Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

by **Ivan** Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

In my opinion, the UK under our extreme right-wing government is rapidly degenerating into velvet glove fascism.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Michael Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. Gove has plans for military cadets in every school (Cameron Youth?) and a return to children sitting in rows reciting lists of kings and queens in history lessons, rather than learning to think. Hitler also realised how important history was to indoctrination when he ordered the mass burning of books. Tories close libraries.

Hitler made sure that he controlled the media. The Tories have cowed the BBC by threats of fragmentation and sharing the licence fee with others, such as Murdoch. The BBC, which was required to be impartial, has become just another mouthpiece for Tory propaganda. As soon as they came to power in 2010, the Tories instructed every minister to repeat over and over again the whopping lie that Labour, not Tory bankers, caused the global credit crisis. We have the repeated lie about everyone in the public sector getting “gold-plated pensions”, when the average is only £5,600 per annum. As Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Cameron has proved over and over again that he’s a pathological liar.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. Duncan Smith went on breakfast television on 27 May 2010 and made the chilling remark: "Work makes you free". That's an exact translation of the sign which used to hang over the entrances to concentration camps.

The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for companies such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's unpaid. Cancer patients are being made to undergo work assessments while being treated with chemotherapy, and wounded soldiers are being sacked. (Osborne is willing to take money from the disabled and cancer patients, but not prepared to veto Hester's bonus from the largely state-owned RBS.)

The police are being trained to shoot people with rubber bullets and will be issued with water cannon, yet the Tories were so keen on helping Arab rebels in North Africa. Two unknown Scottish teenagers made a joke on 'Facebook' about organising riots, and they both received four years in jail. A prominent Tory TV presenter (and personal friend of Cameron) made a tasteless joke about murdering trade unionists on prime time television; nothing was done about it and the BBC continue to pay him £1 million a year of our money.

We don't have any concentration camps in the UK, but the principles are the same - propaganda, indoctrination, and divide and rule by demonising a section of the population. While Hitler gassed Jews, the Tories clearly don't care if benefit claimants starve to death. Even payments from the Social Fund, for those in the most desperate need, will no longer be available from job centres but will be at the 'discretion' of local councils, who will not have to ring-fence the money. All the ingredients of fascism are there, but it's just being handed out to us in a more genteel form than Hitler used - in velvet gloves.

by **Phil Hornby** Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:40 pm

" to most of the lefties on this forum, all Torys are either thick, stupid, ignorant or scum."

What's 'either ' got to do with it...? Very Happy

by atv Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:47 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:" to most of the lefties on this forum, all Torys are either thick, stupid, ignorant or scum."

What's 'either ' got to do with it...?

There you go, my point exactly.

by betty.noire Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:52 pm

There were many in the Labour party who claimed Gordon Brown wouldn't listen to anyone, are you going to compare Brown with Hitler? I await with interest.

Oh surely not, more of a Seyss-Inquart

by **Phil Hornby** Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:53 pm

So glad to have allied myself with wisdom as penetrating as that from Tory sources... Shocked

by betty.noire Fri Mar 09, 2012 9:55 pm

someone needs a hug lol

by Stox 16 Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:55 pm

blueturando wrote:
I wouldn’t go as far as to say they are fascists

It's ok Betty......some on here use that term to justify their own predjudices and envy

envy of the Tories....get away with you Blue...There far too Sad a party to envy..

by Stox 16 Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:58 pm

Redflag wrote:
Stox 16 wrote:
Ivan wrote:I’d be interested to know what our Tory members make of this article from a traditional Tory newspaper:-

'Suicide training in Job Centres? Cancer patients scrubbing floors? Welcome to Cameron’s Brave New World' by Sonia Poulton.

"Cameron. will be remembered as the Prime Minister - without a mandate, remember - who attacked the sick and disabled of our country with a vehemence beyond human comprehension. And when you think that he had a disabled son who tragically passed two years ago, well, then, it beggars belief even more so.

