Does any religion matter at all today?

by Stox 16 Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:35 am

First topic message reminder :

I will be interested to read peoples thoughts on this question. Does any Religion matter at all today?

I cannot see that any religious church's or anything religious even matters today at all. The only true religion I have ever come across is, Money, Political Power, Land, and greed. all the things we are told they are against, this goes for all religions too in my view.

in fact all the faiths I have come across use all of the tools of money, political power, Land and greed to re-force there religious views on there followers. i have never come across any religion that does not use at least one of this tools to enforce there religious views on the people they are said to be looking after.

I have read over the years all the religious books i can find, and have yet too be moved by any of them. some have very good stories that have something in them for every reader. but their it ends for me. maybe someone can explain why any of this is so important today? as i cannot find anything within the books that states this is very important today or in the past. I myself have come to believe that religion has more to do with the thought of death or dying and the human need to believe that life goes on after death.

However, when we was all born we did not feel pain or come into being with some religious thought in our heads or a book in our hands did we? in fact we had know idea about religion at all? so only find out what religion we are when someone tells us that this is our religion? yet you would think we would all know this already if there was a god? So we only find out what our religion is after birth? or do you believe you know what you religion was before birth? (i did not) if someone told me i was a follower of Islam, I would of said OK at five years old. in fact they could of given me any religion and i would of said fine.

So religion seems to me, religion only matters a get deal more the older you get? so I am told, well if so its failing on me badly. so anyway, it matter more as you get closer to death then? so is this more to do with our human need for life to go on somehow? as we find it hard to believe that life comes to an end and we go into darkness of no mans land? just like before we was born?

I was told at about 6 years old by my mother that this was my faith. but in total truth my mother could of said any faith was my religion and i would of gone along with what she said. To me that was it, Its that simple then. i did not then think about anything religious till i was in the Army in standing in a street in the middle of green line in a war zone in the Lebanon. with both Christains killing, Muslims Killing, Catholic Maronite's Killing, Druze faith Killing, Jewish killing. at first wondering why they was all doing this? not for religion or faith but power and using religion to justify there actions. I remember thinking. just suppose these people had been given a different religion by there mothers. they would instead of killing as a Maronite gunman they would of been killing Maronite's as a Druze gunman?

So your religion is picked for you in my view and some even change it too. yet you would think if you know your god at your death. you should know who you god is before birth? but we do not. So does any of this really matter any more?

well i well be interrested to read your thought on this. its not about any one religion but all of them.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 4:46 am

snowyflake wrote:
Atheists don't claim to 'know'. Believers do. Atheists don't claim to hold absolute truth or universal truth nor do atheists pretend that their personal spiritual experiences are truth to anyone else. Believers do. Atheists don't believe in God. Believers do. Atheists don't believe in eternal life. Believers do. Atheists conclude that God probably doesn't exist based on the evidence. We do not categorically state that God does not exist. We just live our lives using reason to navigate in our world. We don't require magic to explain the natural world when there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. Believers need magic, a father figure and religious structure. If you are the kind of person that really needs that, then perhaps belief is better for you and keeps you off the streets.

By definition, atheists are believers; accordingly, your statements can be read:

“Atheists don’t claim to ‘know.’ [Atheists] do.”

“Atheists don’t claim to hold absolute truth or universal truth nor do atheists pretend that their personal spiritual experiences are truth to anyone else. [Atheists] do.”

“Atheists don’t believe in God. [Atheists] do.”

“Atheists don’t believe in eternal life. [Atheists] do.”

“[Atheists] need magic, a father figure and religious structure.”

by tlttf Sat May 18, 2013 7:28 am

As an atheist roc, I can assure you I don't believe in any magical uber power. Don't you find repeating the same mantra boring?

by Shirina Sat May 18, 2013 8:05 am

Holy crap!

Did Rock just post two consecutive "I know you are, but what am I?" arguments?

I think he did!

Given the spirit of this discussion, I do believe the proper rebuttal to Rock's post would be ...

Nuh uh!

by snowyflake Sat May 18, 2013 9:04 am

As an atheist roc, I can assure you I don't believe in any magical uber power. Don't you find repeating the same mantra boring?

