Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

by blueturando Thu Dec 15, 2011 2:09 am

First topic message reminder :

Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010. It certainly looks as though the Conservatives have recieved a boost from David Cameron’s veto at the European summit. There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck. How is it that the tories can be level or ahead in the polls when they are having to make some very difficult and painfull decisions to try and bring down the deficit, the umemployment figures are the worst for 17 years. We have had strikes, pension reforms, VAT rises and the veto in Europe etc.......

It looks like Ed Millaband is not liked or trusted by many of the elecorate. In my opinion he looks weak, sounds weak and has no policies to speak of....Everytime he tries to get the better of Cameron in PMQ'S he ends looking like a fool with Cameron destroying him. Ed Balls is no better...he comes across as an odious man with no substance, who would probably stab his own wife in the back if it meant he gained more power.

Labour missed a trick in not voting in Eds brother David into the leadership role. David would have given Cameron a better run for his money and I believe he is a better politician than Ed too. With the two Eds at the helm I believe Labour are not a viable opposition right now and one or both could be dispatched by the party sooner rather than later

by astra Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:53 pm

'Flag, you did not mention VAT UP 5%

by Redflag Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:10 pm

astra wrote:'Flag, you did not mention VAT UP 5%

I thought already gone up to 20% is that not high enough astra?

by astra Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:35 pm

erm, you appear misunderstand me.

You were mentioning ALL the things that have gone up since the filth took office.

by oftenwrong Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:44 pm

Always look on the bright side of life

Now let's enumerate all the GOOD things achieved by the Tory-led Coalition during the first half of this Parliament.

1.

by astra Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:54 pm

It's a trick question................... right?

by jackthelad Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:15 pm

astra wrote:It's a trick question................... right?

That depends on which way you vote, if you vote tory it's a trick question, if you vote any otherway, then it's just a straight forward question. Quite simple really.

by Redflag Thu Jan 26, 2012 9:16 pm

jackthelad wrote:
astra wrote:It's a trick question................... right?

That depends on which way you vote, if you vote tory it's a trick question, if you vote any otherway, then it's just a straight forward question. Quite simple really.

You hit that nail right on the head jackthelad.

by Stox 16 Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:24 am

LWS wrote:I think Ed needs to work on his self-confidence. When faced with Tory incompetents like Cameroon, he needs fight dirty and brutal. Instead he tends to let Cameron walk all over him. Lets face it a real bruiser would trounce the Tories there's plenty of material by way of economic data and other things goin wrong like the NHS reforms to get at the incompetents!

You are quite right LWS. he comes over as quite nice and when fighting the Tories you need to be brutal most of the time. if he was a real bruiser the Tories would be dead in the water. as there economy is so shot away its unreal right now

by Stox 16 Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:26 am

oftenwrong wrote:Always look on the bright side of life

Now let's enumerate all the GOOD things achieved by the Tory-led Coalition during the first half of this Parliament.

1.

God that a very hard question Oftenwrong. I cannot think of anything as yet. I will try to find something?

by **Ivan** Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:15 am

It may be that we are all underestimating Ed Miliband, as this extract from an article by George Eaton suggests:-

"Explaining Stephen Hester's decision to waive his £1m bonus, RBS was clear that one man was responsible: Ed Miliband. It was Miliband's plan to force a Commons vote on the issue that prompted Hester's announcement last night. As one RBS director put it to the BBC's Robert Peston, it would have been "untenable" for a semi-nationalised bank to defy the will of Parliament. Miliband probably would have preferred the row to continue for another week but this is still a significant victory for him. Like his intervention over the BSkyB deal, it is further evidence of his willingness to take on 'vested interests'."

For the full article:-
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/01/rbs-labour-bonus-miliband#reader-comments

by Guest Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:37 am

blueturando wrote:
Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010... There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck.

Interesting. I'm beginning to see a light, however faint.

Your Liberal Dems are similar to our Independents and third partiers, even though there are several "third parties." The difference is dictated by the different structures over there and over here. It would be hard for Republicans or Democrats to enlist a third party in a coalition administration (government). Whether that's good or bad, "I don't know."

by blueturando Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:44 am

IVAN....Maybe the last government should have shown some balls and blocked the new bonus schemes. A bit of a cheek to now blame the current government for another Labour error....but par for the course I suppose

The directors of Royal Bank of Scotland have been given legal advice that they would have to resign if the chancellor of the exchequer were to block them from paying the bonuses they regard as essential to maintain the competitiveness of the group.

