Is Ed Miliband living on borrowed time?

First topic message reminder :

Tonight’s YouGov poll for the Sun has topline figures of CON 41%, LAB 39%, LDEM 10%, Others 10%. This is the first time that YouGov have shown a Conservative lead since December 2010. It certainly looks as though the Conservatives have recieved a boost from David Cameron’s veto at the European summit. There is also a new ComRes poll out tonight for the Independent which has topline figures of CON 38%(+1), LAB 38%(-1), LDEM 12%(+2) – also showing the two main parties effectively neck-and-neck. How is it that the tories can be level or ahead in the polls when they are having to make some very difficult and painfull decisions to try and bring down the deficit, the umemployment figures are the worst for 17 years. We have had strikes, pension reforms, VAT rises and the veto in Europe etc.......

It looks like Ed Millaband is not liked or trusted by many of the elecorate. In my opinion he looks weak, sounds weak and has no policies to speak of....Everytime he tries to get the better of Cameron in PMQ'S he ends looking like a fool with Cameron destroying him. Ed Balls is no better...he comes across as an odious man with no substance, who would probably stab his own wife in the back if it meant he gained more power.

Labour missed a trick in not voting in Eds brother David into the leadership role. David would have given Cameron a better run for his money and I believe he is a better politician than Ed too. With the two Eds at the helm I believe Labour are not a viable opposition right now and one or both could be dispatched by the party sooner rather than later

stuart. The last time the Tories polled over 36% in a general election was in 1992. I can’t see them getting more than 40% in just over six months, not when most people have been on the receiving end of the biggest fall in living standards since the 1870s, when the government deficit is getting bigger, and when the so-called economic ‘recovery’ is little more than a house-price bubble waiting to burst.

Another problem with your forecast is that the figures for the four parties total 100%!! If you look at some of the opinion polls, they usually add up to around 90-91%, to allow for all the minor parties in Northern Ireland plus the SNP, the Green Party and Plaid Cymru.

Somebody using the name ‘Crossbat11’ posted this at UK Polling Report today:-

“I must admit I do afford myself a little wry smile when I hear these glib assumptions about an impending Tory recovery as if we’re talking about some innately irresistible electoral force suffering a temporary blip in their fortunes. My advice is to read the book of the last four elections and 25 years of politics and don’t bother yourself with too many wishful thinking crystal balls.”

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9033#comments

Just a few months to go until we find out who is right!

I must admit at doing those figures in anger Ivan, and I certainly was not thinking straight.
Re doing them having just got back from my GPs you can give your opinion then my friend.
Tories 37% Labour 34% UKIP 11% Lib/Dem8% Others 10%
There you go Ivan, my revised version in a calmer manner.

stuart torr wrote:Do not worry Redflag, if my prediction is right I will be ready for the revolution, poor against the rich.

If the Tories get back into power in 2015 you can put your savings on a bet that there will be a REVOLUTION  by the people of the UK Stuart.

OK Redflag.
savings on a revolution

Revolution? No chance. It’s far more likely that we will drift into a very British, subtle form of full-blown fascism. We’re well on the way to it already, we’re getting there by stealth.

The right in politics seem to have all the aces. They control most of the media, which is used to relentlessly spread and repeat their lies. They have simple (even if totally fallacious) arguments on such topics as immigration with which the unthinking masses can identify. They have mastered the technique of ‘divide and rule’, setting one group of the disadvantaged against another to take attention away from the real villains. They appeal to people’s baser instincts of selfishness and greed rather than altruism; after all, it’s a lot easier to be bad than to be good.

For over four years we’ve had the unbelievable cruelty of Iain Duncan Smith towards the sick and disabled, hundreds of whom have died, but the media hardly mentions it. We have almost a million people relying on foodbanks to stop them from starving, but of course 63 million of us aren’t in that position. We’ve had the bedroom tax, frozen wages, rising energy prices and the greatest fall in living standards since the 1870s. If there is going to be a revolution, why hasn’t there even been a hint of it occurring? We’re not seeing a massive increase in support for the barely functioning Workers’ Revolutionary Party, and there’s only been a modest rise in trade union membership. Instead we’ve seen growing electoral success for the quasi-fascist UKIP - the party of ex-Tories, led by a one-time City trader, financed by former Tory donors and given the oxygen of publicity and credibility by the right-wing media.

Revolutions usually require a charismatic leader, but who are our most popular politicians? Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson; it would be hard to find two greater bastions of the establishment. So who could lead a revolution? By definition, nobody within the Westminster political parties, since they’re committed to change by democratic means. Russell Brand? Just joking!

