Are the Tories velvet glove fascists?

by **Ivan** Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

In my opinion, the UK under our extreme right-wing government is rapidly degenerating into velvet glove fascism.

Like all fascists, Hitler was against trade unions and socialists. Similarly, Michael Gove vilified primary school teachers and dinner ladies, many of whom went on strike for the first time in their lives on 30 November last year, as “militants itching for a fight”. Gove has plans for military cadets in every school (Cameron Youth?) and a return to children sitting in rows reciting lists of kings and queens in history lessons, rather than learning to think. Hitler also realised how important history was to indoctrination when he ordered the mass burning of books. Tories close libraries.

Hitler made sure that he controlled the media. The Tories have cowed the BBC by threats of fragmentation and sharing the licence fee with others, such as Murdoch. The BBC, which was required to be impartial, has become just another mouthpiece for Tory propaganda. As soon as they came to power in 2010, the Tories instructed every minister to repeat over and over again the whopping lie that Labour, not Tory bankers, caused the global credit crisis. We have the repeated lie about everyone in the public sector getting “gold-plated pensions”, when the average is only £5,600 per annum. As Goebbels said: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." Cameron has proved over and over again that he’s a pathological liar.

Hitler divided and ruled the German people by scapegoating Jews and gypsies. The Tories are demonising those who receive benefits, one result of which is that disability hate crimes are increasing. Duncan Smith went on breakfast television on 27 May 2010 and made the chilling remark: "Work makes you free". That's an exact translation of the sign which used to hang over the entrances to concentration camps.

The Tories have plans to force 50,000 disabled youth to work for companies such as Sainsbury's and Tesco's unpaid. Cancer patients are being made to undergo work assessments while being treated with chemotherapy, and wounded soldiers are being sacked. (Osborne is willing to take money from the disabled and cancer patients, but not prepared to veto Hester's bonus from the largely state-owned RBS.)

The police are being trained to shoot people with rubber bullets and will be issued with water cannon, yet the Tories were so keen on helping Arab rebels in North Africa. Two unknown Scottish teenagers made a joke on 'Facebook' about organising riots, and they both received four years in jail. A prominent Tory TV presenter (and personal friend of Cameron) made a tasteless joke about murdering trade unionists on prime time television; nothing was done about it and the BBC continue to pay him £1 million a year of our money.

We don't have any concentration camps in the UK, but the principles are the same - propaganda, indoctrination, and divide and rule by demonising a section of the population. While Hitler gassed Jews, the Tories clearly don't care if benefit claimants starve to death. Even payments from the Social Fund, for those in the most desperate need, will no longer be available from job centres but will be at the 'discretion' of local councils, who will not have to ring-fence the money. All the ingredients of fascism are there, but it's just being handed out to us in a more genteel form than Hitler used - in velvet gloves.

by **Phil Hornby** Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:32 pm

The Disabled - a Commentator's View...

Are the Tories velvet glove fascists? - Page 15 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrTGOGpGdJ33Xi58MBXhaQg4nVEKPuZzyuAKX5WprOPPMK0zpEug

Are the Tories velvet glove fascists? - Page 15 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSrTGOGpGdJ33Xi58MBXhaQg4nVEKPuZzyuAKX5WprOPPMK0zpEug

(inquisitr.com)

" I am beginning to warm to this Tory Government ..."

by Guest Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:27 pm

Ivan wrote:
… the concept of 'the idle British' is just a lie.

Moreover, without the British, the world would be severely diminished technologically. The Indians, to the best of my knowledge, have gifted unto the world few if any technological innovations within the 20th and 21st Centuries, while much of the technology upon which I have come to depend has been generated by British workers laboring long hours in British facilities.

I think that I could live without outsourced telephone talkers with false “English” names and heavy, hard to understand accents frustrating my efforts to obtain services.

Most of my travel these days is via fanjet-liner; without Rolls Royce leading the way, modern fanjets capable of delivering sufficient, reliable thrust to ensure that modern airliners can safely deliver passengers to their destinations, we would still be back in the day when trains were the primary means of cross-continental transportation in the United States and Canada, and trips that now take five hours would take three days and change.

