Does any religion matter at all today?
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Does any religion matter at all today?
by Stox 16 Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:35 am
First topic message reminder :
I will be interested to read peoples thoughts on this question. Does any Religion matter at all today?
I cannot see that any religious church's or anything religious even matters today at all. The only true religion I have ever come across is, Money, Political Power, Land, and greed. all the things we are told they are against, this goes for all religions too in my view.
in fact all the faiths I have come across use all of the tools of money, political power, Land and greed to re-force there religious views on there followers. i have never come across any religion that does not use at least one of this tools to enforce there religious views on the people they are said to be looking after.
I have read over the years all the religious books i can find, and have yet too be moved by any of them. some have very good stories that have something in them for every reader. but their it ends for me. maybe someone can explain why any of this is so important today? as i cannot find anything within the books that states this is very important today or in the past. I myself have come to believe that religion has more to do with the thought of death or dying and the human need to believe that life goes on after death.
However, when we was all born we did not feel pain or come into being with some religious thought in our heads or a book in our hands did we? in fact we had know idea about religion at all? so only find out what religion we are when someone tells us that this is our religion? yet you would think we would all know this already if there was a god? So we only find out what our religion is after birth? or do you believe you know what you religion was before birth? (i did not) if someone told me i was a follower of Islam, I would of said OK at five years old. in fact they could of given me any religion and i would of said fine.
So religion seems to me, religion only matters a get deal more the older you get? so I am told, well if so its failing on me badly. so anyway, it matter more as you get closer to death then? so is this more to do with our human need for life to go on somehow? as we find it hard to believe that life comes to an end and we go into darkness of no mans land? just like before we was born?
I was told at about 6 years old by my mother that this was my faith. but in total truth my mother could of said any faith was my religion and i would of gone along with what she said. To me that was it, Its that simple then. i did not then think about anything religious till i was in the Army in standing in a street in the middle of green line in a war zone in the Lebanon. with both Christains killing, Muslims Killing, Catholic Maronite's Killing, Druze faith Killing, Jewish killing. at first wondering why they was all doing this? not for religion or faith but power and using religion to justify there actions. I remember thinking. just suppose these people had been given a different religion by there mothers. they would instead of killing as a Maronite gunman they would of been killing Maronite's as a Druze gunman?
So your religion is picked for you in my view and some even change it too. yet you would think if you know your god at your death. you should know who you god is before birth? but we do not. So does any of this really matter any more?
well i well be interrested to read your thought on this. its not about any one religion but all of them.
I will be interested to read peoples thoughts on this question. Does any Religion matter at all today?
I cannot see that any religious church's or anything religious even matters today at all. The only true religion I have ever come across is, Money, Political Power, Land, and greed. all the things we are told they are against, this goes for all religions too in my view.
in fact all the faiths I have come across use all of the tools of money, political power, Land and greed to re-force there religious views on there followers. i have never come across any religion that does not use at least one of this tools to enforce there religious views on the people they are said to be looking after.
I have read over the years all the religious books i can find, and have yet too be moved by any of them. some have very good stories that have something in them for every reader. but their it ends for me. maybe someone can explain why any of this is so important today? as i cannot find anything within the books that states this is very important today or in the past. I myself have come to believe that religion has more to do with the thought of death or dying and the human need to believe that life goes on after death.
However, when we was all born we did not feel pain or come into being with some religious thought in our heads or a book in our hands did we? in fact we had know idea about religion at all? so only find out what religion we are when someone tells us that this is our religion? yet you would think we would all know this already if there was a god? So we only find out what our religion is after birth? or do you believe you know what you religion was before birth? (i did not) if someone told me i was a follower of Islam, I would of said OK at five years old. in fact they could of given me any religion and i would of said fine.
So religion seems to me, religion only matters a get deal more the older you get? so I am told, well if so its failing on me badly. so anyway, it matter more as you get closer to death then? so is this more to do with our human need for life to go on somehow? as we find it hard to believe that life comes to an end and we go into darkness of no mans land? just like before we was born?