Any disabled or sick person who has been given more than six months to live - and is unable to financially support themselves - will be sent out to work. If they refuse, or back out of a scheme, then they will be subject to benefit sanctions.

Next up in the reforms will be an increase in multiple testing of patients, including those with Alzheimer's and Multiple Sclerosis, to see if they are fit for work. They will be tested repeatedly. It will cost a great deal of money to administer and it will wear already sick people to a pulp.

And as for children who dare to be born disabled, well that assistance previously available to them has been wiped out in Cameron's Armageddon on the poor, yet he claimed Disability Living Allowance for his child - and absolutely did not need to.

There is also, according to recent figures, a 40% increase in disabled attacks in the past year alone. Hardly wonder when the general public are constantly being goaded with the idea that we are 'mugs for supporting scroungers' Perhaps the aim is to finish off the sick and disabled sooner rather than later. Well that way, at least, you get to save on the medical bills of our increasingly privatised National Health Service."

For the full article:-
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2110900/Suicide-training-Job-Centres-Cancer-patients-scrubbing-floors-Welcome-Cameron-s-Brave-New-World.html#ixzz1oWjIfsOQ

Sounds to me that even the good old DM finds this all very vulger to me....which it is....but always thought spiteful and malevolent act that are utterly vulger summed up the Tory party to a T

You are too nice to the Tories Stox Uncaring and Utterly nasty is more befitting for them.

your right Red...had a soft moment...forgiven I hope?

by Mel Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:43 am

atv wrote " am on two other forums, and I have tried without success to get people to join, and claiming we are ashamed when all the coalition is trying to do is put right what Labour messed up"

You are one of the few atv who come to defend (as I said) the indefencible. However you fail to argue in favour apart from the same old worn out Tory splurge
"trying to put right what Labour messed up.

The reasons given in my post regarding the few Tory supporters here is born out again by yourself in your attempt to engage a few on another forum. No Tory is capable of properly defending these measures and they are ashamed, as I have said. Obviously you are one of the few who are not, how and why is way beyond me and I suspect many decent caring people.

Come on atv, you know deep down that there is no way of defending these
mercinary Tory actions.
Labour lost the election because of being blamed wrongly for the effects of the Global Crisis. It is blatently obvious that the Tories have used the excuse to persue Tory ideology at it's worse, whilst pretending that the measures are needed to get the country back on track.
So far we have seen no improvement, no growth, more unemployment, higher inflation and borrowing. Not at all surprising is it atv, when the wrong medicine is administered to the wrong recipient? Especially and in such a callous, uncaring dogmatic blatent fashion.

by bobby Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:34 am

Hello Mel Mate.

I’m sure the time will come, even with this Tory led Coalition Government, when some enterprising persons, will invest in their businesses, at the moment any plans for expansion by most (unless your Nissan and get a massive 9.3 million subsidy from the British Taxpayer) have been put on the back burner, due mainly to the incompetence of this Government, and total lack of faith in the UK economy. But they will only wait so long before taking the gamble or squashing their growth plans altogether. Those that will invest will of course be claimed as Tory victories, and nothing said about those who don’t. Human nature will decide, not Herr Cameron

by trevorw2539 Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:46 am

,Quote Mel.

...........................................................how and why is way beyond me and I suspect many decent caring people.

Come on atv, you know deep down that there is no way of defending these
mercinary Tory actions.
Labour lost the election because of being blamed wrongly for the effects of the Global Crisis. It is blatently obvious that the Tories have used the excuse to persue Tory ideology at it's worse, whilst pretending that the measures are needed to get the country back on track.
So far we have seen no improvement, no growth, more unemployment, higher inflation and borrowing. Not at all surprising is it atv, when the wrong medicine is administered to the wrong recipient? Especially and in such a callous, uncaring dogmatic blatent fashion.

That's what I like about you Mel. The softly, softly approach:lol:

Excuse the musing for a moment. While I read your post, for some reason my father popped into my head. He was a fairly mild tempered man but there were two words that would really get him going. 'Margaret Thatcher'. He would never use the name. It was always 'that woman'.

