Tony Blair: a great Labour man and PM

by sickchip Tue May 29, 2012 7:33 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2011/9/5/1315228091579/blair-murdoch-007.jpg

The former prime minister was reportedly present in March last year when Murdoch’s two daughters by his third wife were baptised on the banks of the Jordan.

The information was not made public and its disclosure in an interview with Mrs Murdoch in Vogue will prove highly embarrassing for Mr Blair.

His close ties to the Murdochs could explain his reluctance to condemn the News International phone hacking scandal.

In July, it was reported that he asked Gordon Brown to put pressure on Tom Watson, the Labour MP who helped expose the scandal, to drop his investigation.

No mention was made of Mr Blair’s role as a godfather to Grace and he did not appear in pictures of the ceremony, which took place at the spot where it is said that Jesus was baptised.

However, the facts emerged in an interview with Mrs Murdoch in the fashion magazine.

What a great guy! And one of Britain's best PM's ever........and a staunch Labour man at that!

by Adele Carlyon Wed May 30, 2012 6:56 pm

RockOnBrother wrote:
tlttf wrote:Re: Tony Blair: A great Labour man and Prime Minister
by tlttf on Wed 30 May 2012 - 10:17

Oh dear Herr Ivan…

Your use of the italicized text is, in my view, tiresome.

It's juvenile and stupid, but there you go. It says lots more about him than Ivan. Wink

But hey, he's here to terminate us all! haha

by oftenwrong Wed May 30, 2012 7:26 pm

Who remembers that Patrick McGoohan film for TV called "The Prisoner"?

The newcomer is constantly railing against The Leader until it becomes apparent that he is himself in fact NUMBER ONE.

We become the thing which we oppose. Spooky, eh?

by tlttf Wed May 30, 2012 7:42 pm

Rock and Adele, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume (dangerous) that your talking about using the title Herr and not the italics (not mine). I've used the title twice since joining the forum, so in all honesty for you to find it tiresome or even juvenile is kind of strange in itself. Still whatever rocks your boat, have a nice evening.

by oftenwrong Wed May 30, 2012 7:50 pm

Tony Blair: A great Labour man and Prime Minister

.... and the greatest Con-artist since P T Barnum.

"There's one born every minute!"

by Adele Carlyon Wed May 30, 2012 7:55 pm

I just can't understand why you think it's ok to refer to anyone as Herr. I don't really give a stuff about the use of italics. I bet you got put in the naughty corner a lot at school eh? Laughing

by astra Wed May 30, 2012 7:56 pm

Thank you OW,

Thank You.

by astra Wed May 30, 2012 7:58 pm

Angela Merkel's hubby (iffin she HAS one) will be addressed as Herr Merkel. German for MR. is it not?

It is using the languages of Continental Europe in one's strive to be 'Cosmipolitan' don'tchi know!

by ROB Wed May 30, 2012 7:59 pm

tlttf wrote:
Rock… I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume (dangerous) that your talking about using the title Herr and not the italics (not mine). I've used the title twice since joining the forum, so in all honesty for you to find it tiresome… is kind of strange in itself.

Nonetheless, the italicized text in the post authored by you, reproduced below (italics mine)…

tlttf wrote:Re: Tony Blair: A great Labour man and Prime Minister
by tlttf on Wed 30 May 2012 - 10:17

Oh dear Herr Ivan…

… is, in my view, tiresome. In my county, of course, your Creator-endowed, unalienable right to express such tiresome terminology via speech and text is guaranteed by Amendment 1 of the United States Constitution.

by sickchip Wed May 30, 2012 8:20 pm

Can we return to the topic of Herr Blair, please? Smile

by ROB Wed May 30, 2012 8:32 pm

sickchip wrote:Re: Tony Blair: A great Labour man and Prime Minister
by sickchip on Wed 30 May 2012 - 20:20

Can we return to the topic of Herr Blair, please?

As I am unaware of any German, Austrian, or Swiss male of international importance with that last name, and thus have no iron in that fire/“topic”, it maters not to me.

by **Phil Hornby** Wed May 30, 2012 8:38 pm

Dreadful diseases often need unpalatable medicine.

