Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

First topic message reminder :

In my opinion, the UK under our extreme right-wing government is rapidly degenerating into velvet glove fascism.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Michael Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. Gove has plans for military cadets in every school (Cameron Youth?) and a return to children sitting in rows reciting lists of kings and queens in history lessons, rather than learning to think. Hitler also realised how important history was to indoctrination when he ordered the mass burning of books. Tories close libraries.

Hitler made sure that he controlled the media. The Tories have cowed the BBC by threats of fragmentation and sharing the licence fee with others, such as Murdoch. The BBC, which was required to be impartial, has become just another mouthpiece for Tory propaganda. As soon as they came to power in 2010, the Tories instructed every minister to repeat over and over again the whopping lie that Labour, not Tory bankers, caused the global credit crisis. We have the repeated lie about everyone in the public sector getting “gold-plated pensions”, when the average is only £5,600 per annum. As Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Cameron has proved over and over again that he’s a pathological liar.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. Duncan Smith went on breakfast television on 27 May 2010 and made the chilling remark: "Work makes you free". That's an exact translation of the sign which used to hang over the entrances to concentration camps.

The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for companies such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's unpaid. Cancer patients are being made to undergo work assessments while being treated with chemotherapy, and wounded soldiers are being sacked. (Osborne is willing to take money from the disabled and cancer patients, but not prepared to veto Hester's bonus from the largely state-owned RBS.)

The police are being trained to shoot people with rubber bullets and will be issued with water cannon, yet the Tories were so keen on helping Arab rebels in North Africa. Two unknown Scottish teenagers made a joke on 'Facebook' about organising riots, and they both received four years in jail. A prominent Tory TV presenter (and personal friend of Cameron) made a tasteless joke about murdering trade unionists on prime time television; nothing was done about it and the BBC continue to pay him £1 million a year of our money.

We don't have any concentration camps in the UK, but the principles are the same - propaganda, indoctrination, and divide and rule by demonising a section of the population. While Hitler gassed Jews, the Tories clearly don't care if benefit claimants starve to death. Even payments from the Social Fund, for those in the most desperate need, will no longer be available from job centres but will be at the 'discretion' of local councils, who will not have to ring-fence the money. All the ingredients of fascism are there, but it's just being handed out to us in a more genteel form than Hitler used - in velvet gloves.

Trev, Your Father was obveously a Gentleman, you should have heard what my old Dad Called her.

Only one word for her trevor "WITCH"!!!!!!

Hello bobby

"Those that invest"

Did you see on "This week" Thursday night?
They had the multi millionair Stringfellow, Tory fanatic on the show.

He was going on about the top rate of tax. He wants it lowered as he says he will plough the difference into his business to expand further to create employment.
The way I see that is ok for the likes of him and a few others who are so rich that they can do what he suggests. My gripe is about the thousands upon thousands earning £150k pa and above who will simply use the reduction for their own personal use. For example buying a yacht or another property overseas and worse buying some poor sods property that has been repossessed here in the UK and sold for a pitence at auction. Then of course letting it out at some extortional rental.

Watch Osborne reduce the top rate in the budget, i'ts a cert.

Hi Mel. Who in their right mind is going to invest in the UK, with the present economic climate.

But then if the Pratt Stringfellow says he will, it must all be OK out there. Isn't it?

Anyway thats just what we need to bolster Britains future, More bleeding pole or lap dancers.

Good Witch of the North

The wife is available with tea and scones!


Now where are the Brownie Points?

"multi millionair Stringfellow, Tory fanatic "

Some rich people can remember having been poor, and they will fight tooth and nail to avoid reverting to that condition.

(What would you do?)

OW Quote--"(What would you do?)"

Certainly NOT vote Tory.

Thousands of people have always been poor and have no chance of becoming rich. However they do expect to be treated fairly in the 21st Century. Unfortunately their mild expectations of fairness from this Tory dominated Coalition have been deminished.

bobby Quote--"
Anyway thats just what we need to bolster Britains future, More bleeding pole or lap dancers."

Now that's good for growth of some sort, init?

My family's background is a very modest one, although its members had a tradition over many decades of voting Tory -or pretending to be Liberal, and still voting Conservative.