Do you think he had a point? Wink

by bobby Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:17 pm

Trev, Your Father was obveously a Gentleman, you should have heard what my old Dad Called her.

by Mel Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:18 pm

Only one word for her trevor "WITCH"!!!!!!

by Mel Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:32 pm

Hello bobby

"Those that invest"

Did you see on "This week" Thursday night?
They had the multi millionair Stringfellow, Tory fanatic on the show.

He was going on about the top rate of tax. He wants it lowered as he says he will plough the difference into his business to expand further to create employment.
The way I see that is ok for the likes of him and a few others who are so rich that they can do what he suggests. My gripe is about the thousands upon thousands earning £150k pa and above who will simply use the reduction for their own personal use. For example buying a yacht or another property overseas and worse buying some poor sods property that has been repossessed here in the UK and sold for a pitence at auction. Then of course letting it out at some extortional rental.

Watch Osborne reduce the top rate in the budget, i'ts a cert.

by bobby Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:55 pm

Hi Mel. Who in their right mind is going to invest in the UK, with the present economic climate.

But then if the Pratt Stringfellow says he will, it must all be OK out there. Isn't it?

Anyway thats just what we need to bolster Britains future, More bleeding pole or lap dancers.

by trevorw2539 Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:14 pm

Mel wrote:Only one word for her trevor "WITCH"!!!!!!

Now which witch. I assume you mean the Wicked Witch of the East (Midlands) as opposed to the Good Witch of the North. Smile

(Wizard of Oz).

by astra Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:25 pm

Good Witch of the North

The wife is available with tea and scones!

Now where are the Brownie Points? Razz

by trevorw2539 Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:40 pm

astra wrote:
Good Witch of the North

The wife is available with tea and scones!

Now where are the Brownie Points?

No brownie points, but she can have the cooking badge. Fresh cream with the scones and I'll be round in 5. bounce

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:42 pm

"multi millionair Stringfellow, Tory fanatic "

Some rich people can remember having been poor, and they will fight tooth and nail to avoid reverting to that condition.

(What would you do?)

by Mel Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:07 pm

OW Quote--"(What would you do?)"

Certainly NOT vote Tory.

Thousands of people have always been poor and have no chance of becoming rich. However they do expect to be treated fairly in the 21st Century. Unfortunately their mild expectations of fairness from this Tory dominated Coalition have been deminished.

by Mel Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:11 pm

bobby Quote--"
Anyway thats just what we need to bolster Britains future, More bleeding pole or lap dancers."

Now that's good for growth of some sort, init? Very Happy

by **Phil Hornby** Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:25 pm

My family's background is a very modest one, although its members had a tradition over many decades of voting Tory -or pretending to be Liberal, and still voting Conservative.

I am financially better-off by far than any of my forebears, but I am as likely to vote Tory as I am to deliberately drive a six-inch nail into my own foot whilst shouting : " Bring back Margaret Thatcher!".

Sadly, I have no real enthusiasm for any party when it comes down to it - they need to invent a new one. Any ideas...?

by Penderyn Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:29 pm

The tories are not fascists, because fascists are only called in when capitalism is in near-terminal crisis. They are just paid servants of the City, like the media and the forelock-tuggers, half-witted, short-sighted fools. Time we all woke up.

by Mel Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:40 pm

"Sadly, I have no real enthusiasm for any party when it comes down to it - they need to invent a new one. Any ideas...?"

Old TLTTF could perhaps advise you Phil. Where the hell is he? he is conspicuous by his absense. Smile

by Redflag Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:40 pm

Stox 16 wrote:
blueturando wrote:
I wouldn’t go as far as to say they are fascists

It's ok Betty......some on here use that term to justify their own predjudices and envy

envy of the Tories....get away with you Blue...There far too Sad a party to envy..

They have S.F.A to envy but plenty to pity Stox ?

by Redflag Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:45 pm

bobby wrote:Trev, Your Father was obveously a Gentleman, you should have heard what my old Dad Called her.