I have learned that they sought this legal advice after the Chancellor, Alistair Darling, insisted last month that the Treasury will have the "right to consent" to how much Royal Bank pays in bonuses and how it pays those bonuses.

Or to put it another way, the chancellor - as represented by UK Financial Investments, the investment arm of the Treasury - has insisted on a right of veto over bonuses to be paid by Royal Bank.
The scene is therefore set for brinkmanship of a potentially devastating sort for both Royal Bank and the government.

The stakes are so high because of the sheer amount that Royal Bank - currently 70% owned by taxpayers - feels it needs to pay in bonuses to maintain the competitiveness of its investment bank.

I have also learned that Royal Bank has informed Mr Darling that - on the basis of the profits it has generated so far this year - it would expect to pay bonuses 50% greater than last year.

Last year Royal Bank paid £900m of bonuses in its investment bank. So right now it expects to pay up to £1.5bn in bonuses to its investment bankers.

Including bonuses it would want to pay to retail bankers and to employees in the rest of the group, it would intend to pay £2bn in bonuses for its performance in 2009.

Such payments will be hugely contentious, given that Royal Bank of Scotland is only alive as a group thanks to hundreds of billions of pounds of loans, guarantees, insurance and investment provided to it by taxpayers.

However, Royal Bank's directors believe that if they don't pay the "going rate" for bonuses, its top bankers will desert to rivals - thereby destroying a vital part of the business.

In the current year's exceptional conditions, Royal Bank's investment bank has generated some £6bn of profit.

The board believes that up to half the intrinsic value of the bank is in its investment bank. So if the chancellor were to veto bonuses which the directors believe to be essential to preserving that value, they would be under a legal obligation to quit - because they would be prevented from taking actions they perceive to be in the interests of shareholders.

It is understood that Royal Bank's chairman, Sir Philip Hampton, argued to the chancellor that he was playing with fire by insisting on the final say over bonuses.

Mr Darling now has the appalling choice of either approving bonuses that will be described as grotesquely unfair by opposition parties and by many voters, or of sparking a crisis at RBS by prompting the mass resignation of directors.

Mr Darling insisted on the explicit veto over bonuses as a condition of providing £25.5bn of new capital to Royal Bank and insuring £282bn of its loans and investments against losses under the Asset Protection Scheme.

The final decision on bonuses in 2009 will be taken in February.

As a bank, the entire RBS board cannot in practice all quit at the same time. The Financial Services Authority would not allow the bank to be rudderless. But the directors would be able to announce a collective intention to quit, so that replacements could be found in an orderly fashion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/robertpeston/2009/12/rbs_board_to_quit_if_chancello.html

by Stox 16 Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:15 am

RockOnBrother wrote:
blueturando wrote:
Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010... There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck.

Interesting. I'm beginning to see a light, however faint.

Your Liberal Dems are similar to our Independents and third partiers, even though there are several "third parties." The difference is dictated by the different structures over there and over here. It would be hard for Republicans or Democrats to enlist a third party in a coalition administration (government). Whether that's good or bad, "I don't know."

Rock
I am not sure if having a 3rd party in coalition ever works. well not here anyway in my view. it sound good but always ends with one of the two groups hating and stopping the other and this just leads to resentment and always leads to what you would call gridlock in the end. we have this now. as 95% of the coalition policies are being attacked from within there own government. sure they dress it up as some sort of debate but it clearly not most of the time.

by oftenwrong Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:02 am

The yardstick by which Bankers' bonus levels will be measured is not a Government-controlled Bank, but one of those like Barclays which has not borrowed anything from the taxpayer.

by Redflag Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:20 pm

astra wrote:erm, you appear misunderstand me.

You were mentioning ALL the things that have gone up since the filth took office.

OK astra and thank you for keeping me right, but it only went from 171/2 % to 20%, although I do remember Labour reducing it to 15% but was it not back up too 171/2% before the nasty party came back into power.

by astra Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:02 pm

the move from 15% to 17.5% VAT, coupled with the removal of the 10p Tax Band hit me particularly hard, therefore I have NO respect for G. Broon or his chatalayne, Prudence

by **Ivan** Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:18 pm

For the record, VAT was first introduced by Heath in 1973 at the rate of 10%, as a replacement for Purchase Tax. VAT was reduced to 8% by Healey, then increased to 15% by Thatcher. Major increased it to 17.5% and, apart from the reduction for gas and electricity to 5%, there it stayed until Brown reduced the standard rate to 15% for thirteen months (to include Christmas twice!) to help stimulate the economy. The rate returned to 17.5% in January 2010.