The Indians have cost me service time at hours per whop; the British have saved me transportation time at days per whop.

by Ivanhoe Sat Aug 25, 2012 7:39 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Ivan wrote:
… the concept of 'the idle British' is just a lie.

Moreover, without the British, the world would be severely diminished technologically. The Indians, to the best of my knowledge, have gifted unto the world few if any technological innovations within the 20th and 21st Centuries, while much of the technology upon which I have come to depend has been generated by British workers laboring long hours in British facilities.

I think that I could live without outsourced telephone talkers with false “English” names and heavy, hard to understand accents frustrating my efforts to obtain services.

Most of my travel these days is via fanjet-liner; without Rolls Royce leading the way, modern fanjets capable of delivering sufficient, reliable thrust to ensure that modern airliners can safely deliver passengers to their destinations, we would still be back in the day when trains were the primary means of cross-continental transportation in the United States and Canada, and trips that now take five hours would take three days and change.

The Indians have cost me service time at hours per whop; the British have saved me transportation time at days per whop.

Try these. England was built on slavery. The white man sole the redskins land. England won the war and continued complacency and arrogance.

To hell with travel, what about arrogance. Cameron's very good at this.

by oftenwrong Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:17 pm

The Conservatives are saving against a rainy day. With resources looking to become scarce as time passes, it make sense to take the spoon away from benefits-claimants and similar charges on the national purse.

Our Captains of Industry fearful of Chinese competition however have failed to learn from history. Beginning with the Industrial Revolution, workers have invariably been priced out of their jobs by OTHER workers who are prepared to work for less money. That is already taking hold in China, where they will no longer work for a bowl of rice a day, and in any case rely increasingly upon the West to buy the product of their labours.

by Guest Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:15 pm

Ivanhoe wrote:
Try these. England was built on slavery.

Athens was built on slavery, Sparta was built on slavery, Phoenicia was built on slavery, Carthage was built on slavery, Rome was built on slavery, Byzantine was built on slavery, Arabia (now Saudi Arabia) was and is built on slavery, Songhai was built on slavery, the Toltec civilization was built on slavery, the Mayan civilization was built on slavery, the Aztec civilization was built on slavery, the Inca civilization was built on slavery, Brazil was built on slavery, Haiti was built on slavery…

Ivanhoe wrote:
To hell with travel…

My loved ones live throughout the continental United States of America. Significant events, including but not limited to graduations, marriages, and funerals, involve transporting multiple persons on multi-thousand miles voyages. Without Rolls-Royce-pioneered fine-tolerance fanjet technology, the required trips would be arduous, multi-day labors.

by Redflag Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:56 am

bobby wrote:Absolutely right Red.

Thanks bobby the trouble within the coalition is getting worse did you see the debate in the H.O.C. on the Lords reform bill? the back bench Tories where out and out nasty to clegg and told him to his face no way this bill was getting through as I have said before "Hell Slap it in to Them".

by Ivanhoe Mon Aug 27, 2012 5:14 pm

""Athens was built on slavery, Sparta was built on slavery, Phoenicia was built on slavery, Carthage was built on slavery, Rome was built on slavery, Byzantine was built on slavery, Arabia (now Saudi Arabia) was and is built on slavery, Songhai was built on slavery, the Toltec civilization was built on slavery, the Mayan civilization was built on slavery, the Aztec civilization was built on slavery, the Inca civilization was built on slavery, Brazil was built on slavery, Haiti was built on slavery…"""

So.............Does this justify us ?, no, it doesnt.

by oftenwrong Mon Aug 27, 2012 6:49 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
Try these. England was built on slavery.

Athens was built on slavery, Sparta was built on slavery, Phoenicia was built on slavery, ....,
Haiti was built on slavery…

Ivanhoe wrote:
To hell with travel…

Haiti was indeed exploited by the French to produce Sugar, which could only economically be farmed with the use of slave labour. When the slaves revolted and expelled their French colonial oppressors, France was supported by the US in demanding compensation, which Haiti is still repaying.