I was told at about 6 years old by my mother that this was my faith. but in total truth my mother could of said any faith was my religion and i would of gone along with what she said. To me that was it, Its that simple then. i did not then think about anything religious till i was in the Army in standing in a street in the middle of green line in a war zone in the Lebanon. with both Christains killing, Muslims Killing, Catholic Maronite's Killing, Druze faith Killing, Jewish killing. at first wondering why they was all doing this? not for religion or faith but power and using religion to justify there actions. I remember thinking. just suppose these people had been given a different religion by there mothers. they would instead of killing as a Maronite gunman they would of been killing Maronite's as a Druze gunman?
So your religion is picked for you in my view and some even change it too. yet you would think if you know your god at your death. you should know who you god is before birth? but we do not. So does any of this really matter any more?
well i well be interrested to read your thought on this. its not about any one religion but all of them.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by snowyflake Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:00 am
Comments and observations about the quoted text.
The “ist’s” that identify me are (1) once-upon-a-long-time-ago nascent physicist, (2) armchair animal behaviorist, (3) social scientist, and (4) Texas bar-b-que eatist.
Irrelevant to the post.
There is a huge and significant difference between “observed in field and laboratory studies” and “believe to have taken thousands or millions of years to occur.”
No. One provides evidence and supports the other.
Yes, you are. You believe that micro-evolution is true but macro-evolution is not true and therefore must have a designer. You regularly dispute aspects of evolution.I am not one of the “anti-evolution movement proponents.”
When was it observed, where was it observed, and what specifically was observed?
Read the scientific papers in the hundreds of journals which will explain this to you in detail.
I don’t care what is or isn’t “supported by the scientific community”; I don’t care what is or isn’t supported (or rejected) by any “community. I care what is. Steady State was accepted by the astrophysicist and astronomer communities, and a knighted, once-renowned physicist went to his grave holding on to this belief; his stature didn’t change one whit the data that discredits Steady State.
Of course it changed because Big Bang is now the accepted theory. That's what science does. It evolves.
Read the scientific papers in the hundreds of journals which will explain this to you in detail.”Show me the money”, show me the video.
Yes. And?Steady State was the dominant scientific paradigm for explaining the “origin” of the universe.
So? It isn't now is it so obviously there was disagreement somewhere or we'd still be pounding Steady State. The empirical observations altered the scientific view based on evidence.Steady State was not disputed within the scientific community.
The phrase “tenets of the theory forged” differs significantly from the phrase “truths of nature discovered.”
"Truths of nature discovered" is not mentioned in the wikipedia article. the word truth is not mentioned anywhere in the article. Science deals with evidence and the reasonable conclusions that can be drawn from them.
Belief in God and a designer deals with faith and the irrational and unevidenced conclusions that can be drawn from imagination.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by tlttf Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:00 am
Tosh wrote:I would like to know how many people read my posts, go on flatter me.
Wouldn't miss them Tosh, love the way you tear Mr Monotonous apart and watch him change the subject or ignore it completely
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:04 am
What our nascent physicist pretends to be is a precise thinker, and he is just not very good at it, he tries to disguise his religious objections to common ancestry with a thicket of repetitive flatulence.
Common ancestry is implausible until science physically shows him a video of a primate evolving into a human, but unlike the steady state he offers no evidence against it nor an alternative hypothesis.
So lets have a look at what Futuyma really says about common ancestry:
So much for macro-evoution being forged.
http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/futuyma.html
Common ancestry is implausible until science physically shows him a video of a primate evolving into a human, but unlike the steady state he offers no evidence against it nor an alternative hypothesis.
So lets have a look at what Futuyma really says about common ancestry:
Does natural selection lead to new species, and if so, how?
It sometimes does but not always. A great deal of evolution by natural selection can happen without the formation of new species. Natural selection is only the process of adaptation within species, and we see many examples of that. Under some circumstances natural selection does play a role in the origin of new species, by which I mean a splitting of one species lineage into two different lineages that do not interbreed with one another — for example, the splitting of one ancestral primate lineage into one that became today’s chimpanzee and the other that became the hominid line resulting in our own species. The process of splitting and becoming reproductively isolated, that is, incapable of breeding with one another, can often involve natural selection but perhaps not always.
Why does natural selection pose a threat philosophically to some people?
