Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

First topic message reminder :

In my opinion, the UK under our extreme right-wing government is rapidly degenerating into velvet glove fascism.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Michael Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. Gove has plans for military cadets in every school (Cameron Youth?) and a return to children sitting in rows reciting lists of kings and queens in history lessons, rather than learning to think. Hitler also realised how important history was to indoctrination when he ordered the mass burning of books. Tories close libraries.

Hitler made sure that he controlled the media. The Tories have cowed the BBC by threats of fragmentation and sharing the licence fee with others, such as Murdoch. The BBC, which was required to be impartial, has become just another mouthpiece for Tory propaganda. As soon as they came to power in 2010, the Tories instructed every minister to repeat over and over again the whopping lie that Labour, not Tory bankers, caused the global credit crisis. We have the repeated lie about everyone in the public sector getting “gold-plated pensions”, when the average is only £5,600 per annum. As Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Cameron has proved over and over again that he’s a pathological liar.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. Duncan Smith went on breakfast television on 27 May 2010 and made the chilling remark: "Work makes you free". That's an exact translation of the sign which used to hang over the entrances to concentration camps.

The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for companies such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's unpaid. Cancer patients are being made to undergo work assessments while being treated with chemotherapy, and wounded soldiers are being sacked. (Osborne is willing to take money from the disabled and cancer patients, but not prepared to veto Hester's bonus from the largely state-owned RBS.)

The police are being trained to shoot people with rubber bullets and will be issued with water cannon, yet the Tories were so keen on helping Arab rebels in North Africa. Two unknown Scottish teenagers made a joke on 'Facebook' about organising riots, and they both received four years in jail. A prominent Tory TV presenter (and personal friend of Cameron) made a tasteless joke about murdering trade unionists on prime time television; nothing was done about it and the BBC continue to pay him £1 million a year of our money.

We don't have any concentration camps in the UK, but the principles are the same - propaganda, indoctrination, and divide and rule by demonising a section of the population. While Hitler gassed Jews, the Tories clearly don't care if benefit claimants starve to death. Even payments from the Social Fund, for those in the most desperate need, will no longer be available from job centres but will be at the 'discretion' of local councils, who will not have to ring-fence the money. All the ingredients of fascism are there, but it's just being handed out to us in a more genteel form than Hitler used - in velvet gloves.

There was no way that the state owned businesses could be "Viable" (Harold Wilson's word!)

They were used -
By the workey tickets for a good larf at the country's expense - Moscow was having wet dreams over it!
By the Governments who were supposed to be looking after the industries.
The governments came up with scams to put more and more people in these industries without them making/producing anything. This was to keep the dole figures down and massage the unemployed statistics
The Governments put less and less money into the industries, for modern machinery thus preventing tendering for the big contracts that were floating around, and faster modern technology. The grants for new machines were whittled down then stopped by Heath! Yet all the continental factories were getting massive governmental help, don't start me on "The Marshall Plan!"
By placing restrictions on their activities - BR could not tender for foreign rolling stock building work for instance (especially under Labour, but even under Conservative administrations.) This kept us behind when it came to producing the fast trains you see in Europe.

There is a balance when running a COUNTRY between keeping people employed and paying out dole money. I would suggest you follow the path of least expence to the treasury! Paying unemployment benefit and ALL the other factors into account keeping the industries open would have been better for us!

There were FAR FAR too many people in this country who wanted us to fail - and we almost did. Neil Kinnock ASKING the Kremlin what deal he would get from them for a nyook free UK should he get to Number 10 is the epitomy of this!
There were far to many foreign countries who wanted to see us fail, and most of them are still at the "game"

There have been cases where mental patients have been released into society only to kill and maim their victims in the street. These are well documented.

The trickcyclists who say they can be released have no come back on them and are therefore allowed to continue, guilt free messing about with society's hangups. The lawers who sign all the forms are equally liable IMO

As our OW has said, the Legal and Medical Proffessions are the oldest unions in this country who act with seeming impunity.

The lawers who sign all the forms are equally liable IMO



Recently a mother took her child to the doctor who sent her to a hospital. The hospital looked at the child, gave the mother instructions on treating the child. Sadly the child died, and it was found that the hospital had wrongly diagnosed. Was the mother to blame? She followed the experts advice. (Actual case)

Blame the experts who get it wrong in the cases you mention. Not the people who rely on the experts.

The lawers who sign all the forms are equally liable IMO

to the psychiatrists who allowed these unfortunate folk out of where they were

Trevor, where have I blamed the mentally ill?