As long as Democratic Capitalism continues to recognise the concept of people as Property, there will be exploitation.

by Guest Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:17 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
Try these. England was built on slavery.
Athens was built on slavery, Sparta was built on slavery, Phoenicia was built on slavery, Carthage was built on slavery, Rome was built on slavery, Byzantine was built on slavery, Arabia (now Saudi Arabia) was and is built on slavery, Songhai was built on slavery, the Toltec civilization was built on slavery, the Mayan civilization was built on slavery, the Aztec civilization was built on slavery, the Inca civilization was built on slavery, Brazil was built on slavery, Haiti was built on slavery…

oftenwrong wrote:
RockOnBrother wrote:
Ivanhoe wrote:
Try these. England was built on slavery.
Athens was built on slavery, Sparta was built on slavery, Phoenicia was built on slavery, ....,
Haiti was built on slavery…

Haiti was indeed exploited by the French to produce Sugar, which could only economically be farmed with the use of slave labour. When the slaves revolted and expelled their French colonial oppressors, France was supported by the US in demanding compensation, which Haiti is still repaying.

The United States inherited slavery and the slave trade, including the cyclical trade pattern, Britain-West Africa-Caribbean-British-American colonies, from the United Kingdom. The United States learned its British-taught lessons well.

I am unaware of any early 19th Century debt being paid by Haiti to anyone in the 21st Century.

oftenwrong wrote:
As long as Democratic Capitalism continues to recognise the concept of people as Property, there will be exploitation.

Sans capitalism, your United Kingdom would be a third world nation. Sans democracy, your de facto republic of the United Kingdom would be a monarchial dictatorship, perhaps with King John’s “spiritual” descendent taxing you beyond poverty into destitution whilst bloating his multiple financial larders in Switzerland and various Caribbean nations.

Socialism has its place; historically, unbridled capitalism has resulted in virtual slavery for workers, whose property, their own labor, (see The Second Treatise of Civil Government, 1690, John Locke, Chapter 5, Of Property), was routinely stolen by capitalist “barons” in England (the birthplace of the Industrial Revolution and modern capitalism), the remainder of the United Kingdom, and the United States, which the linked video describes.

Sixteen Tons - Johnny Cash
https://www.youtube.com/v/tfp2O9ADwGk

I met such a man in the late 1970s. He was a proud working man who had done manual labor from age 15 to age 75, including picking cotton in season for sixty straight years. He received neither social security nor pension, as his employers, capitalist barons, had paid into neither FICA nor private pension retirement funds. After an afternoon of explaining to this gentleman that all citizens and residents of the United States of America that wore clothes benefitted from his labors (I took off my jacket and showed to him the inner label upon which was written “Cotton Blend”), he finally agreed to apply for SSI, Supplemental Security Income, to which he was more than entitled.

by **Ivan** Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:16 am

Creeping fascism....

"The UK is currently in debt to the tune of 66% of GDP, but our National Debt was over 100% of GDP continuously between 1912 and 1961, a period which saw the birth of our welfare state. Indeed for only 50 of the last 300 years has our debt been lower as a % of GDP than now. So we are being asked to sacrifice critical services and social mobility in the name of economic problems which are at best ill-considered and at worst outright lies.

If the actions of an unelected government acting without a mandate, and outside of the written promises upon which its election campaign was based, can destroy your life without consultation or remorse, then you are a slave to their whim. 32 people die every week in our country having been declared fit to work. They die from cancer, from heart disease and from other illnesses that our government’s system routinely ignores, since it views its citizens only in the light of their value to the economy.

Culturally we are unwilling or unable to oppose this tyranny. Not because we think it’s fair but because we have a proud sense of responsibility and a strong moral compass. Teachers don’t want to harm the prospects of their students, doctors say any action they take will hurt patients, yet how many more people will suffer and die as a result of the stripping of the NHS, one of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world?

The Oxford Dictionary defines fascism as 'extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices'. This regime is right-wing, authoritarian and intolerant of the needs of the vast majority of our populace. We are clearly short of anything seen in Nazi Germany, but how long will it take for this creeping elitism to morph into fully fledged fascism? And will we ever manage to change it back?"