Too many people aren’t aware of the suffering of others, and some simply don’t care; “no such thing as society” has been drummed into them by Thatcherism. Plenty are dumbed down enough to be motivated more by who gets voted off ‘Strictly Come Dancing’ or ‘The X Factor’ than the state of the country and the criminal behaviour of the Tories. However, as someone who belongs to one of those mainstream parties, I don’t subscribe to revolutions. A person who leads one probably isn’t the right person to run the country afterwards, but those who seize power don’t do so in order to relinquish it immediately. And we’d still have to exist in a global economy, unless we wanted to be a pariah state like North Korea.

For further discussion of this topic:-
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t955-you-say-you-want-a-revolution

As usual i'm afraid Redflag, despite our anger and dismay Ivan always speaks the voice of thought.
When thatcher was in power our trade unions were pretty strong, but she broke us like a dried out twig the bitch.
They have never recovered.

Ivan - I'm too depressed even to comment - what you say rings true - what are we going to do about it?

Well boatlady what can we do about it? either Ed Miliband begins to get stronger in parliament, and attracts more votes than the Tories and the TORY / UKIPs even if the lib/dems do get any votes worth counting.
Otherwise we are shot for another 4-5 years are we not?

I just hope you are WRONG Stuart another 5 years of a Tory gov't the Labour party will never be forgiven for leaving us to the nastiness of the Tories/Ukip

Not the Labour party Redflag, but old ED will not be forgiven, it will just need a new leader.

boatlady wrote:-
I'm too depressed even to comment - what you say rings true - what are we going to do about it?

Revolutions almost always involve bloodshed and a loss of innocent lives, and I’m sure that history repeats itself insofar as similar situations similarly handled lead to similar results. If anyone tried to start a revolution in this country, I don’t doubt that Mrs Windsor would be sent out on horseback to tell the revolutionaries that “subjects you are and subjects you will remain”. Then they would all go home and wait for the government to charge them with sedition, just as the peasants of Kent and Essex did in 1381. I’ve taught 20th century history but I’ve never found out why the General Strike of 1926 was called off after just nine days; were the union leaders afraid that it might succeed? No, we may have had something akin to revolutions in the 1640s and in 1688, but they were power struggles amongst the elite rather than popular uprisings; the British don’t ‘do’ revolutions.

So what can we as individuals do to try and improve things in 2014? Pragmatists can join Labour, which is the only party with any chance of replacing the Tories in government. Purists can join the Green Party or the TUSC or Left Unity. Those in Wales might consider Plaid Cymru, which seems to be left-inclined; both Nerys Evans and its leader Leanne Wood have been impressive on the rare occasions that they, unlike UKIP, have been invited on to the BBC’s ‘Question Time’. By joining a political party, our membership fees and any other contributions we are able to make help pay for some publicity to counter the constant drip-drip of right-wing propaganda in the Tory-dominated media. Anyone with the time to spare and who is in reasonable health can take to the streets to ‘spread the word’. I know that in our 108 target seats, we have a ‘Labour doorstep’ campaign which is active most weekends.

Fortunately the power of the press is declining as fewer and fewer people buy newspapers; that may be why the papers seem to be more shrill with their comments these days, as they struggle to make their proprietors’ opinions heard by as many people as possible. So far those on the right haven’t found a way to control the social media, but they’re working on it. Until they succeed, those who have Facebook or Twitter accounts can build up their number of friends and followers and thereby communicate with many people rapidly.

I don’t use Facebook but I admit to being addicted to Twitter. For me it has five purposes. Firstly, to support Labour candidates in forthcoming elections, especially the next general election. Secondly, as a short cut to obtaining interesting news articles to use as sources or simply share on Cutting Edge. Thirdly, to circulate items which have been posted here, whilst at the same time advertising this site. Fourthly, to find new members for Cutting Edge, something which has not been very successful, since it seems that most of those who enjoy posting 140-character soundbites either don’t like writing anything much longer or have their own websites. Fifthly, to make new friends, and at that I have been successful.

Online petitions, marches, lobbying MPs - there’s always something we can be doing, and on occasions that might just mean posting at Cutting Edge. Even though this forum may seem very quiet at times, its posts are read by lots of guests (look at the figures for ‘views’ for some of the threads). In any case, even when it may seem that we’re losing the fight against the right, the war is never lost. As the late Tony Benn told us: "Every generation must fight the same battles again and again. There's no final victory and there's no final defeat". In other words, the conflict between the interests of capital and labour continues. You only have to read ‘The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists’ to see that Benn was right; I suppose that is depressing.