Futuyma: The philosopher Daniel Dennett called natural selection “Darwin’s dangerous idea” for a good reason: it is a very simple natural mechanism that explains the appearance of design in living things. Before Darwin, the adaptations and exquisite complexity of organisms were ascribed to creation by an omnipotent, beneficent designer, namely God, and indeed were among the major arguments for the existence of such a designer. Darwin’s (and Wallace’s) concept of natural selection made this “argument from design” completely superfluous. It accomplished for biology what Newton and his successors had accomplished in physics: it provided a purely natural explanation for order and the appearance of design. It made the features of organisms explicable by processes that can be studied by science instead of ascribing them to miracles. The contemporary “intelligent design” movement is simply a repetition of the predarwinian argument, and of course it cannot be taken seriously as a scientific explanation of the properties of living things.
So much for macro-evoution being forged.
http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/futuyma.html
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:21 am
I cannot believe how dishonest my friend from Texas has become, its truly desperate, talk about selective editing.
THE FORGERY IS THE IMAGINED DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MACRO AND MICRO EVOLUTION.
Intellectually dishonest.
Describing the fundamental similarity between Macro and Microevolution in his authoritative textbook "Evolutionary Biology," biologist Douglas Futuyma writes,
“ One of the most important tenets of the theory forged during the Evolutionary Synthesis of the 1930s and 1940s was that "macroevolutionary" differences among organisms - those that distinguish higher taxa - arise from the accumulation of the same kinds of genetic differences that are found within species. Opponents of this point of view believed that "macroevolution" is qualitatively different from "microevolution" within species, and is based on a totally different kind of genetic and developmental patterning... Genetic studies of species differences have decisively disproved [this] claim. Differences between species in morphology, behavior, and the processes that underlie reproductive isolation all have the same genetic properties as variation within species: they occupy consistent chromosomal positions, they may be polygenic or based on few genes, they may display additive, dominant, or epistatic effects, and they can in some instances be traved to specifiable differences in proteins or DNA nucleotide sequences. The degree of reproductive isolation between populations, whether prezygotic or postzygotic, varies from little or none to complete. Thus, reproductive isolation, like the divergence of any other character, evolves in most cases by the gradual substitution of alleles in populations.
THE FORGERY IS THE IMAGINED DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MACRO AND MICRO EVOLUTION.
Intellectually dishonest.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:44 am
So the creationist roundabout just keeps spinning, common ancestry has not been proven to their satisfaction which deems it implausible.
But there is something missing, where is the alternative explanation for the diversity of life, if species did not evolve from a common ancestor then where in the blazes did all the species come from ?
Texas sitting with his scientific hat on refuses to speculate but won't discount any possibility, but what other possibilities are there ?
Well, there just happens to be an old bronze age theory that states a deity made them all, it is a bit fuzzy on how it did this but lets not get too hung up on minor details. Now the evidence suggests this is implausible but we have missed the trick, the deity doesn't deal in human plausibility, the ascribed properties make the deity immune to logic.
But there is something missing, where is the alternative explanation for the diversity of life, if species did not evolve from a common ancestor then where in the blazes did all the species come from ?
Texas sitting with his scientific hat on refuses to speculate but won't discount any possibility, but what other possibilities are there ?
Well, there just happens to be an old bronze age theory that states a deity made them all, it is a bit fuzzy on how it did this but lets not get too hung up on minor details. Now the evidence suggests this is implausible but we have missed the trick, the deity doesn't deal in human plausibility, the ascribed properties make the deity immune to logic.
Last edited by Tosh on Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:43 am
Richard Dawkins described common ancestry deniers as delusional on the grounds they reject incontrovertible evidence. To put this into another context, creationists believe it is implausible and unsupported BUT the people who are actually qualified to make a judgement consider it an " evidence based fact ".
Creationists don't care what a geneticist thinks about genetics nor do they care what a micro-biologist thinks about biology, they care about what they think about subjects they do not even understand.
Can some one please explain to me why God used a chimp template to make humans and then fused a pair of chromosomes to make us in his image, is G*d a chromosome away from being a m*nk*y, sorry about using no vowels, its a sign of reverance......not sure about the " y ", hope i don't go to hell for my bad grammar.
Creationists don't care what a geneticist thinks about genetics nor do they care what a micro-biologist thinks about biology, they care about what they think about subjects they do not even understand.
Can some one please explain to me why God used a chimp template to make humans and then fused a pair of chromosomes to make us in his image, is G*d a chromosome away from being a m*nk*y, sorry about using no vowels, its a sign of reverance......not sure about the " y ", hope i don't go to hell for my bad grammar.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by polyglide Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:21 am
God did not use a chimp to create the human, although some humans do behave with less intelligence.