There but fot the grace of God go I

That I would not do. BUT! When some self edifying, overpaid "perfeshnul" gets it wrong he had to be brought to task - that is not happening.

There are cases here in Newcastle of exactly the case you highlite and yes thee doctors should be brought to book. The doctor in the Baby P case was criticised, but not in any way inconvenienced!

Getting back on topic....

blueturando wrote:-
My only disappointment is that the debate is taken back to the gutter as you put it, when I and the party I support are compared to Nazis.

LOL. That's a bit rich coming from someone who tries to smear the party I support by putting Hitler in his avatar!

At least I've offered several reasoned explanations of why I think the Tories under Cameron are velvet glove fascists (or "Nazis in suits", as one person posted on 'Twitter' at the weekend).

Yes sorry Ivan, this rolled over from the Remploy closures.

OK Blue is hurt by the fascist tag, I have said NO axis power would have done what the tories did.

I have not been quizzed on my assessment of who is worse, the Axiss or the Conservatives.


Any old soldier on here will tell you that it is impossible to win when your opponent does not wear a uniform!

blueturando.
If you don’t want the party you support to be called Nazi’s, may I suggest you give your support to another party, One that is not alike to the early Nazi Party. The implication being, they will if allowed get just like the latter Nazi party.

This Tory party have and are doing more damage to the lesser mortals than I can remember. It as though each week they are finding new ways to line their own pockets at the cost of the poor, sick, unemployed and elderly, just how far will they have to go to make you stand up and see them exactly for what they are. They almost won the last Election on the back of “we are all in it together” when we plainly are not, or “the debt, deficit or mess Labour left us” which they didn’t and “we will not have top down reform of the NHS” As I said before, this party is absolutely nothing like the Party you voted for, yet you continue to give your support, That says as much about yourself as it does for them.

If Labour made the same promise to me, then treated me as a pillock as Herr Cameron has you, there is no way in a million years would they get my support.

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

It seems that the longer they are in power, the more of the velvet wears off.

LOL. That's a bit rich coming from someone who tries to smear the party I support by putting Hitler in his avatar!

Agreed Ivan, I really shouldn't have lowered myself to this level...maybe it's monkey see, monkey do

well that depends on who the monkeys are. And for the matter of you shouldnt have lowered yourself to that level. The simple answer is "You Did"

bobby wrote:blueturando.
If you don’t want the party you support to be called Nazi’s, may I suggest you give your support to another party, One that is not alike to the early Nazi Party. The implication being, they will if allowed get just like the latter Nazi party.

This Tory party have and are doing more damage to the lesser mortals than I can remember. It as though each week they are finding new ways to line their own pockets at the cost of the poor, sick, unemployed and elderly, just how far will they have to go to make you stand up and see them exactly for what they are. They almost won the last Election on the back of “we are all in it together” when we plainly are not, or “the debt, deficit or mess Labour left us” which they didn’t and “we will not have top down reform of the NHS” As I said before, this party is absolutely nothing like the Party you voted for, yet you continue to give your support, That says as much about yourself as it does for them.

If Labour made the same promise to me, then treated me as a pillock as Herr Cameron has you, there is no way in a million years would they get my support.

Well said bobby you have told it like it is with no frills and yet after all this people will vote for them, and that says a lot about there HUMANITY and just proves they are all the bloody same. NASTY BACKSTUDS.

And they have the cheek to talk about Ed Miliband but I have managed to work that one out its because they know he has got what it takes to get himself elected into 10 Downing Street at the next GE and there trying to destroy him by there snidy snotty remarks but have you noticed he never replies to Scam..er..on in kind that is because he is the gentleman and Scam..er..on is just a NASTY PIECE OF WORK and is not fit to wipe Ed Milibands boots.

I agree bobby if the Labour party had done that I would not stand for it my membership card would be in BITS by now in fact I send emails now when I think that they are not doing the right thing and often threaten not to renew my membership and believe me I would do it.

I wish I could share your love of all things Labour, but I'm afraid they have a poor track record

To try and fund American style taxes with Scandanavian style public services funded by the Tax receipts on bits of paper being passed around at ever increasing speed was going to end in tears

It is worth pointing out that fascist methods are used only when they have to be - when the power of those who own everything is under serious threat and they have to give up power to those who can destroy working-class organisation and, preferably, the democratic system as well. That is a costly and dangerous process, and they do not enter into it lightly. Cameron's City government has no problem: with pretty total control of the media , a 'triangulating'opposition and a deeply naive intelligensia, they can simply kick the mugs where it hurt with no fear of anyone but the young, who have no adequate organisation. We have a long way to sink yet.