I’m afraid we’ve wandered a long way from the topic of this thread, which was started nearly three years ago after an opinion poll put the Tories slightly ahead. Clearly Ed Miliband wasn’t “living on borrowed time” and will lead Labour into the general election in May. With the fluid state of the parties, especially following the damage caused to Labour by being seen on the same side as the Tories in the Scottish referendum, I’m not so confident these days of an outright Labour victory. That definitely is depressing.

Oh dear Ivan.
I have already made my prediction have I not, I wonder what your's will be nearer the time?

There was a slightly ambiguous lyric to a 1960s song-hit which ran something like, "If you can't be with the One you love, Love the one you're with.

Dubious morality, but relevant to the UK political situation in the run-up to a General Election. The Coalition has been a total disaster, and were UKIP to gain power the future would look even worse than the past five years.

What we're left with is a Labour Party as the only practical alternative. It doesn't matter whether you have any credence in Ed Miliband, the alternatives are all worse. Vote Labour or suffer the consequences.

Learn to love the ones we're with OW, UURRGGHH CAN you do that with the Tory party?

oftenwrong wrote:What we're left with is a Labour Party as the only practical alternative.  It doesn't matter whether you have any credence in Ed Miliband, the alternatives are all worse.  Vote Labour or suffer the consequences.

To be honest OW I think Ed Miliband will be a good PM, but he has to watch what he is saying before the G.E so that he attracts enough votes to get a majority in the HOC so that he can overturn the nasty bill this coalition put through.

I think Ed Milliband would be an AWESOME Prime Minister - but people have got to wean themselves off this desire for quick-fix easy solutions to systemic problems that started at the end of the Industrial Revolution .
As a country, we need to feel our way forward in a greatly changed world, seeking always a reasonable prosperity for ALL, based on universal access to social goods such as decent housing, health care and education, while maintaining positive and ethical relationships with other countries in the world.
I think Ed understands that, and will honestly try to achieve a decent outcome for everyone if he is given the chance.

Sadly that's not a dramatic message that will resonate loudly with a panicked population - the cynical manipulators in UKIP understand that.

"I’ve never found out why the General Strike of 1926 was called off after just nine days."

I think the TUC caved in because, inter alia a growing number of Britons were becoming volunteers, desperate to get the country back on its feet following The Great War. The Baldwin government had put tanks on the streets of London and thousands of extra Police in sensitive areas (ring a bell?).

Those were also times during which the general population were much more deferential than we are now.

Cameron's glee at demanding "English MPs vote alone on English matters" may turn out to be prematurely irrelevant.

Exactly OW, BUT!! wait til after the election to see the full result.

One of the key planks in the ‘Yes’ campaign was that by becoming independent, Scotland would become a Tory-free zone for ever and ever. A nice sentiment for anyone, but it lacked credibility because Salmond had no plans for a separate Scottish currency and even planned on keeping the monarchy, moves which, as Gordon Brown pointed out, would have made Scotland little more than a British colony.

I think the SNP will gain some seats in the general election. However, without wishing to sound complacent, when minds are concentrated on who will be ruling the UK after 7 May next year, I can’t believe that as many canny Scots as current polls predict will want to do anything which might see another Tory government at Westminster.

I'm really sorry folks, but I have to stick to my prediction for election results for another bloody Tory victory, co-alition with UKIP.

On his way to a meeting, and pursued by photographers, Ed Miliband saw a young Romanian girl begging, He stopped and gave her some money. So what?

‘The Daily Mail’ said that “following his clumsy attempt at eating a bacon sandwich earlier this year…… he looked awkward”. According to that filthy lying rag, Ed Miliband gave the girl 2p. According to the girl, he put 60-70p in her paper cup.

On ‘The Daily Politics’ today, John Bird, the founder of the ‘Big Issue’ magazine, attacked Ed Miliband for giving the girl anything, saying that you have to give people “a hand up, not a handout”.  Can you just imagine what the scum press would have said if Ed had walked past and not put something in her cup?

So whatever Ed Miliband does is wrong. His immigrant father, who fought for us in the Second World War, was also wrong. Apparently Ed looks ‘weird’, not something you could ever say about Pickles, Gove, Hague, Redwood or Osborne’s facial expressions during PMQs, of course.  

Do you ever wonder why the Tory gutter press find it necessary to persist in this character assassination? Could it be that they’re frightened of Ed Miliband, who has stood up to Murdoch and the energy companies and prevented a British attack on Syria? If he is as insignificant as the right-wing press like to tell us, why do they bother to attack him constantly?  

