How long do you think the coalition will last?

First topic message reminder :

I want people's opinion of how long they think this coalition will last. ?

bobby wrote:Spot on Mel. I would surely like to know why the Tory's got any votes at all at the last G/E ?

Simple, Tory biased media

I can answer your first question bobby they told a whole pack of LIES which the people that voted for them are now finding out to there sorrow but they will pay for it and pay dearly and I for one will stand back and laugh until I pee myself, as for the Yellow Tories they will be wiped off the whole political scene and they will deserve it and the L/Ds that are in the House of Lords better hope that the law for them to be voted into that place does not go through because they would be wiped out of that place and all I can say is "HELL MEND THEM" :bom:

Hello Red

The problem is that whilst we are all beating them with the sticks of their making, or indeed peeing ourselves at the demise of Cleggs load of tossers, The damage would have been done to the Country, most of wich will be irreversible

bobby wrote:Hello Red

The problem is that whilst we are all beating them with the sticks of their making, or indeed peeing ourselves at the demise of Cleggs load of tossers, The damage would have been done to the Country, most of wich will be irreversible

Bobby we will just have to cross our fingers and hope that the worst can be undone, and IF Labour gets in at the next GE we as Labour supporters will have too do our bit, and hope that the Labour party can by law or other means reverse the mayhem and havoc the this shower of A**E H**ES have brought onto this country.

bobby wrote:Hello Red

The problem is that whilst we are all beating them with the sticks of their making, or indeed peeing ourselves at the demise of Cleggs load of tossers, The damage would have been done to the Country, most of wich will be irreversible

It will only be rreversible if the Labour Party continues to be controlled by right-wing careerists, I believe.

This is the problem Penderyn....

Much to the denial of many posters on here, there is very little difference between the current Labour party and the Tories

blueturando wrote:This is the problem Penderyn....

Much to the denial of many posters on here, there is very little difference between the current Labour party and the Tories

If I may interject. There was no difference between the former New Labour Government and Thatcher, because Blair and Brown continued Thatcher's free market policies.

We have to give Ed Milliband a chance to take Labour back to its core roots and values of fairness and equality.

Ed has NOT convinced me that he will even try to turn his ship let alone alter the course set by the last Labour captain.

I wouldn't hold my breath Ivanhoe, he may be more Foot than Blair but I don't think he is strong enough to carry through any principles he may hold. The general public don't buy it either

In my view Thatcher changed the Tory party forever and Blair did the same to Labour

blueturando wrote:In my view Thatcher changed the Tory party forever and Blair did the same to Labour

I agree blue but it looks like Ed Miliband is trying to take it back to its core values.

betty.noire wrote:Things must be bad if that terrible leader Milliband is ahead in the polls

Well it just goes to prove that the people of the UK are finally coming to there senses, and have realized what "BIG DICKS " they voted into power.

blueturando wrote:I wouldn't hold my breath Ivanhoe, he may be more Foot than Blair but I don't think he is strong enough to carry through any principles he may hold. The general public don't buy it either

I was a "traditional" Labour party activist before Tony Blair took Labour to the right. I say give Ed Milliband a chance.

blueturando wrote:In my view Thatcher changed the Tory party forever and Blair did the same to Labour

Thatcher and Blair had one thing in common. Each realised that the Parliamentary process allowed a determined individual to take complete charge for a while. Cameron agrees with them.

Ivanhoe.....I think he could have a long battle on his hands with the Blairites


Supporters of Blair, who are voicing criticism in private, believe Miliband deserves credit for highlighting the importance of tackling Britain's fiscal deficit. But they believe the electorate will not listen to Labour unless Miliband and Ed Balls, the shadow chancellor, are more honest about Labour's high levels of spending between 2005-2010. Blair had a battle with Gordon Brown after the 2005 election over the need to rein in spending.