It is boring and non-productive. But it serves to show that he is staunchly defending his faith because in his head we are all Satan trying to convert him to non-belief. He is arming himself. and practicing at the rifle range and we are his clay pigeons.

Please, if it helps you get through your life, then believe. As an atheist, I only ask that you don't make claims that what you believe is true or real. It is only true or real to you and you alone and as you demand cautious language from science, we only ask that you use cautious language when it pertains to your belief. Unless you have convincing proof that God exists, you cannot make that claim absolutely outside of your own personal experience.

by polyglide Sat May 18, 2013 10:33 am

Everyone bases their opinions on their experiences and the facts available.

Just because some do not accept the facts does not change matters, if you do not experience something then you cannot comment on it.

by snowyflake Sat May 18, 2013 11:31 am

Everyone bases their opinions on their experiences and the facts available.

Of course they do. But not everyone claims to have universal truth based on their own personal experiences. The problem here is that believers in the supernatural claim that what they believe is true and real. It isn't. It is only true to you and if believers just said that, no one would mind one bit. But you and Rock claim that what you believe is absolute truth and yet you provide no evidence. Calling it fact is erroneous. It is only a belief based on a personal experience. End of story.

So all we ask is that you admit that what you believe is based on your own personal experiences and may not apply universally or absolutely. It is not that difficult.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 2:18 pm

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p810-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40768

Did Rock just post two consecutive "I know you are, but what am I?"¹ arguments?

No.

RockOnBrother wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p780-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40756
snowyflake wrote:
We see the adamant declaration of 'truth' as if personal experience extends to universal and absolute truth that is so arrogant in believers. They don't know, no matter what they tell you. They only 'believe'. And if believers just admitted that they believe for one reason only, eternal life, and it is just a belief and not 'truth', the discussion could proceed quite nicely and probably in a friendlier vein.

So why don't believers just admit that what they believe is not based on evidence or fact. I don't care if they believe but I do care when they lie to me and tell me it's truth.
By definition, atheists are believers; accordingly:

“We see the adamant declaration of 'truth' as if personal experience extends to universal and absolute truth that is so arrogant in [atheists]”;

“[Atheists] don't know, no matter what they tell you”;

“[Atheists] only 'believe'.”;

“… if [atheists] just admitted that they believe for one reason only, eternal life, and it is just a belief and not 'truth', the discussion could proceed quite nicely and probably in a friendlier vein.”

Thus, your question can be read as “… why don't [atheists] just admit that what they believe is not based on evidence or fact”, and your second paragraph’s concluding statement can be read as “I don't care if [atheists] believe but I do care when [atheists] lie to me and tell me it's truth.”

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p810-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40768

… "I know you are, but what am I?"¹…

1. Text not found in my message.

RockOnBrother wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p780-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40765
snowyflake wrote:
Atheists don't claim to 'know'. Believers do. Atheists don't claim to hold absolute truth or universal truth nor do atheists pretend that their personal spiritual experiences are truth to anyone else. Believers do. Atheists don't believe in God. Believers do. Atheists don't believe in eternal life. Believers do. Atheists conclude that God probably doesn't exist based on the evidence. We do not categorically state that God does not exist. We just live our lives using reason to navigate in our world. We don't require magic to explain the natural world when there is plenty of evidence to suggest otherwise. Believers need magic, a father figure and religious structure. If you are the kind of person that really needs that, then perhaps belief is better for you and keeps you off the streets.
By definition, atheists are believers; accordingly, your statements can be read:

“Atheists don’t claim to ‘know.’ [Atheists] do.”

“Atheists don’t claim to hold absolute truth or universal truth nor do atheists pretend that their personal spiritual experiences are truth to anyone else. [Atheists] do.”

“Atheists don’t believe in God. [Atheists] do.”

“Atheists don’t believe in eternal life. [Atheists] do.”

“[Atheists] need magic, a father figure and religious structure.”

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p810-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40768

… "I know you are, but what am I?"¹…

1. Text not found in my message.

by Tosh Sat May 18, 2013 2:37 pm

He is ready to blow, all pretense gone.