For the full article and the rest of a very thoughtful blog:-
http://farmdonkey.blogspot.co.uk/

by Mel Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:22 am

Thanks for that article Ivan. Talk about nail on head. Pity it's not copied onto the front page of the press. We might just see some reaction from these dumb dumb so called British people.

by Ivanhoe Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:40 am

Ivan wrote:Creeping fascism....

"The UK is currently in debt to the tune of 66% of GDP, but our National Debt was over 100% of GDP continuously between 1912 and 1961, a period which saw the birth of our welfare state. Indeed for only 50 of the last 300 years has our debt been lower as a % of GDP than now. So we are being asked to sacrifice critical services and social mobility in the name of economic problems which are at best ill-considered and at worst outright lies.

If the actions of an unelected government acting without a mandate, and outside of the written promises upon which its election campaign was based, can destroy your life without consultation or remorse, then you are a slave to their whim. 32 people die every week in our country having been declared fit to work. They die from cancer, from heart disease and from other illnesses that our government’s system routinely ignores, since it views its citizens only in the light of their value to the economy.

Culturally we are unwilling or unable to oppose this tyranny. Not because we think it’s fair but because we have a proud sense of responsibility and a strong moral compass. Teachers don’t want to harm the prospects of their students, doctors say any action they take will hurt patients, yet how many more people will suffer and die as a result of the stripping of the NHS, one of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world?

The Oxford Dictionary defines fascism as 'extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practices'. This regime is right-wing, authoritarian and intolerant of the needs of the vast majority of our populace. We are clearly short of anything seen in Nazi Germany, but how long will it take for this creeping elitism to morph into fully fledged fascism? And will we ever manage to change it back?"

For the full article and the rest of a very thoughtful blog:-
http://farmdonkey.blogspot.co.uk/

Brilliant. Says it all. Send it to the Guardian.

by **Phil Hornby** Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:58 am

More Wild Animal Sightings

Following the recent somewhat dubious report of a sighting of a lioness in Essex, I now have far more tangible evidence of a hippo roaming Westminster. The public are warned to be very wary of the huge beast and should on no account add to its vast bulk by feeding it...

Are the Tories velvet glove fascists? - Page 15 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzCwudaBWwI4TmLqrqQz3l5n-IWTNcBhXTmE54-Fz2J7p0DOil

Are the Tories velvet glove fascists? - Page 15 Images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTzCwudaBWwI4TmLqrqQz3l5n-IWTNcBhXTmE54-Fz2J7p0DOil

(the-brooks-blog.blogspot.com)

by Redflag Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:10 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:More Wild Animal Sightings

Following the recent somewhat dubious report of a sighting of a lioness in Essex, I now have far more tangible evidence of a hippo roaming Westminster. The public are warned to be very wary of the huge beast and should on no account add to its vast bulk by feeding it...

(the-brooks-blog.blogspot.com)

Great post PH, I think you better send an e-mail to the H.O.C restaurant not to feed him any more PIES and too start serving him rabbit food LETTUCE for the foreseeable future.

by oftenwrong Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:22 pm

RockonBrother said yesterday,

" I am unaware of any early 19th Century debt being paid by Haiti to anyone in the 21st Century."

Quite so, RoB, I'm guilty of a false hypothesis. I knew that Haiti had not repaid the whole of the original amount claimed by France in compensation, so blithely assumed that it was still outstanding. It isn't, as you are obviously aware.

To their eternal credit, the re-formed Government of France after the end of WW2 forgave the debt.

by bobby Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:39 pm

To their eternal credit, the re-formed Government of France after the end of WW2 forgave the debt.

Isn't it a shame the Frogs weren't thinking along the same lines after the signing of the Armistace in 1918. Had they have been less harsh on Germany, there would have been no Freicorps and possibly no World War part 2.

by oftenwrong Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:54 pm

In a spare moment, look up THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS, if you want to.

by sickchip Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:54 pm

What kind of people have we become? What do we admire?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/09/nick-cohen-starving-children-charity

by Ivanhoe Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:26 pm

sickchip wrote:What kind of people have we become? What do we admire?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/09/nick-cohen-starving-children-charity

I read the article, but it didnt tell me anything I didnt know.