Just as Thatcher "had no plans" to increase VAT (yet we now know that Howe had informed Treasury officials long before the 1979 election of the plan to almost double it), Osborne and Cameron told us the same lie in 2010 before increasing it to 20%.

Returning to the subject of Ed Miliband, he taunted Cameron in the House of Commons this afternoon with the line: "A veto is not for life, it's just for Christmas".

by oftenwrong Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:08 pm

"Arise, Sir Fred"

Oh. Just a minute ............ "Get back down again."

by Redflag Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:35 pm

Ivan wrote:For the record, VAT was first introduced by Heath in 1973 at the rate of 10%, as a replacement for Purchase Tax. VAT was reduced to 8% by Healey, then increased to 15% by Thatcher. Major increased it to 17.5% and, apart from the reduction for gas and electricity to 5%, there it stayed until Brown reduced the standard rate to 15% for thirteen months (to include Christmas twice!) to help stimulate the economy. The rate returned to 17.5% in January 2010.

Just as Thatcher "had no plans" to increase VAT (yet we now know that Howe had informed Treasury officials long before the 1979 election of the plan to almost double it), Osborne and Cameron told us the same lie in 2010 before increasing it to 20%.

Returning to the subject of Ed Miliband, he taunted Cameron in the House of Commons this afternoon with the line: "A veto is not for life, it's just for Christmas".

Was watching that also Ivan what is your opinion on how he did? It would have too be the Tories that brought in another tax and I do remember G. Brown bringing it down to get the economy growing after we had to bail out the banks after they done there money in a night at the Casino I also remember G. Brown bringing in a £3,000 for motor cars that where 10 yrs old to get the motor making and trading a boost to get the economy growing doing away with the 10p tax was a mistake.

by atv Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:34 pm

Getting back to the thread,
Re: Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

Labour MP's such as Anne Begg, Hugh Bayley, Shelia Gilmore and Karen Buck are openly slating Ed and his leadership of Labour to anyone within the party who they feel are sympathetic to their desire for a change in leader.
Oddly enough, apart from casting Balls and Cooper as deceitful conniving Machiavellian plotters, there is also some bad press painting David Miliband as a "tax dodger".

The knives are certainly out. Who is wielding them I wonder? Ed's team, I suspect.
It certainly doesn't look good but it does take the pressure off Ed Miliband if he can point to "traitors" whilst blackening the good name of another potential usurper making him look like a total hypocrite and greedy capitalist.

by atv Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:46 pm

Take a look at these figures - this paints it even worse for Ed Miliband

Which of these would make the best PM?

North of England
Cameron 30% : Miliband 23%

Scotland
Cameron 28% : Miliband 21%

Cameron is scoring better than Miliband in places where the Tories are HATED. How on earth is this happening?

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/4634

by **astradt1** Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:58 pm

Camoron must be in real trouble with his 'supporters' has some are spend qiute a bit of time trying to paint other party leaders as having problems and ducking giving real answers to Camorons current little problems........

by Redflag Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:14 pm

atv wrote:Take a look at these figures - this paints it even worse for Ed Miliband

Which of these would make the best PM?

North of England
Cameron 30% : Miliband 23%

Scotland
Cameron 28% : Miliband 21%

Cameron is scoring better than Miliband in places where the Tories are HATED. How on earth is this happening?

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/4634

Your figures where did you get them from I live in Scotland and the Tories have only ONE elected Tory MSP and ONE Yellow Tory the rest come from the List, since Thatcher gave Scotland the "POLL TAX" first jailed people when they protested and brought the Bailiffs to sell off peoples homes because they could not afford to pay.

Why do you think Alec Salmond is doing so well in Scotland because he knows the same as the rest of us how Scotland, and the reason Salmond done so well in May 2011 foolishly the people of Scotland thought that Salmond would be able to protect them from another TORY Gov't.

by atv Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:20 pm

astradt1 wrote:Camoron must be in real trouble with his 'supporters' has some are spend qiute a bit of time trying to paint other party leaders as having problems and ducking giving real answers to Camorons current little problems........