Few diseases are worse than a Tory Government and Tony Blair was that required prescription...

by Red Cat Woman Wed May 30, 2012 8:47 pm

i Think I will give this debate a miss myself as I quite like Tony Blair myself. or lets put it this way. I would rather have him as UK PM than Cameron any day of the week Tony Blair: a great Labour man and PM - Page 2 Images47

Tony Blair: a great Labour man and PM - Page 2 Images47

by Red Cat Woman Wed May 30, 2012 8:52 pm

Adele Carlyon wrote:
RockOnBrother wrote:
tlttf wrote:Re: Tony Blair: A great Labour man and Prime Minister
by tlttf on Wed 30 May 2012 - 10:17

Oh dear Herr Ivan…

Your use of the italicized text is, in my view, tiresome.

It's juvenile and stupid, but there you go. It says lots more about him than Ivan. But hey, he's here to terminate us all! haha

i think any idea of terminate either of us Huni would be a total waste of time in my view. ha ha ha

by sickchip Wed May 30, 2012 9:14 pm

Tony Blair clearly does not support Ed Miliband, or Ed Balls, and appears to be closer to conservative thinking than current labour thinking........at the very least he fits the tag 'tory lite'.

I wonder if the ardent Labour supporters here would prefer Blair over Miliband as party leader? Would they welcome his return and his brand of politics? I only ask since Tony appears to have a lot of admirers here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/7975231/Tony-Blair-backs-coalition-over-economy.html

by sickchip Wed May 30, 2012 9:35 pm

Red Cat Woman: There you go - two arrogant posh boys! We're all in it together!

Tony Blair: a great Labour man and PM - Page 2 Cameron-blair_1706402c

by Blamhappy Wed May 30, 2012 9:50 pm

sickchip wrote:
I wonder if the ardent Labour supporters here would prefer Blair over Miliband as party leader? Would they welcome his return and his brand of politics? I only ask since Tony appears to have a lot of admirers here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/7975231/Tony-Blair-backs-coalition-over-economy.html

I would happily see the return of Tony Blair. I think I'm in the minority amongst most Labour supporters.

I feel this way more because of his ability to govern than for his actual politics. I think he does have a set of values, but that they lean more to the right than those of true socialists. I believe that he is far more compassionate than the Conservatives.

I just felt, under Blair, that I was "safe". I felt like there was an adult in charge. With Cameron, it never feels like he knows what he is doing. I think Ed Miliband shows the strength of character that Blair had, and I'm even starting to see him as a leader now.

by Mel Wed May 30, 2012 10:14 pm

Blair's contribution towards assisting the Northern Ireland Peace Process by helping to negotiate the Good Friday Agreement (after 30 years of conflict) was widely recognised.

In addition he brought about devolution for Scoland & Wales. Freedom of Information Act Human Rights Act. Independent Bank of England Civil partnerships. Progress in reducing Child Poverty Huge investment in education Huge investment in NHS (+25% increase in real terms) Longest period of uninterrupted growth in UK history Lowest unemployment for 50 years Lowest inflation in decades Lowest debt in decades (in 2007 debt was 2nd lowest in G8) and was still the lowest in 2010 under Brown.

For those lovely people of the North East he produced much employment albeit Public Sector employment which of course is now being hit hard by this bunch of toffs. He has publicly stated that he "would have liked to have done more for the North East"

His downfall if there ever really was one was the Iraq war. I do not wish to dwell upon that particular subject here except to say just this.
First and foremost Intelligence initially claimed that WOMD existed ( of course they actually had previously, therefore why not then?)
I have had the view of a friend of mine who had spent some years in Iraq serving in the RAF. He is certain that the WOMD existed and were moved across the border to Syria where the investigators were not allowed to venture. Now that we see the Syrian government for what it is, it would not surprise me if they were assisting Iraq. Only time will tell.

Yes he's made lots of money. Most Prime Ministers and Ministers in general all make money one way or another. It's known as "good business" by most Tories.
Finally, yes he did move the Labour Party to the centre of politics. The rich got richer and so did the poor ( as stated before) hence the divide did not change.

Should be Knighted IMO.

by Red Cat Woman Wed May 30, 2012 10:15 pm

sickchip wrote:Tony Blair clearly does not support Ed Miliband, or Ed Balls, and appears to be closer to conservative thinking than current labour thinking........at the very least he fits the tag 'tory lite'.