But the Guardian article failed in one way, ie refering to Cameron's mob as Conservatives. Cameron isnt a Conservative, he is a Tory of the right wing pursuation.

This country was finished as a civilised country from the 80's and Thatcher, when she began removing the role of the State, we are now reaping what has been sown, because poverty effects all of us, it is a matter of knowing, having insight.

And the big and worse problem is, that in my view the British largely have not seen it coming, and it will get worse, because I cannot see Milliband sorting it out.

Britain has been run on "low income tax" "trickle down economics" for 30 years.

We have a low waged, insecure, market lead work base, and that's the bottom line.

Anybody stating that real poverty is Third World poverty, needs a brain transplant. Wealth distribution is the answser, and not wealth creation.

Wealth creation feeds the rich, wealth distribution looks after the vulnerable, which any of us can be, just like that.

by sickchip Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:30 pm

Britain has been run on "low income tax" "trickle down economics" for 30 years.

We have a low waged, insecure, market lead work base, and that's the bottom line.

Anybody stating that real poverty is Third World poverty, needs a brain transplant. Wealth distribution is the answser, and not wealth creation.

Wealth creation feeds the rich, wealth distribution looks after the vulnerable, which any of us can be, just like that.

Well said, Ivanhoe.

by oftenwrong Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:16 pm

bobby wrote:To their eternal credit, the re-formed Government of France after the end of WW2 forgave the debt.

Isn't it a shame the Frogs weren't thinking along the same lines after the signing of the Armistace in 1918. Had they have been less harsh on Germany, there would have been no Freicorps and possibly no World War part 2.

The Versailles agreement which followed "The Great War" was intent upon punishing the Germans, whose inevitable resentment led directly to WW2.

Northern Europeans in the Eurozone who think Greece and Spain etcetera should be "punished" for their fiscal diarrhoea, have presumably forgotten that bit of history.

by Ivanhoe Sun Sep 09, 2012 9:33 pm

bobby wrote:To their eternal credit, the re-formed Government of France after the end of WW2 forgave the debt.

Isn't it a shame the Frogs weren't thinking along the same lines after the signing of the Armistace in 1918. Had they have been less harsh on Germany, there would have been no Freicorps and possibly no World War part 2.

Kindly dont call the French, frogs, they stick together.

by Mel Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:33 am

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/09/nick-cohen-starving-children-charity Thanks for that article chip.

Simply the face of Tory MP Douglas Carswell: scathing about the Save the Children appeal, says it all about Tory compassion, or should I say total lack of?

by Mel Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:38 am

"Wealth distribution is the answser, and not wealth creation."

Tory ideology is the opposite Ivanhoe. Wealth creation is the answer for them and certainly NOT wealth distribution.

by Redflag Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:05 am

Mel wrote:"Wealth distribution is the answser, and not wealth creation."

Tory ideology is the opposite Ivanhoe. Wealth creation is the answer for them and certainly NOT wealth distribution.

Its the Tories that keep saying its the wealth creators that will start up businesses to employ people, the only thing that the wealthy are interested in is putting more money in there off shore accounts as the Tories are well aware of.

Something I predicted ages ago looks like is going to happen a "General Strike" it was reported on yesterdays news at the S.T.U.C. the Unions are banding together (which in my view is the right thing to do the old saying "United we stand divided we fall) so it looks like it will be an "Autumn and Winter of Discontent" I'm glad the Unions have woken up to the Ideology of the Tories.

by oftenwrong Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:31 am

The Trade Unions are no longer the alternative government which Thatcher successfully decimated at great cost, and talk of a General Strike is just that - talk. Wishful thinking for the good old days, which were anything but. Withdrawal of labour from an Employer is a fundamental right, but like nuclear weapons it is better talked about than actually deployed. One of the many changes wrought in the TUC since the 1980s is a far greater proportion of female membership. Those are the people who recognise the difficulties involved in running a household without an income.