I am financially better-off by far than any of my forebears, but I am as likely to vote Tory as I am to deliberately drive a six-inch nail into my own foot whilst shouting : " Bring back Margaret Thatcher!".

Sadly, I have no real enthusiasm for any party when it comes down to it - they need to invent a new one. Any ideas...?

The tories are not fascists, because fascists are only called in when capitalism is in near-terminal crisis. They are just paid servants of the City, like the media and the forelock-tuggers, half-witted, short-sighted fools. Time we all woke up.

"Sadly, I have no real enthusiasm for any party when it comes down to it - they need to invent a new one. Any ideas...?"

Old TLTTF could perhaps advise you Phil. Where the hell is he? he is conspicuous by his absense.

Stox 16 wrote:

blueturando wrote:

I wouldn’t go as far as to say they are fascists

It's ok Betty......some on here use that term to justify their own predjudices and envy

envy of the Tories....get away with you Blue...There far too Sad a party to envy..

They have S.F.A to envy but plenty to pity Stox ?

bobby wrote:Trev, Your Father was obveously a Gentleman, you should have heard what my old Dad Called her.

You have never heard what I thought of her and too save face and this forum, just think of the worst words you never thought you knew and then triple them and thats what I thought of "THE WICKED WITCH OF THE SOUTH" .

" "THE WICKED WITCH OF THE SOUTH" ."

No doubt, but to some of us, Grantham is Outer Newcastle.

Only the Historians will be able to evaluate the effect of Thatcher's policies on the British economy subsequently. Just now it looks as though she cut the Nation off at its knees, but perhaps we're still too close to it to make a judgment.

The certainty is that the Cameron-Clegg-Osborne triumvirate have no intention of casting Thatcherism into the Outer Darkness. They think it's rather jolly.

Fly my pretties, fly

The North South divide used to be considerd as a line that you crossed at Watford Gap.


Tony Blair had a survey done, and the University - loughborough I think said the line (toward the end of his 'reign') was adjudged to be from Gloucester to Goole in Lincolnshire.

Obviously he buried the report.


I wonder where the line would be drawn today?

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?
by astra Today at 8:35 pm




The North South divide used to be considerd as a line that you crossed at Watford Gap.


Tony Blair had a survey done, and the University - loughborough I think said the line (toward the end of his 'reign') was adjudged to be from Gloucester to Goole in Lincolnshire.

Obviously he buried the report.


I wonder where the line would be drawn today?

Right through the middle of my flat, with me living on the wrong side of the line:(

I think we will have to wait and see, until the poor in London who can't afford the rent under the cuts have to move out and find somewhere cheaper. My theory is that this has all been planned by the Removal Industry. Perhaps a contribution to Tory funds. Or am I just being cynical.

MR Pickford has dropped them a bung!

Redflag wrote:

Stox 16 wrote:

blueturando wrote:

I wouldn’t go as far as to say they are fascists

It's ok Betty......some on here use that term to justify their own predjudices and envy

envy of the Tories....get away with you Blue...There far too Sad a party to envy..

They have S.F.A to envy but plenty to pity Stox ?

God dead right Red....I pity any die hard Tory...there economy is an utter mess...The LD have them on a lead and take them for walk each day...and they have more meeting at number 10 than any party in History with the net result of nothing at the end of them..

I really do think that comparing them to facists trivialises the debate, and actually is insulting to people who lived through the madness of facism in the 1930/40 's

Absolutely. The Fascists of the 1930s in Britain, Spain, Italy and of course Germany were a particularly vicious breed, far nastier than any of the right-wing extremists strutting the contemporary fringes.

For now.

The price of Liberty is eternal vigilance.

betty.noire wrote:-
I really do think that comparing them to fascists trivialises the debate, and actually is insulting to people who lived through the madness of fascism in the 1930/40 's

As the instigator of this thread, you wouldn’t expect me to agree! As oftenwrong has reminded us “the price of liberty is eternal vigilance”, and the greatest disservice we could pay to the people who perished under the jack boot would be to let it rise again.

For a start, I’ve called it “velvet glove fascism”, because we don’t have any concentration camps or one group of people being forced to wear badges, yet. However, there are, in my opinion, some chilling similarities. When this government came to power, all its ministers were sent out like automotons to repeat over and over again the lie that Labour had caused the global credit crunch. That’s pure Goebbels - say it often enough and people will believe it.