I wonder if the ardent Labour supporters here would prefer Blair over Miliband as party leader? Would they welcome his return and his brand of politics? I only ask since Tony appears to have a lot of admirers here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/7975231/Tony-Blair-backs-coalition-over-economy.html

No Tony Blair is the past. I do not believe in reliving other peoples views of him. as its a bit like wine drinking, you either enjoy one bottle or the other but once drunk that is the end of the bottle. Ed Miliband is now the Leader of the Labour party not anyone else. if I am looking at it form a historical view point as that is what it is now. I was very pleased that I was a school in his time in office. as it was his government they built a brand new school in my area after years of Tories spending loads of money on school maintenance that left us with a bucket in the middle of our class room to catch the rain. so you can hate him all you like Sickchip. but I do not.

Tony Blair: a great Labour man and PM - Page 2 3411

Tony Blair: a great Labour man and PM - Page 2 3411

by sickchip Wed May 30, 2012 10:16 pm

Blam,

I believe that he is far more compassionate than the Conservatives.

I don't believe he is. He is simply more adept at flattering to deceive. IMO he's a dangerous sociopath

..as oftenwrong pointed out:

The thing about Tony Blair was that after lifting your wallet he could make you feel grateful for the experience.

by Red Cat Woman Wed May 30, 2012 10:20 pm

sickchip wrote:Red Cat Woman: There you go - two arrogant posh boys! We're all in it together!

maybe so. but one will lead us in to economic ruin and the other never did.

Tony Blair: a great Labour man and PM - Page 2 Images50

by Red Cat Woman Wed May 30, 2012 10:23 pm

sickchip wrote:Blam,

I believe that he is far more compassionate than the Conservatives.

I don't believe he is. He is simply more adept at flattering to deceive. IMO he's a dangerous sociopath

..as oftenwrong pointed out:

The thing about Tony Blair was that after lifting your wallet he could make you feel grateful for the experience.

you have every right to your view of History and so do I.... its that simple Sickchip

by **Phil Hornby** Wed May 30, 2012 10:24 pm

Blair wasn't perfect. But he was a lot less imperfect than what else was available at the time - and, indeed, much of what is inflicted upon us now...

by Blamhappy Wed May 30, 2012 10:27 pm

sickchip wrote:Blam,

I believe that he is far more compassionate than the Conservatives.
I don't believe he is. He is simply more adept at flattering to deceive. IMO he's a dangerous sociopath
..as oftenwrong pointed out:
The thing about Tony Blair was that after lifting your wallet he could make you feel grateful for the experience.

Interesting! A friend of mine, whose opinions I value a great deal, said something similar.

Perhaps I'm showing naivety.

by sickchip Wed May 30, 2012 10:28 pm

Red Cat,

I was very pleased that I was a school in his time in office.

Despite the fact that he started the escalation of university fees which was not exactly conducive to encouraging the lower classes to better themselves. Blair talks a lot about aspiration.....but during his tenure sure as hell stifled social mobility.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7928436.stm

by Red Cat Woman Wed May 30, 2012 10:33 pm

Mel wrote:Blair's contribution towards assisting the Northern Ireland Peace Process by helping to negotiate the Good Friday Agreement (after 30 years of conflict) was widely recognised.

In addition he brought about devolution for Scoland & Wales. Freedom of Information Act Human Rights Act. Independent Bank of England Civil partnerships. Progress in reducing Child Poverty Huge investment in education Huge investment in NHS (+25% increase in real terms) Longest period of uninterrupted growth in UK history Lowest unemployment for 50 years Lowest inflation in decades Lowest debt in decades (in 2007 debt was 2nd lowest in G8) and was still the lowest in 2010 under Brown.

For those lovely people of the North East he produced much employment albeit Public Sector employment which of course is now being hit hard by this bunch of toffs. He has publicly stated that he "would have liked to have done more for the North East"

His downfall if there ever really was one was the Iraq war. I do not wish to dwell upon that particular subject here except to say just this.
First and foremost Intelligence initially claimed that WOMD existed ( of course they actually had previously, therefore why not then?)
I have had the view of a friend of mine who had spent some years in Iraq serving in the RAF. He is certain that the WOMD existed and were moved across the border to Syria where the investigators were not allowed to venture. Now that we see the Syrian government for what it is, it would not surprise me if they were assisting Iraq. Only time will tell.