Democracy is far more than just plopping a cross on a ballot paper once every five years, so a successful coalition of Labour Party and Trade Unions should be more than a match for those wishy-washy Tories.

by Ivanhoe Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:49 am

Mel wrote:"Wealth distribution is the answser, and not wealth creation."

Tory ideology is the opposite Ivanhoe. Wealth creation is the answer for them and certainly NOT wealth distribution.

I am aware of that thanks Mel.

by bobby Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:15 am

Ivanhoe said: Kindly dont call the French, frogs, they stick together.

Unkindly, "No"!.

We call them Frogs whereas they refer to us as Rost Biffs (roast Beefs), Its simply to do with what we eat, nothing else.

And I dont give a shit what you think, Herr Cameron is a bleeding Conservative, you can call him what you like, but what is, "is".

Is he not the leader of the Conservative party, just how do you think that could be if he wasn't himself a Conservative.

Big C or little c, it makes no bloody difference.

by bobby Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:33 pm

By the way Ivanhoe, just what has "Kindly dont call the French, frogs" got to do with "they stick together"

by Ivanhoe Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:41 pm

bobby wrote:Ivanhoe said: Kindly dont call the French, frogs, they stick together.

Unkindly, "No"!.

We call them Frogs whereas they refer to us as Rost Biffs (roast Beefs), Its simply to do with what we eat, nothing else.

And I dont give a shit what you think, Herr Cameron is a bleeding Conservative, you can call him what you like, but what is, "is".

Is he not the leader of the Conservative party, just how do you think that could be if he wasn't himself a Conservative.

Big C or little c, it makes no bloody difference.

When Cameron is refered to as a Conservative, this does a dis-service to the likes of the late Ted Heath and the decent one nation Conservatives before him .

Right wing Torys are a very different beast, nasty, facist. loathers of the State and welfare, and this is what we have had since the 80's and Thatcher.

And I know you dont give a shxt what I think. And because im a gentleman, I wont say why.

by Mel Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:42 pm

"the Unions are banding together"

This is the only way Red (if it actually happens) . Simply the TUC alone declaring to stike for more pay is not enough. We need all unions to unite and show their various reasons for stiking against all the nasty Tory policies that affect the majority. We may then find we have what is required to oust these Tory tyrants, an all out strike and the sooner the better.

by Mel Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:50 pm

"Right wing Torys are a very different beast, nasty, facist. loathers of the State and welfare, and this is what we have had since the 80's and Thatcher."
Agree with most of what you say Ivanhoe except from 1997 until 2010 we had a caring government that did it's best to reverse what was finacially and legally possible to mend Thatchers disgusting policies. We had all the things we no longer have under Cameron with good growth for one thing and a government caring and compassionate for another.

Are you "aware" of that too Ivanhoe?

by KnarkyBadger Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:23 pm

Mel wrote:"the Unions are banding together"

This is the only way Red (if it actually happens) . Simply the TUC alone declaring to stike for more pay is not enough. We need all unions to unite and show their various reasons for stiking against all the nasty Tory policies that affect the majority. We may then find we have what is required to oust these Tory tyrants, an all out strike and the sooner the better.

I doubt a general strike will happen in the short to medium term at least. Mostly because the government will play the unions off against each again, and the union bureaucracy will play along as ever. Very few unions (RMT, NUT, PCS plus maybe one or two smaller unions) have the stomoch at the top, for the mother of all fights that is needed to rid the country of toxic neo-liberal captialism. They'll have their demo on the 20th October and may be a few token one day strikes but that'll be it. The union grass roots need to force their leadership off the fence and make them stop waiting for the ******* labour party they'll not help but will still take their money.

by Ivanhoe Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:45 pm

Mel wrote:"Right wing Torys are a very different beast, nasty, facist. loathers of the State and welfare, and this is what we have had since the 80's and Thatcher."
Agree with most of what you say Ivanhoe except from 1997 until 2010 we had a caring government that did it's best to reverse what was finacially and legally possible to mend Thatchers disgusting policies. We had all the things we no longer have under Cameron with good growth for one thing and a government caring and compassionate for another.

Are you "aware" of that too Ivanhoe?

New Labour under Blair and Brown were Thatcherite in free marketeering.