In a new pamphlet for the Policy Network thinktank founded by Mandelson, and in an article in the Guardian, Diamond echoes some of the concerns voiced by these senior figures. He writes that Labour, which is one of many European social democratic parties to have lost power:

• Will be out of power for a generation unless it develops an "overarching strategy" to promote progressive reform while acting as an "agent of security" for struggling working- and middle-class earners.

• Re-enter the debate about public services "instead of simply leaving this field free for the governing parties". Diamond takes a dig at Andy Burnham, the shadow health secretary who is demanding the dropping of the health and social care billl, by noting that "some members of the shadow cabinet appear to have turned against many of the reforms which they or their colleagues championed when in government".

Tory supporters evidently still happier discussing the Opposition. Curious.

I think it works both ways OW

blueturando wrote:I think it works both ways OW

IMHO blue i think your wrong the reason they are being discussed is the opposition can not believe how nasty the nasty party is being they have stooped to levels we never thought possible they have plunged to depths that is beyond anybodies else's reasoning

The Opposition has no power. All it can do is oppose. Not much to discuss unless and until they become the Government. THEN we shall have plenty to talk about.

oftenwrong wrote:The Opposition has no power. All it can do is oppose. Not much to discuss unless and until they become the Government. THEN we shall have plenty to talk about.

Let us just hope and pray that Ed Milliband comes out of the Labour party closet soon, he has already Stated that many coalition policies cannot be reversed. I for one would like to know which ? and why ?

It is my strongly held belief that the natural politics for a good and decent society are the politics of Social Democracy.

It is a fact that European nations feature prominently in the list of the most successful economies in the world, and by success I do not merely mean how many big companies or corporations there are, or how many billionaires there are, because that is not a true measure.

The true measure of a successful economy is how you generate wealth and how you use that wealth, a successful nation provides decent pensions, healthcare and welfare, and a true social democracy will champion capitalism and business as much as it champions employment rights and human rights.

Eventualy - one day in the future - the Conservative Party will either change beyond recognition or it will diminish in popularity, the evidence is allready there.

Ivanhoe, it's kinda like when Maggie closed our industry and locked the coal underground presumably forever. Whatever, it is assured that it would be a very lengthy and expensive legal process to get the coal our of the ground again. The Railways also, are tied in such protracted legal knots that"nationalising" them again is nigh on impossible. Indeed, the councils along the line, and some unions were looking at joining forces to run the GNR line. It is so tied up, that the present legislation is bullet proof.

It is obvious that Cameron is setting out the new course for the NHS, and it will be irreversible, come hell or high water.

The WHY presumably is a sop to their City Pals who are assured that in 4 years time, things are NOT going to be reversed with a change of government, thereby undoing all their "good" work :affraid: .

Ed Milliband doesn't have to do anything soon, as this Tory led Coalition is doing it all for him.

Ivanhoe, if you look back to the Thatcher privatisations, where our utilities got sold off at bargain basement prices, the shares where very soon purchased by all and sundry, including many overseas investors, just look at how many power supply companies are foreign. How would we re-nationalise them, it just wont or can’t happen. The only way we will ever get a Nationally owned company would be to build one from scratch and to go in direct competition with the privately owned companies, even if that became a possibility, it would be extremely difficult because of the fragmentation of our power infrastructure, who’s gas goes down who’s pipes, and who’s electricity goes down who’s cables. Thatcher knew when she privatised these companies, it would be irreversible, just as it will be when the NHS is privatised, and as sure as eggs is eggs it will be. It will be privatised by stealth and will be done piecemeal, but it will be done, and those Tory shitbags have potentially got a further 3 years to do it in, I mean just look at the damage they have done in just 2 years.

Herr Cameron knows what he is doing will almost certainly be permanent as did the witch Thatcher before him. The only chance we have to save part of our NHS is for the Coalition to fall apart, and I don’t see that happening any time soon. The Lib-Dems talk as though they are opposing the Tories, but in reality, they are far too comfortable thinking they finally have some Power and that they matter.

witchfinder wrote:It is my strongly held belief that the natural politics for a good and decent society are the politics of Social Democracy.