I believe in instant creation of the individual.
If you believe in evolution then just explain how man with all the evidence and abilities could evolve to any other species or, you say it all came about by chance and natural selection, so show me how you could grow another arm leg or three eyes and create another species.
I believe in instant creation of the individual.
If you believe in evolution then just explain how man with all the evidence and abilities could evolve to any other species or, you say it all came about by chance and natural selection, so show me how you could grow another arm leg or three eyes and create another species.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 11:24 am
If you believe in evolution then just explain how man with all the evidence and abilities could evolve to any other species or, you say it all came about by chance and natural selection, so show me how you could grow another arm leg or three eyes and create another species.
http://thehumanmarvels.com/31/bill-durks-the-man-with-three-eyes/deformity
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:23 pm
God did not use a chimp to create the human,
Then you will have no difficulty in explaining why we have a fused chromosome.
All members of Hominidae except humans have 24 pairs of chromosomes. Humans have only 23 pairs of chromosomes. Human chromosome 2 is widely accepted to be a result of an end-to-end fusion of two ancestral chromosomes.
The evidence for this includes:
The correspondence of chromosome 2 to two ape chromosomes. The closest human relative, the chimpanzee, has near-identical DNA sequences to human chromosome 2, but they are found in two separate chromosomes. The same is true of the more distant gorilla and orangutan.[5][6]
The presence of a vestigial centromere. Normally a chromosome has just one centromere, but in chromosome 2 there are remnants of a second centromere.[7]
The presence of vestigial telomeres. These are normally found only at the ends of a chromosome, but in chromosome 2 there are additional telomere sequences in the middle.[8]
Chromosome 2 presents very strong evidence in favour of the common descent of humans and other apes. According to researcher J. W. IJdo, "We conclude that the locus cloned in cosmids c8.1 and c29B is the relic of an ancient telomere-telomere fusion and marks the point at which two ancestral ape chromosomes fused to give rise to human chromosome 2." [8]
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 12:45 pm
I believe in instant creation of the individual.
I believe you are insane, there we go, its a stalemate, lets go bowling.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:47 pm
Is it a coincidence that the oldest religion in Asia untarnished by neanderthal hybrids creates religions like Buddhism and Hinduism, gentle souls who don't wear shoes and ring little bells, hardly Elmer Gantry.
Nutters are worried about us coming from chimps, I am more concerned about my neanderthal ancestry.
Okie Dokie, time to start a genome project, everyone gets scanned for the sociopath gene, those who are positive are forced to join the army, police or prison service, they like to wear uniforms( high status) and like to have power over their fellow humans( alpha male).
Nutters are worried about us coming from chimps, I am more concerned about my neanderthal ancestry.
Okie Dokie, time to start a genome project, everyone gets scanned for the sociopath gene, those who are positive are forced to join the army, police or prison service, they like to wear uniforms( high status) and like to have power over their fellow humans( alpha male).
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Guest Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:57 pm
.
Last edited by RockOnBrother on Thu May 02, 2013 3:35 am; edited 2 times in total
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by snowyflake Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:36 pm
Rock, I think you think the word 'posit' means making stuff up. I showed several links that show you how the eye could have evolved. All of them are reasonable hypotheses. There is evidence to support them. You are free to think about it or discard it. But you have made your mind up and so it's a bit pointless to carry on a discussion that is more about the semantics of words than the topic of macro-evolution.
You believe you are right and that belief will not be swayed even if there was evidence that proved (to you) without doubt that evolution by natural selection is what explains biodiversity. You would still find a way to make God the grand designer/creator. Even with the evidence available you still thumb your nose at it and debate about words rather than the context.
You have a good mind but it is so heavily indoctrinated, I doubt you will ever see the light of reason.
I find this disheartening and sad. Seeking truth means actually looking at the evidence and making unbiased conclusions but you can't because God is there in your mind constantly pushing away anything that casts doubt on his existence and you will not do anything to upset your God.
Take care.
You believe you are right and that belief will not be swayed even if there was evidence that proved (to you) without doubt that evolution by natural selection is what explains biodiversity. You would still find a way to make God the grand designer/creator. Even with the evidence available you still thumb your nose at it and debate about words rather than the context.