I wish I could share your love of all things Labour, but I'm afraid they have a poor track record

Please don't burst their bubble Betty, some on here cannot accept reality

betty.noire wrote:I wish I could share your love of all things Labour, but I'm afraid they have a poor track record

To try and fund American style taxes with Scandanavian style public services funded by the Tax receipts on bits of paper being passed around at ever increasing speed was going to end in tears

I do not think so, but will end badly is this Tory Gov't term in office when there cuts start to enrage the decent people of the UK.

Hello! Tide's gone out again. Now we can see the rocks that disrupt smooth sailing.

I do not think so, but will end badly is this Tory Gov't term in office when there cuts start to enrage the decent people of the UK

Nobody wants cuts Redflag, but fortunately a majority of the general public realise that action had to be taken...however much it hurts

blueturando wrote:

I do not think so, but will end badly is this Tory Gov't term in office when there cuts start to enrage the decent people of the UK

Nobody wants cuts Redflag, but fortunately a majority of the general public realise that action had to be taken...however much it hurts

Blue bobby is right Scam..er..on is hitting the people that can not afford these cuts, why is he not hitting the bloody banks that caused the FCUKING MESS no they are getting away SCOT FREE while the normal WORKING MAN/WOMEN are paying the bloody price but the B(W)ankers are still getting there big fat salaries and just too rub it in BONUSES while the rest of us have too take pay cuts, freezes or loose there job, that is why the normal working man/women has never voted Tory.

NEWSFLASH:: On the 5th May 2010 the more that half of the UK had a MENTAL BREAKDOWN due too the LIES that where spouted by the Yellow and BLUE Tories

NEWSFLASH:: On the 5th May 2010 the more that half of the UK had a MENTAL BREAKDOWN due too the LIES that where spouted by the Yellow and BLUE Tories

.

Then you have nothing to worry about Redflag. If the coalition are and do as bad as you lot make out it will be a landslide Labour victory at the next GE wont it!?

NEWSFLASH:: On the 5th May 2010 the more that half of the UK had a MENTAL BREAKDOWN due too the LIES that where spouted by the Yellow and BLUE Tories

Blimey Redflag, that's being a bit optimistic isn't it. I doubt more than 25% of the population even listen to what is being said. Personally I put an x beside each candidate and then can truthfully claim I voted for them if I ever meet them:D

trevorw2539 wrote:NEWSFLASH:: On the 5th May 2010 the more that half of the UK had a MENTAL BREAKDOWN due too the LIES that where spouted by the Yellow and BLUE Tories

Blimey Redflag, that's being a bit optimistic isn't it. I doubt more than 25% of the population even listen to what is being said. Personally I put an x beside each candidate and then can truthfully claim I voted for them if I ever meet them:D

There must of been quite a lot of people that voted Tory, Labour had let them down in one way or another and they where willing to listen to the Lib/Dems lies about Uni fees and all the promises that the Tories ie the NHS is safe in our hands thats a bloody laugh that was and of course all the other promises that they made and broke.

betty.noire:-
I wish I could share your love of all things Labour, but I'm afraid they have a poor track record

I don't know anyone who loves "all things Labour", and I certainly don't. I wish we hadn't joined Bush's 'crusade' to Iraq, I think HIPS were a silly idea, and Labour didn't build anywhere near enough new houses. However, while this government seems to be breaking just about every promise it made, Blair's government fulfilled 80% of its 1997 promises in its first five years:-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1961522.stm

This is Labour's "track record" for its thirteen years in government:-
- Uninterrupted economic growth from 1997 to 2008
- Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 1960s
- Made Bank of England independent
- Minimum wage introduced and increased
- Minimum Income Guarantee for working families
- Nearly 3 million more people in work since 1997
- ‘New Deal’ for young unemployed
- Entitlement to 28 days paid leave annually
- Trebled spending on NHS
- 85,000 more nurses and 32,000 more doctors
- Brought back matrons to hospital wards
- Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70
- Set up NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice
- More than doubled spending on education
- Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
- Nursery school entitlement for all three and four year olds
- Free fruit for most four to six year-olds at school
- Child benefit increased by 26% in real terms since 1997
- Set up Child Trust Funds
- Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard
- Minimum Income Guarantee for pensioners
- Winter fuel payments to OAPs
- Free prescriptions and eye tests for everyone over the age of 60
- Free TV licences for over 75s
- Free bus passes for pensioners
- Reduced VAT on gas and electricity from 8% to 5%
- Cut standard rate of income tax from 23p in 1997 to 20p (lowest since the 1930s)
- Free admission to museums and galleries
- 14,000 more police
- Brokered peace in Northern Ireland
- Banned smoking in public places
- Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution
- Banned driving when using a mobile phone
- Abolished foxhunting
- Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals
- Introduced civil partnerships
- Restored city-wide government to London
- Cleared most hereditary peers out of House of Lords

Ivan, I wonder just how much of all that will be left in 3 years time.