This government has demonised one section of the population, namely benefit claimants. It’s forcing terminally ill cancer patients to take fitness-to-work tests and withdrawing disability living allowance from incapacitated children (even though Cameron himself claimed it for his sick child). The Nazis moved Jews out of their shops and houses, while this government’s housing benefit policy is moving thousands of people out of their homes, especially in London.

The contempt for democracy shown by this government matches Hitler’s antics. Cameron fixed the length of parliaments at five years – without a mandate. He’s forcing through the privatisation by stealth of the NHS, showing complete contempt for what he promised the electorate in 2010. Lansley has twice been ordered, once by a judge, to release the NHS Risk Register, but is still refusing to do so. Cameron and his government act as if they’re above the law.

While the Nazis had Hitler Youth, Gove is planning military cadets in every school. Just as Hitler controlled the media, so does Cameron, largely with the help of Murdoch, but also by planting Chris Patten in the BBC and threatening the corporation with fragmentation. Nearly every day you can read examples on ‘Twitter’ of how news, especially relating to the NHS, has gone unreported. Cameron’s visit to the Royal Victoria Infirmary in Newcastle, and Lansley’s visit to the Royal Free Hospital, were PR disasters for the Tories, but reporting on them was censored, even to the extent of reporters being locked in hospital waiting rooms. A mass demonstration by opponents of the NHS Bill last Wednesday wasn’t even mentioned on the BBC.

Brilliant post,very well said Ivan, not one word out of place.

If they dont want to be thought of as Nazi's, then better they dont act as Nazi's.

Brilliant post,very well said Ivan, not one word out of place

Yeah Brilliant post Ivan? If it was like Nazi Germany you and others of your ilk would have been executed by now

Now why dont you bend over and let Bobby stick his toungue where he obviously wants to

As time goes by I find myself hating the Tories more and more, the latest despicable and dirty low down trick is what they are now doing to the thousands of disabled Remploy staff - throwing them to the wind.

But I still feel its going too far to compare them to Nazis

THe Conservatives are very nasty, vindictive and utterly cruel, the thought of hundreds of disabled workers been thrown out of work is appauling, and for many of these people it will be virtualy impossible finding another job.

In a decent society it wouldent matter that a company like Remploy was subsidised by the government, after all, these are people who would not find it easy either getting a job or fitting in, for many of these disabled workers their job at Remploy is their only or main social interaction, the staff canteen is where many get their only cooked meal.

This announcement is Dickensian, it makes you wonder what will come next ? - close down the salvation army hostels, demolish doctor barnardos or evict the local RSPCA shelter.

Nasty Tories

I regard the Coalition's obvious nastiness as something of a plus. At the next General Election the truth of their attitude to the less fortunate will be firmly in the public domain, and the hitherto warm and cuddly image of Lib-Dems has been dispelled.

No wonder Ed Miliband is keeping a low profile - the return of a Labour Government is virtually assured whether he shouts and waves his arms about or simply waits for the fruit to drop in his lap.

As time goes by I find myself hating the Tories more and more, the latest despicable and dirty low down trick is what they are now doing to the thousands of disabled Remploy staff - throwing them to the wind

.

Withchy......Labour closed 28 of these factories in 2008, so they obviously agreed this system was too expensive or wasn't working

Liz Sayce (Clief Exec of RADAR, now called Disability Rights UK) carried out a review and the government consulted her on her recommendations. That consultation showed that the proposal that money should follow individuals and not institutions received widespread support
The views in that consultation also supported the proposition that Government-funded segregated employment is not the way forward for disabled people

No wonder Ed Miliband is keeping a low profile - the return of a Labour Government is virtually assured whether he shouts and waves his arms about or simply waits for the fruit to drop in his lap..

OW......I just hope that you, the Labour Party and its supporters keep thinking this way all the way to the next GE

that money should follow individuals and not institutions

This is what happened when someone closed the Mental Hospitals and started care in the community. This has turned out to be a feeding fest for Psychiatrists and Lawyers who have no comeback on their bad decisions.

Has care in the community helped the people (or indeed, their relatives) who need the help?