Texas hammering away trying to turn a disbelief into a belief, it is hilarious.

by snowyflake Sat May 18, 2013 2:46 pm

Texas hammering away trying to turn a disbelief into a belief, it is hilarious.

I think it's really sad. Sad

by Shirina Sat May 18, 2013 4:11 pm

Yeah, isn't it funny how it works?

Atheism is a belief, evolution is a beleif, the Big Bang is a belief, but Christianity is the absolute, unvarnished truth.

I've already proven logically how that is false and no one has even tried to take a stab at showing where I'm wrong.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 4:28 pm

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p810-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40800
Atheism is a belief…

Truth.

by Shirina Sat May 18, 2013 4:34 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p810-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40800
Atheism is a belief…

Truth.

Oh, now that's twisting my words, Rock.

You should be ashamed. Please do not quote me out of context again.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 4:57 pm

Shirina wrote:
RockOnBrother wrote:
Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p810-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40800
Atheism is a belief…
Truth.
Oh, now that's twisting my words, Rock.

You should be ashamed. Please do not quote me out of context again.

Here’s what you’ve said:

Shirina wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p810-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40800

Atheism is a belief, evolution is a beleif, the Big Bang is a belief…

I’ve neither twisted your words nor taken your words out of context. Each thing that you’ve said is truth. However, in my opinion, you’re a bit overcautious with Big Bang; my decades-long study of the origin of everything, first as an undergraduate physics/mathematics major and, after switching to social sciences, as an armchair aficionado, has led me to the conclusion that Big Bang comes as close to proven truth as anything there is,

by snowyflake Sat May 18, 2013 5:04 pm

The delusion of a particular type of believer is really quite sad. He interacts with his Elohim and his Yeshua but he cannot and will not interact humanly with real, actual people in any kind of normal human way. He doesn't discuss. He lectures and preaches as if he has cornered the market on truth. As if, he is God's chosen spokesperson on earth. As if his own personal truth is absolute truth.

Atheism, no matter how you twist it or define it, is not a belief. It's the absence of belief in deities. An atheist may believe many other things but God isn't one of them.

You play games with words but you miss the actual heart of the discussion. You never answer a direct question, instead thinking by asking a question in return you are being somehow clever.

I believe you don't think of us as real people with real feelings and real thoughts. We are just Satan in disguise to you.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 5:34 pm

snowyflake wrote:https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t276p810-does-any-religion-matter-at-all-today#40809

Atheism, no matter how you twist it or define it, is not a belief.

Truth: By definition, atheism is a belief, atheists believe, and atheists are believers.

snowyflake wrote:
I believe you don't think of us as real people with real feelings and real thoughts.

You believe incorrectly.

snowyflake wrote:
We are just Satan in disguise to you.

You are, to me and to our Creator, ha adama, created by our Creator in his image; thus, you are precious to me. Additionally, you are exemplary in actualizing Y’shua’s teachings in reaching out to these the least of Y’shua’s sisters and brothers. It is because of who you are that I love you.

by snowyflake Sat May 18, 2013 7:55 pm

You are, to me and to our Creator, ha adama, created by our Creator in his image; thus, you are precious to me. Additionally, you are exemplary in actualizing Y’shua’s teachings in reaching out to these the least of Y’shua’s sisters and brothers. It is because of who you are that I love you.

And you think this method that you use of spamming and continuous repetitive preaching is reaching anyone? It isn't. And that delusion is what makes me sad. You think that what you say on this board in the way that you say it will bring people to Christ. You are so, so wrong.

You don't love me. You love Yeshua and you think you are following his teachings by preaching on this forum in the way that you do. If you loved me, me as a person, with feelings and thoughts and convictions of my own, you would hear me and the others who post on this board. But you don't. You are a defender of your faith and there is no love in your words.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 8:04 pm

snowyflake wrote:
You don't love me.

In fact I do love you.

by snowyflake Sat May 18, 2013 8:53 pm

In fact I do love you.

You mean love in the way that any human being loves other human beings and wishes them well or do you mean me personally?

And if you love me, then talk to me. Don't preach at me. Don't spam, don't repeat and don't play games with words. Look at the heart of the discussion and the meaning behind it. Not the semantics or definitions or grammar or spelling but the real meat and bones of what is being said to you. And please hear me and try to understand.