It is a fact that European nations feature prominently in the list of the most successful economies in the world, and by success I do not merely mean how many big companies or corporations there are, or how many billionaires there are, because that is not a true measure.

The true measure of a successful economy is how you generate wealth and how you use that wealth, a successful nation provides decent pensions, healthcare and welfare, and a true social democracy will champion capitalism and business as much as it champions employment rights and human rights.

Eventualy - one day in the future - the Conservative Party will either change beyond recognition or it will diminish in popularity, the evidence is allready there.

Yes, I could not agree more, witchfinder.

That the Tories could win it with a healthy majority ?

Ivanhoe. Your latest thread has been merged with this one because (a) it’s on a similar theme, and (b) it didn’t contain any opening posting of substance. A new thread should start with a thought-provoking and maybe controversial message, possibly supported by quotes from, and a link to, a news article.

There isn’t really a great deal of point asking us to speculate (again) on what might happen in 2015, since nobody knows. Harold Wilson said that a week was a long time in politics, so three years is an eternity. At the beginning of 1982, the Tories were in third place in the polls and Thatcher seemed dead in the water, and then up popped General Galtieri to give her a landslide victory in 1983.

As things stand, I would be very surprised if anyone who didn’t vote Tory in 2010 did so next time, in the light of all Cameron’s lies and broken promises, especially concerning the NHS. But who knows? And really there is little else to be said. It might be more productive to draw attention to stories in the news about the corporate fascism which is rapidly taking over the UK as Cameron strives to reward all those Tory donors. This might be a good place to start:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/mar/12/nhs-health?commentpage=2#start-of-comments

Ivanhoe wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:The Opposition has no power. All it can do is oppose. Not much to discuss unless and until they become the Government. THEN we shall have plenty to talk about.

Let us just hope and pray that Ed Milliband comes out of the Labour party closet soon, he has already Stated that many coalition policies cannot be reversed. I for one would like to know which ? and why ?

Ivanhoe do you remember the Thatcher years? if so you will remember that she sold Gas Electric phone and railway and made an attempt to sell the NHS she never managed that one where as Scam..er..on has, the contracts to the private health sector will be TOO EXPENSIVE to get out of them and by the time 2015 comes round the treasury will be bare due too the Tories handing out contracts to the private sector and they will have made these contracts WATER TIGHT.

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:The Opposition has no power. All it can do is oppose. Not much to discuss unless and until they become the Government. THEN we shall have plenty to talk about.

Let us just hope and pray that Ed Milliband comes out of the Labour party closet soon, he has already Stated that many coalition policies cannot be reversed. I for one would like to know which ? and why ?

Ivanhoe do you remember the Thatcher years? if so you will remember that she sold Gas Electric phone and railway and made an attempt to sell the NHS she never managed that one where as Scam..er..on has, the contracts to the private health sector will be TOO EXPENSIVE to get out of them and by the time 2015 comes round the treasury will be bare due too the Tories handing out contracts to the private sector and they will have made these contracts WATER TIGHT.

Redflag, yes I remember the Thatcher years, it was in the 80's that I joined the Labour party as an activist. I remember the Tory campaign "Tell Sid", not sure whether that was gas, water, or electricity privatisation and sell offs, but the country fell for it, that's my being cynical.

I think the next Government other than Tory hopefully, will do what it wants to do, we can always afford wars and such like, dont you think ?

Ivanhoe wrote:
Redflag, yes I remember the Thatcher years, it was in the 80's that I joined the Labour party as an activist. I remember the Tory campaign "Tell Sid", not sure whether that was gas, water, or electricity privatisation and sell offs, but the country fell for it, that's my being cynical.

That was the British Telecom, I remember it because my father was called Sid, and it drove him mad

betty.noire wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:
Redflag, yes I remember the Thatcher years, it was in the 80's that I joined the Labour party as an activist. I remember the Tory campaign "Tell Sid", not sure whether that was gas, water, or electricity privatisation and sell offs, but the country fell for it, that's my being cynical.