The local Labour party that I was an activist in, dis-banded when Biair took Labour to the right.

I trust this ansswers your question, Mel.

by oftenwrong Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:25 pm

Readers of this thread will probably be interested in an article by Owen Jones printed in today's Independent.

http://www.independent.co.uk/hei-fi/views/owen-jones-imagine-if-virgin-ran-our-hospitals-8121375.html?origin=internalSearch

by Redflag Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:34 am

oftenwrong wrote:The Trade Unions are no longer the alternative government which Thatcher successfully decimated at great cost, and talk of a General Strike is just that - talk. Wishful thinking for the good old days, which were anything but. Withdrawal of labour from an Employer is a fundamental right, but like nuclear weapons it is better talked about than actually deployed. One of the many changes wrought in the TUC since the 1980s is a far greater proportion of female membership. Those are the people who recognise the difficulties involved in running a household without an income.

Democracy is far more than just plopping a cross on a ballot paper once every five years, so a successful coalition of Labour Party and Trade Unions should be more than a match for those wishy-washy Tories.

It does not have to be a general strike but similar, a week of civil disobedience "BY EVERYONE" until this shower of A**E HOLES get the message we will not be pushed around by a bunch of Dick Heads.

by Mel Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:53 am

I am afraid Red these Tyrants will ignore any messege that does not suit them. They think that they can do as they please with this fixed term of some 2+ yrs to run.

Thanks for the link OW. All very true but how do we remove this ghastly government before 2015 is the question?

by Ivanhoe Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:44 am

Redflag wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:The Trade Unions are no longer the alternative government which Thatcher successfully decimated at great cost, and talk of a General Strike is just that - talk. Wishful thinking for the good old days, which were anything but. Withdrawal of labour from an Employer is a fundamental right, but like nuclear weapons it is better talked about than actually deployed. One of the many changes wrought in the TUC since the 1980s is a far greater proportion of female membership. Those are the people who recognise the difficulties involved in running a household without an income.

Democracy is far more than just plopping a cross on a ballot paper once every five years, so a successful coalition of Labour Party and Trade Unions should be more than a match for those wishy-washy Tories.

It does not have to be a general strike but similar, a week of civil disobedience "BY EVERYONE" until this shower of A**E HOLES get the message we will not be pushed around by a bunch of Dick Heads.

Im afraid that our country no longer has a working class base.

We are primarily all middle class now, and because of this the Unions no longer have the clout they used to.

by blueturando Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:53 pm

In my opinion Strikes are not the answer and a good majority of the general public will not support them.

One of the answers is to find a government with enough balls to make big tax avoiding businesses pay their fair share, not do dodgy deals behind closed doors that allows said business to pay a fraction of what should be owed to the Treasury. Unfortunately this has been going on for some time and I don't believe the Tories or Labour will do anything to change this

by Ivanhoe Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:30 pm

blueturando wrote:In my opinion Strikes are not the answer and a good majority of the general public will not support them.

One of the answers is to find a government with enough balls to make big tax avoiding businesses pay their fair share, not do dodgy deals behind closed doors that allows said business to pay a fraction of what should be owed to the Treasury. Unfortunately this has been going on for some time and I don't believe the Tories or Labour will do anything to change this

Bluey, your first setence sums up perfectly why we British have neither the backbone or the consilidation of the Germans and French ect.

We are friggin useless at standing together against the right wing facists who controll us. And that's a fact.

When you moved to where you are, you wanted out, instead of staying put and helping in what is a class fight. You are a living example of everything wrong with the British.

by bobby Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:10 pm

Ivanhoe wrote: When you moved to where you are, you wanted out, instead of staying put and helping in what is a class fight. You are a living example of everything wrong with the British.

What a nasty thing to say to possibly the most honest (albeit dilusional) poster on Cutting Edge

Aren’t you the geezer who said in a post to me, “I am a gentleman”. What a bleeding hypocrite. As to where Bluey lives and why he lives there is absolutely bugger all to do with you, anyway I think your post was personally insulting to Bluey and that you should beg his forgiveness immediately, or prepare to be treated in the same manner in which you have treated him.

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