Yes he's made lots of money. Most Prime Ministers and Ministers in general all make money one way or another. It's known as "good business" by most Tories.
Finally, yes he did move the Labour Party to the centre of politics. The rich got richer and so did the poor ( as stated before) hence the divide did not change.

Should be Knighted IMO.

Hello Mel
can i just say, I agree with 90% of your post. but can I just add. I could not really care about the Iraq war. as what really mattered to me was Tony Blair built us a new School in our area. that to me meant a great deal more to me than the Iraq war. as it did to millions of children today as they have a brand new school or hospital thanks to him. as if it was down to the Tory party we would still have that old school with rain coming into the middle of the class room. its this that matters most to real people in my view

by Red Cat Woman Wed May 30, 2012 10:38 pm

sickchip wrote:Red Cat,

I was very pleased that I was a school in his time in office.

Despite the fact that he started the escalation of university fees which was not exactly conducive to encouraging the lower classes to better themselves. Blair talks a lot about aspiration.....but during his tenure sure as hell stifled social mobility.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7928436.stm

I never said that he was perfect at all. but he built things that mattered to the majority of people. not some rich group of people. but its funny. five girls from my school made it to university in my year or lets say one year. in the 18 years before my year only two made it?

by sickchip Wed May 30, 2012 10:49 pm

I just hope Blair holds no influence over Ed Miliband's labour party - or they will be forever compromised, and incapable of/reluctant to reverse tory policies.

Ed needs to round on any lingering Blairites and minimise their influence.

by Red Cat Woman Wed May 30, 2012 10:52 pm

Blamhappy wrote:
sickchip wrote:Blam,

I believe that he is far more compassionate than the Conservatives.
I don't believe he is. He is simply more adept at flattering to deceive. IMO he's a dangerous sociopath
..as oftenwrong pointed out:
The thing about Tony Blair was that after lifting your wallet he could make you feel grateful for the experience.

Interesting! A friend of mine, whose opinions I value a great deal, said something similar.

Perhaps I'm showing naivety.

Hello Blamhappy
lets put it this way. are the news hospitals and school flattering to deceive? are they not built and standing today no matter what people say about him? as did the Tory party build many new schools or Hospitals? I think not? as they had 18 years to do this if they had wished too. but did they? a very few is the truth of it. so would this of happened under anyone else? i think not. yes he got things wrong and who does not do that? but are we really saying that any of this would of happened under a Tory government? well I for one think not. so many UK children today have a new school without a bucket in the middle of there class room. so if this makes Blair the devil then I am with him all the way.

by Red Cat Woman Wed May 30, 2012 11:04 pm

sickchip wrote:I just hope Blair holds no influence over Ed Miliband's labour party - or they will be forever compromised, and incapable of/reluctant to reverse tory policies.

Ed needs to round on any lingering Blairites and minimise their influence.

Sickchip. I believe Ed Miliband is his own man. I believe he has already said so. Blair is just like yesterday's news now its only the right wing whole hang on to the past. something us on the Left should never do. All history is interesting but that is where it ends. its the left that are progressive while the Right hang on to the past. to advance we have to move away from Blair and never let ourselves end up like the right hanging on to Maggot and her dreams. as they have not moved on from the 1980s and are today trying to relive this time with an economic policy that has its whole roots in the 1980s. I could be wrong but I believe Ed believes in the progressive thinking of the left not what Blair did. as if he did then he too will fail just like Cameron. as times have moved on.

by sickchip Wed May 30, 2012 11:11 pm

Red Cat

I believe Ed believes in the progressive thinking of the left not what Blair did.

I hope you're right there, Red.

I guess we can be thankful Ed was elected leader rather than, heaven forbid, his brother David.

by Adele Carlyon Wed May 30, 2012 11:32 pm

I agree about Ed too, and I was very glad that he got elected and not his brother. I hope he does his own thing and doesn't take advice from Blair. He' seems genuinely caring and not impressed with the trappings of office, blair always struck me as grasping in that respect. He did some good things, but the iraq war turned my stomach, and all at the whim of GW Bush too...sheesh

If the tories were a stick of rock, it'd have nasty written all the way through it. To empulate their policies like Blair sometimes did left a nasty taste in my mouth. I'm glad we've got Ed for this next chapter.

by oftenwrong Wed May 30, 2012 11:57 pm

Ummm. Just a thought. (I shall get into trouble for this). Speak as you find, and undoubtedly many people had their lives improved during the tenure of Teflon Tony, but the support on this thread, which is admittedly not sufficient numbers to provide a statistically valid datum, seems to come from the distaff side.