We don't agree and we are unlikely to agree in the future but stop telling me that you 'know' when you really only 'believe'. I can accept your belief is real to you but it is not real to me and you shouldn't try to tell me it is.

by Guest Sat May 18, 2013 11:12 pm

snowyflake wrote:
In fact I do love you.
You mean love in the way that any human being loves other human beings and wishes them well or do you mean me personally?

That’s the beginning point. I don’t know you as well as I would like to know you; that being said, I’ve grown to love you for you, for who you are. And despite your protestations to the contrary, you’ve impacted me deeply, to my core. For instance, how would I know about in-country grass roots women’s organizations pushing right now for women’s human rights in such oppressive regimes as Somalia and Pakistan except for your diligent support and commitment to get the word out? I’ll answer that: I wouldn’t. Additionally, your love for and commitment to your family sets an example to which I try to rise daily. You are an extraordinary woman, and I love you.

by mmhmm Sun May 19, 2013 6:38 am

Why does any of this matter a hill of beans? The arguments go on for page, after page, after page. Repetitions are legion. Yet, nobody changes their mind on the subject being argued. Those who believe in God will continue to believe in God. Those who do not will continue not to believe. Those who aren't really sure, one way or the other, will continue to be unsure.

It's not as though anyone here is so green and callow as to have come to their stance on this issue without due diligence. We've all heard the various arguments innumerable times. Have any of you seen any seasoned adult suddenly come to an epiphany on this issue? I haven't.

by snowyflake Sun May 19, 2013 9:54 am

We've all had an epiphany on this issue hence our different stances. And I was a seasoned adult when I concluded that God probably does not exist and I live my life accordingly. My morals didn't change one iota between my Christianity and my atheism except I found the freedom to love and make no judgement of all people regardless of their sexual orientation or religion or race. God was not present before and his absence after didn't make a bit of difference. So what did I need belief for in my life? None of the scientific evidence tallied with the existence of God or any god. But now this life is all there is and I must live it as best I can with love for all my fellow humans. No reward or punishment at the end of my life. I'll die hopefully having loved and lived fully. That sits well with me. Smile

by snowyflake Sun May 19, 2013 10:01 am

Those are very kind words, Rock. And for my part, I enjoy it much more when you talk like this rather than all the guff you put on the forum that just looks like a wall of words keeping others from knowing you and worse keeps others from knowing why you believe as you do.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 1:31 pm

These are words from my heart, Snowy. Maybe you now get a little of it.

Communicating to you why I believe and know that which I believe and know is the sole reason for what you call “gruff.” Except for you, I wouldn’t care.

There are only five people besides me that have regularly posted on these threads (about four) in recent months.

One person started denigrating your character, intelligence, and educational training, skills, and credentials several months ago. I could give less than a flip about this person. It is only because you asked me to back off that I haven’t said more.

Trevor is a wealth of knowledge, scholar whose insights rival those of a friend that holds two Ph.D.’s in this field. When he posts, his content is often ignored, and I mourn for that reason.

Another person warned me straight up six or seven months ago that this parson’s input from here on out would no longer be the scholarly input to which I had become accustomed. That has happened as I was warned it would happen, and I mourn for that.

Another person whose intellectual prowess is sky-high seems unwilling to listen to me or anyone else with whom this person disagrees. I mourn for that.

And then there is you. I so much want you to understand what and why I believe and know beyond my ability to put in words. That hasn’t happened; in fact, that seems to be un-happening. Not only do I mourn for that, I hurt like hell because of that.

I hope you hear these words: Since communicating what and why to you hasn’t happened, I’ve now given up trying.

by snowyflake Sun May 19, 2013 2:40 pm

Thank you Rock for your honesty. I want to hear you but I don't want to be preached at or lectured to. This is what I like. An open, honest discussion. How can anyone gain an understanding of another person if you are not talking with them?

Communicating to you why I believe and know that which I believe and know is the sole reason for what you call “gruff.”

You lose people from the sheer volume of words and references. You might actually say something useful and important but it gets lost in the post because no one is reading it. They don't read the entire post and just think it's more of the same. If you want people to hear you, you have to talk with them not at them.