That was the British Telecom, I remember it because my father was called Sid, and it drove him mad

It drove me mad as well, because I knew the Tory's were slowly but surely buying votes.

Ivanhoe wrote:

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:The Opposition has no power. All it can do is oppose. Not much to discuss unless and until they become the Government. THEN we shall have plenty to talk about.

Let us just hope and pray that Ed Milliband comes out of the Labour party closet soon, he has already Stated that many coalition policies cannot be reversed. I for one would like to know which ? and why ?

Ivanhoe do you remember the Thatcher years? if so you will remember that she sold Gas Electric phone and railway and made an attempt to sell the NHS she never managed that one where as Scam..er..on has, the contracts to the private health sector will be TOO EXPENSIVE to get out of them and by the time 2015 comes round the treasury will be bare due too the Tories handing out contracts to the private sector and they will have made these contracts WATER TIGHT.

Redflag, yes I remember the Thatcher years, it was in the 80's that I joined the Labour party as an activist. I remember the Tory campaign "Tell Sid", not sure whether that was gas, water, or electricity privatisation and sell offs, but the country fell for it, that's my being cynical.

I think the next Government other than Tory hopefully, will do what it wants to do, we can always afford wars and such like, dont you think ?

Ivanhoe by the time of the next GE or sooner if the L/D grow a backbone some of the L/Ds know what is going to happen to there councillors and MPs over the next few years by that time there will be no L/D party to go into coalition with, I know Labour has not got everything right but at least they are fair I just hope they have plenty of Lawyers in there ranks so that the Legal way around some of these contract may be found and something may be salvaged from the "MESS THE TORIES WILL LEAVE".

It's not fair expecting my Grandchildren to pay off Browns debts

Betty, I am no lover of ANY political party in this UK, but I think "Brown's Debts" will be an easier mess for our grandkids to clean up than Thatcher's and Cameron's legacies.

When were the debts from World War II paid off?

Isn't it the case that they were not paid off in the life tiem of those who incured them?

I am not saying that the debts should not have been incured and I acknowledge the Moral, Social and Financial debt I owe to those who fought to keep Britian free, but it has always been the case that the younger generations pay the debts of the the previous generations.

Brown was trying to maintains Britian as a society which cares, not like the current Coalition which from the cuts it has/is making affect the ordinary people far more than it affects those with money...

We hear of the bosses of companies/banks/organisations walk away with payoff which ordinary people could only get from winning the lottery but this coalition see no problem with it....

astradt1 wrote:When were the debts from World War II paid off?

Isn't it the case that they were not paid off in the life tiem of those who incured them?

I am not saying that the debts should not have been incured and I acknowledge the Moral, Social and Financial debt I owe to those who fought to keep Britian free, but it has always been the case that the younger generations pay the debts of the the previous generations.

Brown was trying to maintains Britian as a society which cares, not like the current Coalition which from the cuts it has/is making affect the ordinary people far more than it affects those with money...

We hear of the bosses of companies/banks/organisations walk away with payoff which ordinary people could only get from winning the lottery but this coalition see no problem with it....

I cannot believe what I'm reading. The Tories are ideoligically removing the role of the State under the guise of reducing the Deficit, and they are getting away with this care of media backing.

The Tories bleat on about future tax payers having the responsibility of reducing this deficit if the Tories dont do it quickly. This is utter crap, but clearly some people are falling for it.

If the Tories really wanted to reduce the Deficit, there are a number of ways they could do this without making these harmful cuts.

