Is there any alternative to the jaundiced Tory attitudes?

First topic message reminder :

Depressing, isn't it? All the miserable gits can come up with is oppression of the poor and fear of the disadvantaged. Never mind, here's something that can make us all feel better about the human race - even if it does have to include Cameron and Company .........

http://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/pictures-that-will-restore-your-faith-in-humanity

Worry not bobby, Ivanhoe lives in a time warp, he's a labour supporter, just not this labour party and his thoughts are stuck firmly in the 60's.

bobby wrote:Yep your dead right there Landy.

I think that I tend to agree with you bobby.

Ivanhoe wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:I don't doubt that any rebate negotiated from Brussels will appear as a credit on the Government side of the ledger, to be boasted about ad nauseam during any election campaign, but of which precisely nothing will be returned to the taxpayer.

The Eurozone doesn't think we are really in their club anyway, so may be resistant to negotiation.

oftenwrong. Brussells dont run Britain. Our MEP's in the council of ministers dictate what happens in Britain....

I'm not entirely sure that is an accurate statement, Commissioners are the people who decide what becomes European Law, not the MEPs. But as always, I am open to correction.

tlttf wrote:Worry not bobby, Ivanhoe lives in a time warp, he's a labour supporter, just not this labour party and his thoughts are stuck firmly in the 60's.

We had a better, fairer country then. I know I was there.

"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."
L.P. Hartley novel, "The Go-Between,"

oftenwrong wrote:"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."
L.P. Hartley novel, "The Go-Between,"

Britain was still a fairer country.

Britain was still a fairer country

Yes Ivanhoe we did have a fairer Country, we also had manufacturing that on the whole paid for that fairness, unfortunitely, that has now gone, and will as far as I can see never return, so we have to deal with what is and not what was.

bobby wrote:Britain was still a fairer country

Yes Ivanhoe we did have a fairer Country, we also had manufacturing that on the whole paid for that fairness, unfortunitely, that has now gone, and will as far as I can see never return, so we have to deal with what is and not what was.

bobby, the reality is that "we British dont deal with anything". We just let it all happen.

bobby, the reality is that "we British dont deal with anything". We just let it all happen.

In reality, just what can we do. We can not retrieve our lost manufacturing industries once gone, purely and simply because we can not compete with Countries like China, India or Brazil. Had we have kept much of our manufacturing and relied on quality goods at a fair price, we wouldn’t now be in the position we find ourselves in, relying on invisible earnings. This is nothing to do with what the British working man has or has not done, but all to do with Tory Ideology and a bitch in the 89’s/ 90’s and a total arrogant greedy out of touch bastard we have now.

How is the British worker going to compete fairly with people from other countries who will work for next to nothing, let alone be able to afford non means tested benefits. We weren’t sold down the swanny by the average Brit, but by a totally unscrupulous Government.

bobby wrote:bobby, the reality is that "we British dont deal with anything". We just let it all happen.

In reality, just what can we do. We can not retrieve our lost manufacturing industries once gone, purely and simply because we can not compete with Countries like China, India or Brazil. Had we have kept much of our manufacturing and relied on quality goods at a fair price, we wouldn’t now be in the position we find ourselves in, relying on invisible earnings. This is nothing to do with what the British working man has or has not done, but all to do with Tory Ideology and a bitch in the 89’s/ 90’s and a total arrogant greedy out of touch bastard we have now.

How is the British worker going to compete fairly with people from other countries who will work for next to nothing, let alone be able to afford non means tested benefits. We weren’t sold down the swanny by the average Brit, but by a totally unscrupulous Government.

What im saying bobby is that the British are largely apathetic when it comes to politics. And this has given us over 30 years of right wing ideology in this country.

Ivanhoe have you any ideas that would shake the British people out of there apathy towards politics, maybe the right wing ideology of the present gov't may be that wake-up call ?

Redflag wrote:Ivanhoe have you any ideas that would shake the British people out of there apathy towards politics, maybe the right wing ideology of the present gov't may be that wake-up call ?

Redflag, Now this is an interesting question. And I dont think there is an answer. We have an entrenched class system. We have popular tabloids that lurch to the right. We have in my view a right wing media bias.

Top all this off with grossly underfunded State schools, caused by low income tax trickle down economics as funding into all our vital services since Thatcher.

I believe our country is finished.

Sorry if this is in the wrong place but- - - -

I picked this up on my meanderings through the internet and thought it quite intresting.

"The Scottish Greens are expecting a membership boost from SNP supporters dissatisfied by the reversal of the party's anti-Nato policy
The SNP adopted a new stance that an independent Scotland should -"


http://www.selkirkweekendadvertiser.co.uk/news/scottish-headlines/snp-supporters-could-join-greens-1-2611734


sometimes the "small" regional papers come up with the stuff that the big boys do not want to tell us - very informative of them!

Ivanhoe wrote:

I believe our country is finished.

Will the last one to leave please switch off the light. Thank you.

oftenwrong wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

I believe our country is finished.

Will the last one to leave please switch off the light. Thank you.

There is many a true word, spoken in jest.

Ivanhoe wrote:

Redflag wrote:Ivanhoe have you any ideas that would shake the British people out of there apathy towards politics, maybe the right wing ideology of the present gov't may be that wake-up call ?

Redflag, Now this is an interesting question. And I dont think there is an answer. We have an entrenched class system. We have popular tabloids that lurch to the right. We have in my view a right wing media bias.

Top all this off with grossly underfunded State schools, caused by low income tax trickle down economics as funding into all our vital services since Thatcher.

I believe our country is finished.