How are these disabled people going to be helped. Remember that this creates MORE work for the councils, instead of going to one location and seeing 30 people, each is going to have to be individually tracked down, thereby needing MORE social workers, and petrol allowances. (Maybe the plan is to use free charities and free job seekers, I would hope NOT!)

In the main, these are your Downs Syndrome sufferers, Deaf Mute and I have seen Deaf Blind Mute folk getting on my train for Jarrow (THAT HAS to be terrible) are the Doctors who are Accountants now as well, going to spend their time filling out forms - GPs say they don't have the time to do the work now.

I do not mind change when improvements for the CUSTOMER are assured, but this does not stack up to anything like reassurance!

I do not mind change when improvements for the CUSTOMER are assured, but this does not stack up to anything like reassurance!

Agreed Astra....I would like to see how the alternative is going to work and how this would be a better option than Remploy...the devil is in the detail I guess

There is also the old saying, Idle hands do the Devil's work. These people had a purpose, nothing now when Remploy closes.

Who is going to employ them?


(The Jarrow Remploy factory is in the middle of an industrial estate. If you have one next to you, (Remploy), see where it is, and if it looks like a nice little earner for a property developer.

My apologies Bobby......It wasn't written with any malice intended, but if I caused any offense then I retract my flippant/silly comment.

Bobby, I have no personal axe to grind with any posters on Cutting Edge. We all may have differing political views, but then that is why we are here.....to discuss,debate and argue the issues of the day/week/month.

My only disappointment is that the debate is taken back to the gutter as you put it, when I and the party I support are compared to Nazis. This is way off the mark and you know it......and it really doesn't do you, Ivan or any other posters who jump on the band wagon any favours. If anything it comes across as a bit desperate and paranoid

Blue, with respect, the effects of the last 33 years of right wing governance here in the North East, could have been achieved just as determinedly with someone wielding a Luger or a Spandau Assault Weapon.

EDIT


There is no way that any of the Axis governments would have closed Steel Works, Shipbuilding Yards and locked billions of tonnes of Coal underground and untouchable FOREVER. They would have put those NATIONAL assets to work! but no supporter of the Cons resorts to pointing that one out!

With respect Astra...and I could go on forever on this one...

If a government, the workers and the unions cannot make a state owned business competetive in the global market we all now live in, then it will continue losing tax payers money hand over fist. Why would other nations private industry and the population buy a product that was vastly more expensive than the competition?

Astra quote.

This is what happened when someone closed the Mental Hospitals and started care in the community. This has turned out to be a feeding fest for Psychiatrists and Lawyers who have no comeback on their bad decisions.


Not quite sure what you mean by 'no come back on their bad decisions'.

The Legal Ombudsman (took over in 2010 from other bodies) is there to adjudicate on clients complaints, and yes, it does find against solicitors on proven occasions. That's it simply, though it's a bit more complicated involving various legal 'governing' bodies.

I believe Solicitors have an insurance policy for such cases. At least, that's how it used to be.

Psychiatrists are 'nutty' anyway ooops. Don't know about them.

There was no way that the state owned businesses could be "Viable" (Harold Wilson's word!)

They were used -
By the workey tickets for a good larf at the country's expense - Moscow was having wet dreams over it!
By the Governments who were supposed to be looking after the industries.
The governments came up with scams to put more and more people in these industries without them making/producing anything. This was to keep the dole figures down and massage the unemployed statistics
The Governments put less and less money into the industries, for modern machinery thus preventing tendering for the big contracts that were floating around, and faster modern technology. The grants for new machines were whittled down then stopped by Heath! Yet all the continental factories were getting massive governmental help, don't start me on "The Marshall Plan!"
By placing restrictions on their activities - BR could not tender for foreign rolling stock building work for instance (especially under Labour, but even under Conservative administrations.) This kept us behind when it came to producing the fast trains you see in Europe.

There is a balance when running a COUNTRY between keeping people employed and paying out dole money. I would suggest you follow the path of least expence to the treasury! Paying unemployment benefit and ALL the other factors into account keeping the industries open would have been better for us!

There were FAR FAR too many people in this country who wanted us to fail - and we almost did. Neil Kinnock ASKING the Kremlin what deal he would get from them for a nyook free UK should he get to Number 10 is the epitomy of this!
There were far to many foreign countries who wanted to see us fail, and most of them are still at the "game"