There is nothing wrong with debt, most large companies run on borrowed money. If you run a company and have a couple of million sitting in a bank account, what do you do if you want to expand. Use your own money or borrow. The answer is you borrow. If you use your own money, after the proposed expansion, you may make more profit, which in itself is all very good, but your bank account is empty.
If you borrow the cash and invest in your expansion, you end up with the profits from your expansion which in turn pays for the loan, and puts some in the bank. You end up with profit and expansion that in effect was self financing, and still have your initial 2 mill in the bank. Why should a countries finances be any different, the only time its bad to borrow is if you can not make the repayments, and that is the problem this ineffective Government are now facing. They have borrowed, but have not created the growth needed to pay for the borrowing, meaning they have to either borrow some more of indulge in a bit of quantative easing. It is a method of debt control that can not work irrespective of how much rhetoric and lies you give to the nation.

QUOTE: "That was the British Telecom, I remember it because my father was called Sid, and it drove him mad."

Hard to see why he had to be so sensitive. "Hissing Sid" was the motif chosen to sell shares in British Gas.

During the reign of Thatcher, public property was sold to private individuals. In normal circumstances, selling something that belongs to someone else can result in a prison term. How did the Tories get away with that in the 1980s, and what makes them think they can continue to sell our property now?

oftenwrong wrote:QUOTE: "That was the British Telecom, I remember it because my father was called Sid, and it drove him mad."

Hard to see why he had to be so sensitive. "Hissing Sid" was the motif chosen to sell shares in British Gas.

During the reign of Thatcher, public property was sold to private individuals. In normal circumstances, selling something that belongs to someone else can result in a prison term. How did the Tories get away with that in the 1980s, and what makes them think they can continue to sell our property now?

I remember the sell off of our gas and electric phone and train Maureen Lipman was the face for selling off the phone her grandson got an OLOGY.

When were the debts from World War II paid off?

2008 I think it was. There should have been shouting from the ramparts, marching down the Mall. nothing zilch nanda!

What REALLY gets to me about the lease lend payback, is that Japan and Germany had their pre war debts scrapped and were not charged reparations. NEITHER OF THEM!

Good old UK had to rebuild and retool all by herself - no help here, Still using machinery in 1972 that was dated "Made in Halifax 1898"!! Only condemnation for being a 'post war imperial power' and for Cameron to take this Cpar about special relationship now is totally ignoring the past!

What REALLY gets to me about the lease lend payback, is that Japan and Germany had their pre war debts scrapped and were not charged reparations. NEITHER OF THEM!


Revenge is sweet, but sometimes practical considerations intervene.

It was popular German resentment of the exacting Reparations demanded by the Peace Treaty of 1919 that allowed the rise of Hitler.

And Japan since 1945 has been a copy of the USA. How much more revenge would you exact?

betty.noire wrote:It's not fair expecting my Grandchildren to pay off Browns debts

I have Grandchildren 5 in fact, they will not be paying off Gordon Brown's debt they will be paying off the RUDDY BANKERS DEBT, its about time you Tory voters told the TRUTH or is that a dirty word in your book just remember Gordon had to BORROW £45 BILLION to bail out RBS and a little less for HBOS also Northern Rock and Bradford & Bingley so if you want too come on here and spout about the DEFICIT tell the truth THE WHOLE TRUTH.

If it had been up too me I would have let them all go down the PLUG HOLE after all they wanted a night at the CASINO let them do what the rest of us have to do pay for it Themselves at the moment its the poor and vulnerable that are paying for it with pay freezes cuts and the final slap in the face is loosing there job, and that in my book is not FAIR but then again the Tories have never been fair either this Gov't or Thatchers Gov't.

betty.noire wrote:
He is someone I just don’t warm to, he just seems to come over as a bit if a wimp, I would prefer to see someone with a bit of dirt under their fingernails

Across the political spectrum we are ill served by our current crop of politicians, I suppose it's just indicative of broader problems with our society

And what about Scam..er..on and Gideon they do not have any dirt under there nails and there hands are as soft as a babies bottom showing that they have never done a hard days work in there life and more than likely never will, so before you start damning Ed Miliband take a good hard look at the shower of sycophants that are supposed to be running the UK.