I hope you hear these words: Since communicating what and why to you hasn’t happened, I’ve now given up trying.

I'm sorry for that. But maybe now we can have a discussion that is based on mutual respect. If you have learned something that rings true to you and you share it here, and others don't agree, a healthy discussion can arise. At the moment, we've reduced the discussion is an argument and frankly, I'm tired of that. Shirina, Tosh, Trevor and yourself are, in my opinion, brilliant and I have learned a lot from all of you. You all say things that inspire me to investigate things I've never even heard of. And WOW there is so much I don't know.

I appreciate you and your input here but we would go further I think, without all the repetition. At your heart, I believe you are a good man with something worthwhile to say. And this forum would be less without you.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 7:45 pm

I am painfully aware of the “sound bite” mentality which now permeates our English-speaking society in the US, Canada, the UK, and even Down Under. Perhaps Rupert Murdoch rules the world at large as he rules the world’s English-speaking newspapers and television stations.

I write as I think and speak. When writing about what I believe and know, I attempt to encapsulate within a few paragraphs things earned over the decades that I have struggled to comprehend, analyzed, contemplated deeply, wrestled with, etc. for decades. It takes more than a few quips to communicate to even scantly communicate this to another person.

One epiphany of which I am now thinking took at least five years to “break” such that I “got it.” During that five or more years, a friend and I regularly discussed, discoursed upon, and disagreed with each other about just this one thing. How could I ever get this thing across to you or anyone else in a Rupert Murdoch sound bite?

Argumentative debates have never led to truth. I’ve judged debates. Nothing on the judges’ scoring rubric says “degree of truthfulness.” No points are allowed for expositing truth. It’s a game, one which I play well when motivated. I once debated myself into a round-trip coast-to-coast airline ticket and expense allowance. No truth was revealed in that exercise; I just got what I wanted.

As I said, I’ve given up trying, at least on Cutting Edge’s religious threads. I posted several quotes from astrophysicists and astronomers to “test the waters”, to see if anyone would actually listen to some of the greatest minds in recent history regarding what their studies have led them to conclude about the origin of everything. No one listened. I folks won’t listen to Nobel laureates in the field and the man who proved Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity correct in the face of concerted pro-Newtonian physics opposition, then folks won’t listen to RockOnBrother, just a one-time fairly decent undergrad physics student and now a fairly decent armchair aficionado. So I’m done here for now, at least on these Cutting Edge religion threads. I’m not particularly religious, anyway, and defending religion is not my “shtick”, so I’ll leave it to those who relish such stuff.

Very quickly, I witnessed a religious debate between members of two religious groups that both (1) professed to be Christians, and (2) professed that the other guy was not a Christian. Biggest waste of time in my life. The folks in my group were congratulating each other on defeating the other guy like it was an NBA Championship Series game or something. Proof-texting all over the place on both sides. I hated it then, and I hate it now.

Perhaps at another “place” you and I can resume communicating. I wish that very much.

by snowyflake Sun May 19, 2013 8:43 pm

I don't think anyone was asking for sound bites, Rock. I think we just wanted an honest discussion without all the other stuff. You were quoting scientists with quotes from a Christian website. If you had chosen a neutral website or a book, one without a religious agenda, I think people would have listened but you chose to pick quotes from a Christian website. I know I'm not the only one to give those sites a wide berth due to their unmitigated bias.

For someone who is not 'particularly religious' you fight awfully hard for your corner.

Anyway, perhaps the discussion will continue without us then. I wish you happiness, health and peace. Take care of yourself.

by trevorw2539 Sun May 19, 2013 9:13 pm

'Argumentative debates have never led to truth.'

A truer word was never said.

by Shirina Sun May 19, 2013 9:30 pm

I'm not a soundbite person and the majority of my posts bear that out. It is also the reason why I never bothered getting a Twitter account and why my Facebook account has sat dormant for a very long time. I feel little more than contempt for a soundbite society - a society in which the art of writing has been lost so that now people feel the need to literally abbreviate three-letter words. I came to the West knowing only a handful of English phrases and proceeded to bust my ass learning not just English out of a textbook, but understanding the nuances of the language - the ability to read between the lines, understanding slang, colloquialisms, metaphors, similes, and to amass a solid vocabulary.