You have a good mind but it is so heavily indoctrinated, I doubt you will ever see the light of reason.
I find this disheartening and sad. Seeking truth means actually looking at the evidence and making unbiased conclusions but you can't because God is there in your mind constantly pushing away anything that casts doubt on his existence and you will not do anything to upset your God.
Take care.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by oftenwrong Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:37 pm
OW's Law:
Posts expand to fill the time available for their composition.
Posts expand to fill the time available for their composition.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by snowyflake Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:03 pm
OW's Law:
Posts expand to fill the time available for their composition.
Is that why yours are so short and meaningless?
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:14 pm
Snowy,
Texas doesn't want THE evidence, he wants you to show him HIS evidence, which like his God and scholarship actually does not exist.
Texas doesn't want THE evidence, he wants you to show him HIS evidence, which like his God and scholarship actually does not exist.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:16 pm
You have a good mind
Snowy,
Time for you to have a lie down, you are starting to hallucinate, his bullshit semantic evasion doesn't fool me, and I doubt it fools you.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by snowyflake Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:21 pm
There is enough solid evidence, Tosh, that shows that evolution is a fact, both macro and micro. Yet, it is still ignored. No amount of evidence is convincing enough for creationists.
It's like they think their heads will explode if they stop believing in God.
Anyway, how are you? Any sunshine you can send our way. We are freezing in the south.
It's like they think their heads will explode if they stop believing in God.
Anyway, how are you? Any sunshine you can send our way. We are freezing in the south.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by snowyflake Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:27 pm
Time for you to have a lie down,
you are starting to hallucinate, his bullshit semantic evasion doesn't fool me, and I doubt it fools you.
Do chickpeas make you hallucinate?
You have to have a good mind to perform the kind of mental acrobatics that goes on in believers' minds to make God real to them in spite of all the evidence falling down around them. When people are rescued from religious cults they sometimes go through a deprogramming and the smartest ones are always the hardest to deprogram. Their delusion is solid and supported by their own made up evidence.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Shirina Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:31 pm
I believe in instant creation of the individual.
If you believe in evolution then just explain
No, polyglide, I think myself and the rest of the evolutionists need to stop coddling you. We have done our measured best to point you to places where your questions are ANSWERED, and I am really getting sick of this lame-ass argument you keep making - saying WE have to explain it in our own words without referring to any outside sources. You know, I graduated college so I wouldn't have to take any more exams.
As any good US lawyer would say, "Objection, your honor. Asked and answered."
We don't have to explain anything else.
What I would REALLY like is for you to explain "instant creation of the individual" and your belief in magic, socerery, wizardry, and the arcane arts. What sort of spells were cast to poof a human into existence? Were runes necessary? What kind of components were needed - Eye of Newt, perhaps? The tears of a virgin? a dragon's tooth? Is a bubbling cauldron necessary or could it be done with just a pot of boiling water on the stove? Do you need to inscribe a protective circle on the ground just in case the spell goes awry? Can it be cast by yourself or do you need helpers named Sabrina, Samantha, and Tabitha?
Oh yeah, and you have to explain it in your own words. You can't quote from Merlin, Gandalf, Elminster, Harry Potter, Sabrina the Teen-Age Witch, Samantha Stevens, David Copperfield, Cris Angel, or anyone else.
Last edited by Shirina on Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Guest Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:32 pm
snowyflake wrote:
Rock, I think you think the word 'posit' means making stuff up.
You think incorrectly.
snowyflake wrote:
I showed several links that show you how the eye could have evolved.
You’ve provided links that tell me how the eye could have macro-evolved, with no videos or field notes accompanying the telling.
Since Dallas County District Attorney Craig Watkins took office in 2006 (I believe), Texas prisons, upon receiving court orders, have released (last count) thirty wrongfully convicted men whose wrongful convictions were accomplished by three hundred twenty-four jurors (thirty juries times twelve jurors each) believing that evidence presented at thirty trials constituted proof beyond a reasonable doubt of thirty innocent men’s guilt.
Jurors are human, scientists are human, and all can and do wrongly conclude.
snowyflake wrote:
All of them are reasonable hypotheses.