Wonder indeed. Here's one Coalition Corpse already:

Set up NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice
Now being downgraded to a Call Centre using non-qualified Operatives.

Is this the one that is going to be an 0845 number?

Gworsh!!

That wiz a quick response!

oftenwrong wrote:Wonder indeed. Here's one Coalition Corpse already:

Set up NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice
Now being downgraded to a Call Centre using non-qualified Operatives.

The 111 service is free to call and is staffed by a team of fully trained call advisers, supported by nurses, who are on hand to assess callers’ needs and ensure they receive the right service as quickly as possible. It guides patients to a locally available service or provides appropriate advice and information 24 hours a day, 365 days a year

The 111 service is excellent. I had a pain in my head, passed out. When I came to I made the call and the nurse gave me a series of questions/tests over the phone and had a local nurse call on me fairly quickly. This was in the middle of the night.

I have a lot of problems the the Tory NHS schemes. This one seems to work.

Good news then. Speak as you find. I experienced faultless service from the original system four or five years ago.

Which leads me to ask, "If it wasn't broke, why did they fix it?"



http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.108894!/file/NHS111Interim2final.pdf

It's good to hear that one nocturnal nurse and a breathalyser can so speedily remedy all the those little problems...

Phil Hornby wrote:It's good to hear that one nocturnal nurse and a breathalyser can so speedily remedy all the those little problems...

very droll

Drollery won't hurt us, but Lansley's brief is to turn the NHS upside down, shake it, and see where the dust settles.

If he's changed the way the public interface with the First-call telephone advice service IT'S FOR A REASON.

TORY reasons, not pro bono publico.

Re: Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?
by oftenwrong Today at 7:06 pm




Good news then. Speak as you find. I experienced faultless service from the original system four or five years ago.

Which leads me to ask, "If it wasn't broke, why did they fix it?"


With that I agree.

bobby wrote:Ivan, I wonder just how much of all that will be left in 3 years time.

Thats an easy question to answer bobby "Sweet FCUK ALL" because it will all be in the hands of the private sector including the NHS there is one hospital been sold to the private sector already and there is another in the pipeline so there you go bobby.

You are of course right Red. Its just a shame that a once honerable political party like the Liberals have reduced themselves to what they have become.

Many of the old school Liberal rank and file members have left them out of principle, leaving the unprincipled following the Tory Clegg.

Did you see him on PMQ’s, well up for it was he not, I closed my eyes for a second and thought Herr Cameron had returned from the US. He is no different than Herr Cameron, and as Harriet Harman pointed out to him, He and the rest of the lib-dem MP’s could have killed the hated NHS bill, Clegg’s answer was to agree with it. What chance has democracy got when we have a scumbag who lost the Election by a Massive number of votes, standing up in the house of Commons standing in for the Prime minister.

I used to have a sympathy for Proportional Representation, but what is now happening in our Government, all deals are done behind locked doors, and the first we hear of them is when its too late.

Labour certainly has a massive job to do once returned to power, and lets hope Ed Milliband really does listen to the people and stabs a few of those thieving Tory supporting Bastards in the front, in the back is the Tory way.

Red.....Get your cheque book out and you can save it

A private company will today become the first to be given the go-ahead by the Treasury to take over the management of a “failing” NHS hospital

Hinchingbrooke was threatened with closure in 2006 but was rescued following public pressure. Despite an annual turnover of about £90 million, it is laden with historic debts, which, despite numerous attempts to tackle them, still remain at £39 million

£39 Million?

WOW!!!


I'll wager there are MANY football clubs who wish they only had debts and bills totaling ONLY £39 million!

What has this country come to?

We've become desensitised to big numbers when reading about the Chancellor's Budget. Billions here, and Billions there - £98Billion on Old Age Pensions alone in 2013.

A Hospital's debt of a mere £39m could be settled by a Bring-and-Buy Sale in comparison.



http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_pensions_budget_2009_0.html