In 2010, Murdoch’s all-out attack on Gordon Brown helped Cameron to crawl into Downing Street, although he needed the assistance of Nick Clegg. In 2013, Murdoch chose the knucklehead Tony Abbott (one of the few people who can make George ‘Dubya’ Bush look half intelligent) to be PM of Australia, and the sheep duly voted him in. After watching American turkeys vote for an early Christmas last night, I despair of how many British idiots will react in the required way to the vitriolic attacks on Ed Miliband. But what grieves me most of all is that some people on this forum can’t see further than the end of their noses and respond in exactly the way that Paul Dacre, Rupert Murdoch, Lynton Crosby and Grant Shapps are hoping they will.

A Labour government led by Ed Miliband after next May would repeal the NHS Act and the bedroom tax, control rents, build more houses and bring in a mansion tax. If you let the Tories stay in power, expect further tax cuts for millionaires (and a VAT rise to pay for it), the full privatisation of the NHS with charges, the decimation of what is left of the welfare state and the legalisation of foxhunting. Keep knocking the only man who can replace Cameron as PM and that’s what you’ll get. And when hundreds more people die because that psychopath Iain Duncan Smith is still in charge of welfare, I hope you'll be able to sleep at night.

" But what grieves me most of all is that some people on this forum can’t see further than the end of their noses..."

Names, names...

What does that mean Phil?

If the Tories have a stake in the next government it will not be the fault of anyone on this board.

The blame will lie firmly and squarely on the shoulders of the man who is meant to be the Leader of the Opposition, but who has failed miserably to put up a squeak of a decent challenge to Cameron - who should have been a sitting duck with all the vicious acts he and his merry band of willing criminals have performed.

Ivan it is those that follow the shit media that will vote for CAMERON,AND ALSO SPREAD THE WORD FOR HIM.
I do not believe any on this forum will do you?

QUOTE: If he is as insignificant as the right-wing press like to tell us, why do they bother to attack him constantly?


Individual opinions (unless they are the opinions of someone who happens to own a newspaper) are unlikely to reach a wider audience, so to a certain extent Miliband, Cameron, Clegg, Farage et al will not be losing much sleep over what has been ventilated on social networks.  The Ballot Box will say it all when the time comes.

There are plenty of age-old aphorisms (softly, softly catchee monkey; everything comes to he who waits; more haste less speed) etc., etc., can all be used in the defence of current Labour strategy - which is apparently to wait and watch whilst the various components of right-wing politics dash each other to pieces.

Patience is a virtue.  Fools rush in.  Rome wasn't built in a day.  Great Oaks from little acorns.  What's your favourite cliché?

Ed cannot get a straight answer from Cameron at PMQ's and is often left embarrassed following cheap jibs from Cameron and the rest of the Tory led government. I have often wondered what would happen if Ed were to stand, when called by the speaker, and just say he has no intention of wasting his time asking a question because he does not get an answer just a load of Tory sound bites?
Would the country think anything less of him or would they say 'it's about time someone told Cameron get real.....

It's also time former Labour MPs stopped sniping from the sidelines, it's beginning to look and sound like when Kinnock was leader.......

"it's beginning to look and sound like when Kinnock was leader......."

Perhaps we could have an American-style rabble-rousing type of noisy Convention, astradt ....

(Or perhaps not)

Definitely not please OW.

I’m not deluded enough to think that the comments of a few members of Cutting Edge will decide the outcome of the next election. I just feel sad that some of the people here, who are more interested in politics and more astute than the average voter, seem to subscribe to the narrative written by Dacre, Murdoch, Crosby and Shapps.

Ed Miliband isn’t sitting on his backside doing nothing all day, but the reptiles aren’t interested in reporting any positive news about him. Maybe this is the reason why (and that's before we mention the BBC):-


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1nQzGgIEAAtbHl.jpg

Ivan just because I believe that the Tories will be voted back in, does not mean that I take any notice of the Tory press, it is only your assumption that I do.

"What's your favourite cliché?"

How about : 'He who hesitates is lost'?

Now Phil did you take any notice of the Tory press/media?

Oh yes, Stuart - I naturally hang on every word of the Daily Mail and The Sun before I post anything.

Without those organs of prompting, I would scarcely know what to think.

Perish the thought that any criticism from me of Ed Miliband could possibly have been generated by any personal reflection of his abilities and effectiveness...

You are joking Phil or Ivan would go spare

Night is darkest immediately before the Dawn.

Red sky in the morning - Murdoch's warning...