You have never heard what I thought of her and too save face and this forum, just think of the worst words you never thought you knew and then triple them and thats what I thought of "THE WICKED WITCH OF THE SOUTH" .

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:59 pm

" "THE WICKED WITCH OF THE SOUTH" ."

No doubt, but to some of us, Grantham is Outer Newcastle.

Only the Historians will be able to evaluate the effect of Thatcher's policies on the British economy subsequently. Just now it looks as though she cut the Nation off at its knees, but perhaps we're still too close to it to make a judgment.

The certainty is that the Cameron-Clegg-Osborne triumvirate have no intention of casting Thatcherism into the Outer Darkness. They think it's rather jolly.

by betty.noire Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:04 pm

Fly my pretties, fly Laughing

by oftenwrong Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:24 pm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2007/sep/29/uk.gloucestershire

by astra Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:35 pm

The North South divide used to be considerd as a line that you crossed at Watford Gap.

Tony Blair had a survey done, and the University - loughborough I think said the line (toward the end of his 'reign') was adjudged to be from Gloucester to Goole in Lincolnshire.

Obviously he buried the report.

I wonder where the line would be drawn today?

by trevorw2539 Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:28 pm

Are the Tories velvet glove fascists? - Page 8 Empty

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?
by astra Today at 8:35 pm

The North South divide used to be considerd as a line that you crossed at Watford Gap.

Tony Blair had a survey done, and the University - loughborough I think said the line (toward the end of his 'reign') was adjudged to be from Gloucester to Goole in Lincolnshire.

Obviously he buried the report.

I wonder where the line would be drawn today?

Right through the middle of my flat, with me living on the wrong side of the line:(

I think we will have to wait and see, until the poor in London who can't afford the rent under the cuts have to move out and find somewhere cheaper. My theory is that this has all been planned by the Removal Industry. Shocked

Perhaps a contribution to Tory funds. Smile

Or am I just being cynical. Embarassed

by astra Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:21 pm

MR Pickford has dropped them a bung!

by Stox 16 Sun Mar 11, 2012 4:14 am

Redflag wrote:
Stox 16 wrote:
blueturando wrote:
I wouldn’t go as far as to say they are fascists

It's ok Betty......some on here use that term to justify their own predjudices and envy

envy of the Tories....get away with you Blue...There far too Sad a party to envy..

They have S.F.A to envy but plenty to pity Stox ?

God dead right Red....I pity any die hard Tory...there economy is an utter mess...The LD have them on a lead and take them for walk each day...and they have more meeting at number 10 than any party in History with the net result of nothing at the end of them..

by betty.noire Sun Mar 11, 2012 8:34 pm

I really do think that comparing them to facists trivialises the debate, and actually is insulting to people who lived through the madness of facism in the 1930/40 's

by oftenwrong Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:40 pm

Absolutely. The Fascists of the 1930s in Britain, Spain, Italy and of course Germany were a particularly vicious breed, far nastier than any of the right-wing extremists strutting the contemporary fringes.

For now.

The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance.

by **Ivan** Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:42 pm

betty.noire wrote:-
I really do think that comparing them to fascists trivialises the debate, and actually is insulting to people who lived through the madness of fascism in the 1930/40 's

As the instigator of this thread, you wouldn’t expect me to agree! As oftenwrong has reminded us “the price of liberty is eternal vigilance”, and the greatest disservice we could pay to the people who perished under the jack boot would be to let it rise again.

For a start, I’ve called it “velvet glove fascism”, because we don’t have any concentration camps or one group of people being forced to wear badges, yet. However, there are, in my opinion, some chilling similarities. When this government came to power, all its ministers were sent out like automotons to repeat over and over again the lie that Labour had caused the global credit crunch. That’s pure Goebbels - say it often enough and people will believe it.

