a private legal settlement with the claimant which admitted no liability and included a confidentiality clause. This, they said, frustrated the continuing inquiry. Dr Ledwith remained in situ at the College for another two years after his resignation, and continued his professorship.

In 2005 a report by a High Court Judge, Mr Justice Murphy, into the activities of certain priests of the Diocese of Ferns included various allegations made against Mgr Ledwith. In connection with the accusation of sexual abuse against a minor the Inquiry was hampered by the confidentiality clause agreed between Ledwith and the complainant, and the Ferns Report was unable to make any specific finding. It did, however, repeat the substance of accusations and noted that the complainant had alleged that the abuse began when he was 13 years old and lasted until he was 15. The Inquiry discovered that the Diocese of Ferns had spent substantial monies providing counselling for the complainant, and noted that Fr Walter Ford, who had investigated the allegation on behalf of the Diocese, reported to Dr Comiskey that he found the accusation as 'capable of being true'.

Surprise surprise eh Sheldon? now you know why he did not give those names to you?

Actually found proffessor William Heinemonns Sheldon,who deals in the vagina,vulva,uterix etc in some strange university in poland I do believe, or it could have been in Germany, but that was the only one that I could find with that spelling. Also it was for girls not women?

Polyglide I really do hope that you do not follow your scientists too closely? as they do not seem the type that should be followed legally anyway?