I conclude that any hypothesis that posits macro-evolutionary origin of the eye is an unreasonable hypothesis. “Show me the money”, and I might conclude otherwise.
snowyflake wrote:
… you have made your mind up…
Nope. Insufficient observational evidence has made my mind up; thus, if and when I am “shown the money”, my mind very well may be unmade up. Money talks.
snowyflake wrote:
… that belief will not be swayed even if there was evidence that proved (to you) without doubt that evolution by natural selection is what explains biodiversity.
Absent proof, you’ll never know.
You have a good mind but it is so heavily indoctrinated…
[/quote]
I seek truth, not doctrine, thus, my mind, by my choice, is “in-truth-ated” rather than “in-doctrine-ated.”
snowyflake wrote:
… I doubt you will ever see the light of reason.
I doubt that I will ever not see the light of reason
snowyflake wrote:
Seeking truth means actually looking at the evidence and making unbiased conclusions…
Now you’ve got it. I hope you one day join me in doing so.
And you take care of your loved ones and yourself.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Guest Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:35 pm
oftenwrong wrote:
OW's Law:
Posts expand to fill the time available for their composition.
Many laws are lawless.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by snowyflake Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:36 pm
Nope. Insufficient observational evidence has made my mind up; thus, if and when I am “shown the money”, my mind very well may be unmade up. Money talks.
I'm guessing you have eyes Rock. They evolved along with the rest of the species on the planet. Are you suggesting that the rest of evolution is true but God created eyes? This kind of thinking is nonsense.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Shirina Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:38 pm
“Show me the money”, show me the evidence that micro-evolution of canis lupus provides evidence for and supports macro-evolution of the eye.
I would like to see some cash flow, too, Rock.
So why not show me the evidence that life was poofed here by a magical god. Let's start seeing some REAL evidence that can be tested, reproduced, and verified - not mystical writings in a 3000 year-old book written by desert tribesmen.
You can start by explaining why an all-knowing, all-powerful God would design humans to eat and breathe through the same pipe with the understanding that this would cause thousands of needless, tragic deaths due to choking just in the US alone. Did this God think it would be funny watching people turn blue and die for the great sin of eating too big a bite of steak? Surely as a "Texas bbq eatist," you would have some insights on that.
By the way, here's the brisket.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Shirina Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:41 pm
I conclude that any hypothesis that posits macro-evolutionary origin of the eye is an unreasonable hypothesis.
First of all, thanks for admitting your confirmation bias.
But secondly, more importantly, I conclude that any hypothesis that posits the origin of the eye involves supernatural entities and lorry-loads of magic is an unreasonable hypothesis.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Shirina Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:43 pm
Nope. Insufficient observational evidence has made my mind up; thus, if and when I am “shown the money”, my mind very well may be unmade up. Money talks.
That must mean religion is deep in debt as religion hasn't made a payment in the last 50,000 years. I bet the debt collectors have whole buildings dedicated to collecting on religion.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by snowyflake Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:44 pm
I seek truth, not doctrine, thus, my mind, by my choice, is “in-truth-ated” rather than “in-doctrine-ated.”
In order to get at truth, you have to put aside that big block of doctrine that stands in the way of your reason.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Shirina Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:47 pm
no videos, of that which you assert has been observed. If videos are nonexistent, I’ll take field notes of credible eyewitness observers in their stead
Seriously, Rock, I KNOW you're better than this - using one of the cheapest arguments in the creationist's book. "Since we haven't seen x turn into y in the course of a video (much less in one human lifetime), then macro-evolution can't exist!"
I mean, really ... if it happened that fast, then it would be MICRO-evolution, so what you're asking for is, by definition, impossible. Macro-evolution vs. micro-evolution is not 15 minutes vs. half an hour.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:57 pm
Seriously, Rock, I KNOW you're better than this - using one of the cheapest arguments in the creationist's book.
Ahem....you think he is better than this but where is your evidence, show me the money ?
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Shirina Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:01 pm
OW's Law:
Well, I think I've let this go on for far too long.
I think everyone is well aware of your contempt for religious discussions - and perhaps that contempt carries over to the participants as well. No one says you have to participate in these debates, but I would ask that you show some mutual respect for those that do. Obviously, judging from the responses to your posts, people are getting irritated - and I can see why.
After all, I notice you participate in debates/discussions on UK economics - and I don't see folks from the religious threads over there sniping away at the topic itself or the people who post there.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Guest Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:02 pm
snowyflake wrote:I'm guessing you have eyes Rock.Nope. Insufficient observational evidence has made my mind up; thus, if and when I am “shown the money”, my mind very well may be unmade up. Money talks.