I thought this thread was "Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?"

The answer appears to be yes.

by oftenwrong Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:48 pm

"We have all, the time in the world
Time ENOUGH for life
To UNFOLD
All the prescious things
Love has in store

We have all the love in the world
If that's all we have
You will find
We need nothing more

Every step of the way
Will find us
With the cares of the world
Far behind us ...."

A week is a long time in Politics, and Cameron has given his Coalition until 2015 to "prepare" for a General Election.

How's he doing so far?

by Redflag Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:02 pm

atv wrote:Take a look at these figures - this paints it even worse for Ed Miliband

Which of these would make the best PM?

North of England
Cameron 30% : Miliband 23%

Scotland
Cameron 28% : Miliband 21%

Cameron is scoring better than Miliband in places where the Tories are HATED. How on earth is this happening?

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/4634

Here I think you will find your figures are well out so here is the correct figures as of today 1/2/2012.

MPs that got a seat representing Scotland in the H.O.C in May 2010, Labour 41 seats, Lib/Dems 11 seats only because they lied through there teeth and ask any Uni student, Tory MP ONE that represents Scotland David Mundell.

The number of seats in Holyrood but remember Scotland has the LIST and will give both figures these figures are from the result of May election in May 2011.

Tory = 13.9% constituency 12.4% list elected MSPs seats THREE, list 17

Lib/Dem = 7.9% constituency 5.02% list MSP seats TWO, 14 list

Labour = 31.7% constituency, 26.3% list MSP seats 15, list 22

SNP = 45% constituency, list 44%, MSPs seats 53, list 16

And if anybody does not believe these figures there is always GOOGLE

by oftenwrong Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:18 pm

Apart from selling newspapers, polls of about 1000 people are not all that useful. There's only ONE poll that matters, and the last one was particularly valuable for showing the result of apathy.

by AwfulTruth Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:44 pm

Ed Miliband is a decent chap - Cameron is a boorish, ad hominen throwing troglodyte who needs to grow up.

A few years and he will be begging to be committed to an asylum while Ed does the business. Stupid post, by the way: borrowed time? Get real and smell the ruddy coffee luv!

by Redflag Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:13 pm

AwfulTruth wrote:Ed Miliband is a decent chap - Cameron is a boorish, ad hominen throwing troglodyte who needs to grow up.

A few years and he will be begging to be committed to an asylum while Ed does the business. Stupid post, by the way: borrowed time? Get real and smell the ruddy coffee luv!

Your post is fine Awfultruth you can not be penalized for telling the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

by AwfulTruth Thu Feb 02, 2012 3:24 pm

Thanks mate: remember shit sometimes floats to the surface.

by Redflag Tue Feb 07, 2012 7:40 am

Stox 16 wrote:
LWS wrote:I think Ed needs to work on his self-confidence. When faced with Tory incompetents like Cameroon, he needs fight dirty and brutal. Instead he tends to let Cameron walk all over him. Lets face it a real bruiser would trounce the Tories there's plenty of material by way of economic data and other things goin wrong like the NHS reforms to get at the incompetents!

You are quite right LWS. he comes over as quite nice and when fighting the Tories you need to be brutal most of the time. if he was a real bruiser the Tories would be dead in the water. as there economy is so shot away its unreal right now

Maybe you have a point Stox he does come across as too nice, or he thinks I will not STOOP TO HIS LEVEL.

by oftenwrong Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:02 am

Yah-booh Politics have subsisted so long in the Palace of Westminster that reasoned debate sounds like defeatism.

Mister Speaker ... God ....
Mister Speaker .... God ....
Mister Speaker, the Right Honourable Member opposite, Mister Speaker
Order! Order!
...... help us!
(Noisy confusion. Hansard)

by bobby Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:06 am

I think you are right there Red, But unfortunitely if you are put into a bear pit, you end up fighting like a bear.

I personaly hope Edd Miliband continues as is. Herr Cameron in yet another of his broken promises, said he would put an end to Punch and Judy politics and has failed miserably, on the other hand Edd Miliband made no such pledge, he has just got on and done it, he has not bitten when Herr Cameron resorts to personal Attacks whereas Herr Cameron see's red simply because he can not answer a simple question.

by Redflag Tue Feb 07, 2012 6:30 pm

bobby wrote:I think you are right there Red, But unfortunitely if you are put into a bear pit, you end up fighting like a bear.