This government has demonised one section of the population, namely benefit claimants. It’s forcing terminally ill cancer patients to take fitness-to-work tests and withdrawing disability living allowance from incapacitated children (even though Cameron himself claimed it for his sick child). The Nazis moved Jews out of their shops and houses, while this government’s housing benefit policy is moving thousands of people out of their homes, especially in London.

The contempt for democracy shown by this government matches Hitler’s antics. Cameron fixed the length of parliaments at five years – without a mandate. He’s forcing through the privatisation by stealth of the NHS, showing complete contempt for what he promised the electorate in 2010. Lansley has twice been ordered, once by a judge, to release the NHS Risk Register, but is still refusing to do so. Cameron and his government act as if they’re above the law.

While the Nazis had Hitler Youth, Gove is planning military cadets in every school. Just as Hitler controlled the media, so does Cameron, largely with the help of Murdoch, but also by planting Chris Patten in the BBC and threatening the corporation with fragmentation. Nearly every day you can read examples on ‘Twitter’ of how news, especially relating to the NHS, has gone unreported. Cameron’s visit to the Royal Victoria Infirmary in Newcastle, and Lansley’s visit to the Royal Free Hospital, were PR disasters for the Tories, but reporting on them was censored, even to the extent of reporters being locked in hospital waiting rooms. A mass demonstration by opponents of the NHS Bill last Wednesday wasn’t even mentioned on the BBC.

by bobby Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:55 pm

Brilliant post,very well said Ivan, not one word out of place.

If they dont want to be thought of as Nazi's, then better they dont act as Nazi's.

by blueturando Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:19 am

Brilliant post,very well said Ivan, not one word out of place

Yeah Brilliant post Ivan? If it was like Nazi Germany you and others of your ilk would have been executed by now

Now why dont you bend over and let Bobby stick his toungue where he obviously wants to Smile

by witchfinder Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:49 am

As time goes by I find myself hating the Tories more and more, the latest despicable and dirty low down trick is what they are now doing to the thousands of disabled Remploy staff - throwing them to the wind.

But I still feel its going too far to compare them to Nazis

THe Conservatives are very nasty, vindictive and utterly cruel, the thought of hundreds of disabled workers been thrown out of work is appauling, and for many of these people it will be virtualy impossible finding another job.

In a decent society it wouldent matter that a company like Remploy was subsidised by the government, after all, these are people who would not find it easy either getting a job or fitting in, for many of these disabled workers their job at Remploy is their only or main social interaction, the staff canteen is where many get their only cooked meal.

This announcement is Dickensian, it makes you wonder what will come next ? - close down the salvation army hostels, demolish doctor barnardos or evict the local RSPCA shelter.

Nasty Tories

by oftenwrong Mon Mar 12, 2012 11:05 am

I regard the Coalition's obvious nastiness as something of a plus. At the next General Election the truth of their attitude to the less fortunate will be firmly in the public domain, and the hitherto warm and cuddly image of Lib-Dems has been dispelled.

No wonder Ed Miliband is keeping a low profile - the return of a Labour Government is virtually assured whether he shouts and waves his arms about or simply waits for the fruit to drop in his lap.

by blueturando Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:21 pm

As time goes by I find myself hating the Tories more and more, the latest despicable and dirty low down trick is what they are now doing to the thousands of disabled Remploy staff - throwing them to the wind

.

Withchy......Labour closed 28 of these factories in 2008, so they obviously agreed this system was too expensive or wasn't working

Liz Sayce (Clief Exec of RADAR, now called Disability Rights UK) carried out a review and the government consulted her on her recommendations. That consultation showed that the proposal that money should follow individuals and not institutions received widespread support
The views in that consultation also supported the proposition that Government-funded segregated employment is not the way forward for disabled people

by blueturando Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:23 pm

No wonder Ed Miliband is keeping a low profile - the return of a Labour Government is virtually assured whether he shouts and waves his arms about or simply waits for the fruit to drop in his lap..

OW......I just hope that you, the Labour Party and its supporters keep thinking this way all the way to the next GE

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