Non-macro-evolved eyes for sure.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:03 pm
Creationists invent a distinction then insist you PROVE it, the evolution from magic to fraud by supernatural selection.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:06 pm
I think everyone is well aware of your contempt for religious discussions - and perhaps that contempt carries over to the participants as well. No one says you have to participate in these debates, but I would ask that you show some mutual respect for those that do. Obviously, judging from the responses to your posts, people are getting irritated - and I can see why.
His pretentious pomposity is his soul and you want him to give it up....shame on you.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Guest Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:09 pm
RockOnBrother wrote:
“Show me the money”, show me the evidence that micro-evolution of canis lupus provides evidence for and supports macro-evolution of the eye.
Shirina wrote:
I would like to see some cash flow, too, Rock.
So why not show me the evidence that life was poofed here by a magical god.
I can’t show you evidence of something about which I know nothing.
Last edited by RockOnBrother on Thu May 02, 2013 3:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:15 pm
I can observe the fossil record clearly showing a chronological pattern of simplicity to complexity that coincides with the DNA record.
I can observe transitional fossils clearly showing species evolution.
I can observe genetic mutation.
I can observe the common structure and history of DNA.
I can observe natural selection.
I can observe atavism and vestigial organs.
I can observe fused primate Chromosomes in humans.
I can observe whales and dolphins with limbs.
I can observe a man with 3 eyes.
No point in showing you the money, you are blind.
I can observe transitional fossils clearly showing species evolution.
I can observe genetic mutation.
I can observe the common structure and history of DNA.
I can observe natural selection.
I can observe atavism and vestigial organs.
I can observe fused primate Chromosomes in humans.
I can observe whales and dolphins with limbs.
I can observe a man with 3 eyes.
No point in showing you the money, you are blind.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Guest Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:16 pm
RockOnBrother wrote:
I conclude that any hypothesis that posits macro-evolutionary origin of the eye is an unreasonable hypothesis.
Shirina wrote:
First of all, thanks for admitting your confirmation bias.
I don’t have it; I have a conclusion that any hypothesis that posits macro-evolutionary origin of the eye is an unreasonable hypothesis.
And it’s got to be Texas brisket, bar-b-qued slow, closed pit, hickory or mesquite smoked, sauce, if any, on the side. None of that vinegary Carolina concoction!
Last edited by RockOnBrother on Thu May 02, 2013 3:43 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Tosh Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:18 pm
“Show me the money”, show me the evidence that micro-evolution of canis lupus provides evidence for and supports macro-evolution of the eye.
I don't need a dog, what about a man with 3 eyes ?
EH ??.........................EH ??.................................EH ?
How about that as proof of macro eye evolution you loonball ?
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Guest Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:20 pm
RockOnBrother wrote:
Nope. Insufficient observational evidence has made my mind up; thus, if and when I am “shown the money”, my mind very well may be unmade up. Money talks.
Shirina wrote:
That must mean…
“That must mean” exactly what I’ve said, “Insufficient observational evidence has made my mind up; thus, if and when I am ‘shown the money’, my mind very well may be unmade up. Money talks.”
Last edited by RockOnBrother on Thu May 02, 2013 3:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Shirina Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:24 pm
I don’t have it; I have a conclusion that any hypothesis that posits macro-evolutionary origin of the eye is an unreasonable hypothesis.
Ah, but you do. The fact that you said ANY hypothesis involving macro-evolution is unreasonable ... which means that it is unreasonable regardless of what evidence is offered.
Because we all know that the creationists believe God is the default answer and its up to everyone else to disprove that assertion. Therefore, creationists have set up the rules to these debates - something that I WISH evolutionists would understand - and those rules state that God is proven true by proving evolution is untrue. If the eye did not evolve through macro-evolution, how then did it come into existence? Without a third alternative, it's either evolution or God.
And it’s got to be Texas brisket, bar-b-qued slow, closed pit, hickory or mesquite smoked, sauce, if any, on the side.
Unfortunately, I think my landlord would throw a fit if I dug a BBQ pit in the courtyard so you might have to deal with kitchen-prepared brisket, I'm afraid.
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Re: Does any religion matter at all today?
by Guest Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:24 pm
.
Last edited by RockOnBrother on Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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