And for what, I wonder?

I find myself sitting here with a mountain of things I'd like to say, but I'm not going to bother. Given that my life is about to implode anyway, nothing really matters at this point, anyhow, and my words just feel like a big waste of time. I don't have much motivation. Six months ago I was participating on six different forums. Now I only log in here, and even posting here seems like an exercise in futility for a variety of reasons.

I used to receive a lot of my socialization on message boards, and all too often, I let my so-called faith in my fellow Man take me for a ride. Yet invariably all I have received for my trust is a back full of daggers. Then people wonder why I don't let them "in." What happened on the Crap forum was the final lesson, one that I will never need to be taught again.

So perhaps, given the situation developing here, it is simply time to hang up my spurs for good.

I can still be admin here without posting.

Yeah, screw it, I'm done.

by trevorw2539 Sun May 19, 2013 9:47 pm

Shirina wrote:I'm not a soundbite person and the majority of my posts bear that out. It is also the reason why I never bothered getting a Twitter account and why my Facebook account has sat dormant for a very long time. I feel little more than contempt for a soundbite society - a society in which the art of writing has been lost so that now people feel the need to literally abbreviate three-letter words. I came to the West knowing only a handful of English phrases and proceeded to bust my ass learning not just English out of a textbook, but understanding the nuances of the language - the ability to read between the lines, understanding slang, colloquialisms, metaphors, similes, and to amass a solid vocabulary.

And for what, I wonder?

I find myself sitting here with a mountain of things I'd like to say, but I'm not going to bother. Given that my life is about to implode anyway, nothing really matters at this point, anyhow, and my words just feel like a big waste of time. I don't have much motivation. Six months ago I was participating on six different forums. Now I only log in here, and even posting here seems like an exercise in futility for a variety of reasons.

I used to receive a lot of my socialization on message boards, and all too often, I let my so-called faith in my fellow Man take me for a ride. Yet invariably all I have received for my trust is a back full of daggers. Then people wonder why I don't let them "in." What happened on the Crap forum was the final lesson, one that I will never need to be taught again.

So perhaps, given the situation developing here, it is simply time to hang up my spurs for good.

I can still be admin here without posting.

Yeah, screw it, I'm done.

That's a shame. I don't often post on here but I do read this 'religious' thread. I've always found your posts interesting and informative.
I respect ROC's knowledge but didn't always agree with him.
Anyway. Goodluck.

by Guest Sun May 19, 2013 10:22 pm

I quoted astrophysicists and astronomers that study the origin of everything from whatever websites their quotes are found on the Internet. I was aware of the content of many of these quotes as early as 1966, long before any websites existed. The quotes are accurate; in other words, the astrophysicists and astronomers said what they are quoted as saying.

by oftenwrong Sun May 19, 2013 10:25 pm

mmhmm wrote:Why does any of this matter a hill of beans? The arguments go on for page, after page, after page. Repetitions are legion. Yet, nobody changes their mind on the subject being argued. Those who believe in God will continue to believe in God. Those who do not will continue not to believe. Those who aren't really sure, one way or the other, will continue to be unsure.

It's not as though anyone here is so green and callow as to have come to their stance on this issue without due diligence. We've all heard the various arguments innumerable times. Have any of you seen any seasoned adult suddenly come to an epiphany on this issue? I haven't.

Forgive an easy assumption, but isn't the entire purpose of religious discussion to argue about things which cannot be resolved?

by mmhmm Sun May 19, 2013 11:42 pm

Yes, oftenwrong, it is, IMO. That's why I often find myself wondering at its persistence. It's the never-ending merry-go-round of arguments; yet, people continue to pursue the unattainable. Wink

by Shirina Mon May 20, 2013 12:04 am

It's the never-ending merry-go-round of arguments; yet, people continue to pursue the unattainable.

You assume the motive for religious debates is to change minds. Perhaps that is true for some, but I do not count myself among them. I enjoy debating controversial subjects for three reasons.

1) It exercises my brain
2) It keeps my mind off things I'd rather not think about
3) Standard small talk (kids, spouse, home improvement, career) is beyond me.