Do you find Tone at all fanciable, Ladies?

by Red Cat Woman Thu May 31, 2012 12:08 am

oftenwrong wrote:Ummm. Just a thought. (I shall get into trouble for this). Speak as you find, and undoubtedly many people had their lives improved during the tenure of Teflon Tony, but the support on this thread, which is admittedly not sufficient numbers to provide a statistically valid datum, seems to come from the distaff side.

Do you find Tone at all fanciable, Ladies?

answer No

by Adele Carlyon Thu May 31, 2012 12:09 am

Erm, nope. Ew lol

by Red Cat Woman Thu May 31, 2012 12:31 am

Adele Carlyon wrote:I agree about Ed too, and I was very glad that he got elected and not his brother. I hope he does his own thing and doesn't take advice from Blair. He' seems genuinely caring and not impressed with the trappings of office, blair always struck me as grasping in that respect. He did some good things, but the iraq war turned my stomach, and all at the whim of GW Bush too...sheesh

If the tories were a stick of rock, it'd have nasty written all the way through it. To empulate their policies like Blair sometimes did left a nasty taste in my mouth. I'm glad we've got Ed for this next chapter.

I could not agree more Hunni. Ed is the new chapter and its time for the Labour party to start this new chapter with him as our leader. as we will not win anything looking back to Blair. Its best left to the Tory right to do this for us Hun. I am not very interested in yesterdays old news and Blair is just that. if we are to win the next GE then we have to show our progressive side not some historical bygone days. as this is the roll of the Tory right and not us at all. in fact the more they try to turn us back to the bygone days of Blair the more desperate that sound to me. as it shows the drinking in the last chance saloon with no where to turn too. it always gives me great satisfaction that they turn to Blair as he will not be standing at the next GE and therefor its a pointless attack on us. as it will cut no ice with the public come polling day. but there economy and what's left of it will matter a great deal more than some historical look back at Tony Blair. so I hope the right wing post millions of replies about Tony Blair as not one of them will matter one little jot in the end

Tony Blair: a great Labour man and PM - Page 2 Images52

Tony Blair: a great Labour man and PM - Page 2 Images52

by **Ivan** Thu May 31, 2012 1:08 am

sickchip wrote:-
Blair talks a lot about aspiration.....but during his tenure sure as hell stifled social mobility.

I'm no great fan of Blair, but he drastically increased the number of people going to university, and that, along with the Education Maintenance Allowance, gave more youngsters the chance to get some qualifications - the best way to achieve increased social mobility.

by blueturando Thu May 31, 2012 1:22 am

Hello Mel
can i just say, I agree with 90% of your post. but can I just add. I could not really care about the Iraq war. as what really mattered to me was Tony Blair built us a new School in our area. that to me meant a great deal more to me than the Iraq war

Red Cat.....I am sure the many thousands of dead people and their grieving families will be delighted you had a new school built. Good to see your principles are intact

by blueturando Thu May 31, 2012 1:25 am

so I hope the right wing post millions of replies about Tony Blair as not one of them will matter one little jot in the end

I guess that's like the endless posts about Thatcher......Doesn't matter a jot

by sickchip Thu May 31, 2012 1:45 am

Ivan wrote:
sickchip wrote:-
Blair talks a lot about aspiration.....but during his tenure sure as hell stifled social mobility.
I'm no great fan of Blair, but he drastically increased the number of people going to university, and that, along with the Education Maintenance Allowance, gave more youngsters the chance to get some qualifications - the best way to achieve increased social mobility.

The proof is in the pudding!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/30/living-at-home-stories

by Mel Thu May 31, 2012 7:54 am

Hello Red Cat,

I agree the Iraq war should be a seperate issue. Notice how the anti Blair
chums dismiss my post on Blair's achievements?

by sickchip Thu May 31, 2012 8:19 am

Notice how the anti Blair
chums dismiss my post on Blair's achievements?

I hope you're not referring to me, Mel. I answered your post regarding what you regard as 'Blair's achievements'. I answered in broad terms because, as I pointed out, it would take too much space/time to debate all 50 points listed.

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