I personaly hope Edd Miliband continues as is. Herr Cameron in yet another of his broken promises, said he would put an end to Punch and Judy politics and has failed miserably, on the other hand Edd Miliband made no such pledge, he has just got on and done it, he has not bitten when Herr Cameron resorts to personal Attacks whereas Herr Cameron see's red simply because he can not answer a simple question.

Thanks bobby for explaining Ed I was starting to wonder if he was too nice for this game of politics, It takes a while for me to think things through but with your help I got there in the end I normally ask Stox if there is something I do not understand as I have only been following politics for two years but enjoy getting into debate and will defend my political views and my party, I like yourself watch PMQs every week and have seen Scam..er..on going RED with frustration but just as you have said does not give an answer to questions that are asked, as to Ed not biting when Scam..er..on resorts to personal attacks it just shows who the real GENTLEMAN is Ed Miliband.

by bobby Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:39 pm

Who watched Prime Ministers Question Time Today.
Well its about time they changed its name to Leader of the oppositions question time.

Yet another first class drubbing from Ed Milliband, and the cretin resorted to telling Ed Miliband what questions he should be asking, what an absolute fiasco on the part of the Leader of this Country, then he sat down thinking he was Mohamed Ali beckoning Ed Milliband to come on. Ed Milliband, couldn’t have played it better, he totally humiliated Herr Cameron, with wit, truth, intelligence and Gentlemanly behaviour, and of course Herr Cameron didn’t know how to deal with it and as usual ended up throwing insults Ed Milliband’s way, and how did Ed Milliband deal with that, he just smiled, not once did he resort to losing his temper, not once did he resort to lying. This man is growing in stature daily, and will certainly get my Total support, The Tory’s haven’t anyone to match him in any way.

Herr Cameron must wake up every Wednesday morning with absolute dread about the coming PMQ’s and quite rightly so, as he just aint up to the job.

by Redflag Wed Feb 22, 2012 5:51 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:I saw the event and I agree that Ed did a far better job - and in a far better 'tone' - than the Tory vultures would have found comfortable.

Add the fact that Cameron is making a very large error in taking on Alex Salmond ( a far smarter and equally dirty fighter) head to head, and the future could look a little choppy for our Prime Minister. And not before time.

How awful it would be if Miliband could find a crafty way of stirring the bubbling Cameron-v- Salmond pot while staying carefully out of the way of the flying fur...

Phil Hornby that was a good read and a good post its something i never thought of putting Scam..er..on and Salmond in a ring and stand back and watch a good scrap now I would buy a ticket to watch that one can you set this up PH?

by Redflag Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:09 pm

bobby wrote:Who watched Prime Ministers Question Time Today.
Well its about time they changed its name to Leader of the oppositions question time.

Yet another first class drubbing from Ed Milliband, and the cretin resorted to telling Ed Miliband what questions he should be asking, what an absolute fiasco on the part of the Leader of this Country, then he sat down thinking he was Mohamed Ali beckoning Ed Milliband to come on. Ed Milliband, couldn’t have played it better, he totally humiliated Herr Cameron, with wit, truth, intelligence and Gentlemanly behaviour, and of course Herr Cameron didn’t know how to deal with it and as usual ended up throwing insults Ed Milliband’s way, and how did Ed Milliband deal with that, he just smiled, not once did he resort to losing his temper, not once did he resort to lying. This man is growing in stature daily, and will certainly get my Total support, The Tory’s haven’t anyone to match him in any way.

Herr Cameron must wake up every Wednesday morning with absolute dread about the coming PMQ’s and quite rightly so, as he just aint up to the job.

Hi bobby I watched PMQs today as I do every week and did not OUR ED do well today he is getting Scam..er..ons number and his confidence in his ability to do a good job I think that lack of confidence and scared to make a mistakes and letting the Labour party and its members down, but Scam..er..on does not like it because Ed can behave like the Gentleman he is, while Scam..er..on just behaving like the Bullington boy he was and still is and what is the worst of all he will never be anything different so maybe what that says is you can't take the Bullington boy out of the (poor excuse for) man.

by Redflag Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:04 pm

bobby wrote:Who watched Prime Ministers Question Time Today.
Well its about time they changed its name to Leader of the oppositions question time.