That's all there is to it.

by mmhmm Mon May 20, 2013 4:35 am

Nah. I wasn't assuming anything as it might pertain to individuals. I was speaking strictly collectively, Shirina. I'm not one for everyday chit-chat, either. That said, religious back-and-forth bickering doesn't speak to me, either.

I can easily understand trying to keep one's mind occupied and the boogie man out, though. Wink

by trevorw2539 Mon May 20, 2013 11:06 am

Shirina wrote:
It's the never-ending merry-go-round of arguments; yet, people continue to pursue the unattainable.

You assume the motive for religious debates is to change minds. Perhaps that is true for some, but I do not count myself among them. I enjoy debating controversial subjects for three reasons.

1) It exercises my brain
2) It keeps my mind off things I'd rather not think about
3) Standard small talk (kids, spouse, home improvement, career) is beyond me.

That's all there is to it.

In my experience religious debate seldom changes anyone's mind. Rather the opposite. An understanding of each others position is usually the best that can be achieved. Unfortunately it often descends into acrimony.

by polyglide Mon May 20, 2013 1:21 pm

You ask for me to admit that God is a figment of my imagination, when in fact it is based on far more sounder ground than your idea that life came about by pure chance.

Then you are more stupid than your posts indicate.

The fact that life cannot have come about by chance has been proven by sevral means accepted by those with the necessay qualifications to make the assumption.

I believe 100% that God created life.

Now you prove that he did not.

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 1:45 pm

trevorw2539 wrote:
In my experience religious debate seldom changes anyone's mind. Rather the opposite. An understanding of each others position is usually the best that can be achieved. Unfortunately it often descends into acrimony.

Even truer words. In my experience, understanding one another’s positions leads to the betterment of all parties, assuming that each participant is an ethical, moral person. Four Muslims with whom I participated in weekly study sessions for nearly a year, one quiet, peaceful Muslims with whom I participated in twice weekly deep discourse for nearly a year, two Baha’is with whom I from time to time informally discussed a faith that blew me away for four years, and two Jews, one Conservative Jew and one Reform Jew, with whom I have studied in person and over long-distance telephone for almost two decades, have bettered me by honoring me with their teachings.

by Guest Mon May 20, 2013 9:55 pm

Here’s a b*****d sunavab****h that uses children to kill in the name of his own religious admixture of “Christianity” and traditional religion.

https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t834-whos-there-for-the-children-being-used-as-cannon-fodder-in-joseph-konys-lords-resistance-army#40881

This evil piece of let over human DNA needs to be drug through the mud from one end of Africa to the other, shipped across the Med and drug through the mud from one end of Eurasia to the other, shipped down under and drug through them und from one end of Australia to the other, shipped across the South Pacific and drug through the mud and frozen tundra from Tierra del Fuego to Baffin Island, and then dropped on the Arctic ice for Polar Bear feed.

by Shirina Tue May 21, 2013 2:15 pm

I believe 100% that God created life.

Oh, you BELIEVE 100% that God created life.

Which means maybe he didn't.

Case closed.

by polyglide Tue May 21, 2013 2:42 pm

What utter nonsense, as usual.

The same stupid response could be made on any given subject.

I believe 100% that God created life, there is no ifs and buts so far as Iam concerned, the doubt lies with people like you.

I have asked you to prove God does not exist and on what grounds and as usual you do not understand a question, you make up your own, along with a nonsensicle answer.

by Shirina Tue May 21, 2013 3:13 pm

I have asked you to prove God does not exist and on what grounds

I've told you hundreds of times - it's because THERE IS NO EVIDENCE that God exists.

That's why religious belief is called FAITH.

Prove that God doesn't exist? That's not my job. The burden of proof is on YOU.

You have yet to provide any EVIDENCE that God exists. Yes, you BELIEVE 100% that God created life. That's peachy ... but your BELIEF does not equate to truth.

That's why it is called a BELIEF.

you make up your own, along with a nonsensicle answer.

See this plane?
Does any religion matter at all today? - Page 21 Airbus-corp-jetliner_2

My point is on board, and it's currently flying right over your head.

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