Yet another first class drubbing from Ed Milliband, and the cretin resorted to telling Ed Miliband what questions he should be asking, what an absolute fiasco on the part of the Leader of this Country, then he sat down thinking he was Mohamed Ali beckoning Ed Milliband to come on. Ed Milliband, couldn’t have played it better, he totally humiliated Herr Cameron, with wit, truth, intelligence and Gentlemanly behaviour, and of course Herr Cameron didn’t know how to deal with it and as usual ended up throwing insults Ed Milliband’s way, and how did Ed Milliband deal with that, he just smiled, not once did he resort to losing his temper, not once did he resort to lying. This man is growing in stature daily, and will certainly get my Total support, The Tory’s haven’t anyone to match him in any way.

Herr Cameron must wake up every Wednesday morning with absolute dread about the coming PMQ’s and quite rightly so, as he just aint up to the job.

Hi bobby did you hear Mr Bone Tory MP tell Scam..er..on about a question that Mrs Bone had asked him if not go on line and watch Cleggs face there is a spilt in the coalition a coming.

by bobby Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:41 pm

Yes Red, I love it when a plan comes together

by witchfinder Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:02 pm

The NHS has always been the achilles heel of the Conservative Party; right from the very begining, the Tories opposed the setting up of free health care. The Labour Party are onto a definite winner here and the issue needs to be pushed and pushed.

The ordinary man and woman in the street are generally not that interested in politics, but they do care about the local GP centre or the local hospital.

The opposition under the leadership of Ed Miliband also need to emphasise how the economy is now worse than it was in May 2010, weaker than when they took office, how unemployment is much worse, and how, contrary to everything that George Osborne said, our credit rating is now under threat of been lowered thanks to his policies.

by Stox 16 Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:52 am

witchfinder wrote:The NHS has always been the achilles heel of the Conservative Party; right from the very begining, the Tories opposed the setting up of free health care. The Labour Party are onto a definite winner here and the issue needs to be pushed and pushed.

The ordinary man and woman in the street are generally not that interested in politics, but they do care about the local GP centre or the local hospital.

The opposition under the leadership of Ed Miliband also need to emphasise how the economy is now worse than it was in May 2010, weaker than when they took office, how unemployment is much worse, and how, contrary to everything that George Osborne said, our credit rating is now under threat of been lowered thanks to his policies.

Withy the NHS fact and figures should who looks after the NHS...it is the Tory party for sure..

At the beginning of the 20th century, government spent about 0.5 percent of GDP on health. But spending began to increase in 1909 after passage of the National Insurance Act, reaching 1.14 percent of GDP in 1921.
Health spending increased steadily in the 1920s and 1930s reaching 1.91 percent of GDP at the start of World War II. Spending kept steady during the war and then increased briskly after the war, reaching 3.07 percent just before the National Health Service was set up in 1948.
Costs rose sharply in the early years of the NHS, reaching 3.6 percent of GDP by 1950 and then dropping to 3.0 percent of GDP by 1955. Spending increased steadily after the mid 1950s, running at about 3.5 percent of GDP in the early 1960s and increasing to 4.0 percent of GDP by 1970 and peaking at 4.98 percent of GDP in 1975.
Health spending declined in the late 1970s, down to 4.7 percent of GDP in 1979 and increased thereafter, reaching 5.64 percent of GDP in 1983 before beginning a decline to 5.16 percent in 1988. Then spending jolted upwards, reaching 6.31 percent of GDP by 1993 before a steep decline to 4.91 percent of GDP in 1998.

Spending began increasing sharply after 1999, and is expected to reach a planned expenditures of 8.43 percent of GDP in 2010.
HM Treasury 2012

As for the economy...now worse than it was in May 2010,...Whichy the GDP to national debt percent is now back at the level of 1971 to 1973 levels

Public Net Debt
Fiscal Years 2010 to 2011
Year GDP
£ billion Public Net Debt -total

2010 1453.62 52.25 a
2011 1526.5 59.56 e
Legend:
a - actual outturn
e - estimate in HM Treasury 2011 budget

back to there 1971 level. thats the Tory party for you

Public Net Debt
Fiscal Years 1971 to 1973
Year GDP
£ billion Public Net Debt -total

1971 57.67 57.99 a
1972 64.621 55.46 a
1973 74.545 49.48 a

a - actual outturn
e - estimate in HM Treasury 2011 budget

well there back in the 1970s now....

Still I am sure there now say the HM Treasury figures are wrong...

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