I am supprised at you Ivanhoe the spirit of the Poll tax riots where is that today? maybe when the housing benefit cuts along with the bedroom tax and the farce of child benefit cuts come into effect in 2013 maybe then the great British resolve will rear its ugly head.

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

Redflag wrote:Ivanhoe have you any ideas that would shake the British people out of there apathy towards politics, maybe the right wing ideology of the present gov't may be that wake-up call ?

Redflag, Now this is an interesting question. And I dont think there is an answer. We have an entrenched class system. We have popular tabloids that lurch to the right. We have in my view a right wing media bias.

Top all this off with grossly underfunded State schools, caused by low income tax trickle down economics as funding into all our vital services since Thatcher.

I believe our country is finished.

I am supprised at you Ivanhoe the spirit of the Poll tax riots where is that today? maybe when the housing benefit cuts along with the bedroom tax and the farce of child benefit cuts come into effect in 2013 maybe then the great British resolve will rear its ugly head.

Redflag, If you think about it, no offence intended, the poll tax effected to many people. There was widespread revulsion against it, and it helped bring Thatcher down.

I'm refering to the Tory right wing in general, for example I was shocked that Cameron's Tory's got any votes at all at the last G/E, due to the Tory years of 1979 to 1997.

The British do have short memories, with little or no politically savvy at all.

Not reaaly Ivanhoe, all they had to remember was the lying cheating b*stards Blair and Brown, who have moved over to allow Balls and Milly to earn a few quid at the Brits expense.

Once you accept they're all cheating lying b*stards life becomes much easier.

tlttf wrote:Not reaaly Ivanhoe, all they had to remember was the lying cheating b*stards Blair and Brown, who have moved over to allow Balls and Milly to earn a few quid at the Brits expense.

Once you accept they're all cheating lying b*stards life becomes much easier.

""Not reaaly Ivanhoe""

Yes, "really" tlttf.

Simply put, somebody that disagrees with your dated outlook that sees things through rose tinted glasses stuck in the 60's, does not mean they are politically naive, they simply have other things more pressing to worry over.

tlttf wrote:Simply put, somebody that disagrees with your dated outlook that sees things through rose tinted glasses stuck in the 60's, does not mean they are politically naive, they simply have other things more pressing to worry over.

Until they are hit by the Tory agenda themselves of course.

As stated, the 60's and early 70's were fairer.

First Love Never Lies...


(hellomagazine.com)

" Samantha, would you still love me if I became a hypocrite and found it impossible to tell the truth...?"

" Of course I do, David..."

tlttf wrote:Not reaaly Ivanhoe, all they had to remember was the lying cheating b*stards Blair and Brown, who have moved over to allow Balls and Milly to earn a few quid at the Brits expense.

Once you accept they're all cheating lying b*stards life becomes much easier.

What about todays shower of "LYING CHEATING BACKSTUDS" here is one from just before the 2010 G.E. "The NHS is safe in my HANDS so why did he hand over 49% of the England and Wales NHS to the private sector thank God I live in Scotland Scam..er..on did not get his hands on OUR NHS. So what you are suggesting is we just sit back and let the HALF WITS get away with anything they want tittf.

Red, today's copy of The Independent suggests that private medicine is very grateful for NHS-referred business in these hard times. Which also shortens NHS waiting-lists.

(I'll save the Mods a task by reproducing this on the NHS thread.)

astra wrote:Sorry if this is in the wrong place but- - - -

I picked this up on my meanderings through the internet and thought it quite intresting.

"The Scottish Greens are expecting a membership boost from SNP supporters dissatisfied by the reversal of the party's anti-Nato policy
The SNP adopted a new stance that an independent Scotland should -"


http://www.selkirkweekendadvertiser.co.uk/news/scottish-headlines/snp-supporters-could-join-greens-1-2611734


sometimes the "small" regional papers come up with the stuff that the big boys do not want to tell us - very informative of them!

The same greens have signed Salmonds pledge for an Independent Scotland astra, talk about stabbing one another in the back trying to pinch the SNP voters does this behaviour know no boundaries.

Does this count as an alternative?


Labour MP Margaret Moran ‘took £53,000 in false expense claims’

Moran 'had £53,000 in false claims'


08 November 2012

Labour MP Margaret Moran cheated the taxpayer out of more than £53,000 on her Parliamentary expenses, a court heard today.

The Luton South MP allegedly falsely claimed for repairs and upkeep of her homes including £22,000 for dry rot and £14,800 for a replacement boiler, central heating and a conservatory.

She “flipped” her designated main and second homes between properties in her Luton constituency, a Westminster flat and another house in Southampton, the court heard.

However, since the Commons expenses scandal broke, Moran’s health has deteriorated.

In April, Mr Justice Saunders ruled that she was unfit to stand trial. A jury at Southwark crown court was sworn in today not to decide whether she is guilty or not but whether “she did the alleged acts complained of”.

In all she faces 15 charges of false accounting and six counts of using a false instrument by submitting phoney invoices. Moran, 57, was not in court.

Yep another alternative!

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/labour-mp-margaret-moran-took-53000-in-false-expense-claims-8297677.html

Clearly she should be punished - not sure what your point is ---

I think TLTTF is pointing out the hypocracy in British politics today. It's all well and good certain posters harping on and on about the mistakes of the coalition (Tories) and in a majority of cases I agree with them...But! the same posters will 'choose' to completely ignore the same mistakes made by the previous Labour government and this is where their arguments lose all credibility...and people wonder why there is so much apathy to politics in this country.

Lets take the NHS. I agree the coalition (Tories) will make a huge cock up of it, they always do...but the last Labour government brought in PFI and started to bring the private sector into the NHS more and more over its time in government

Lets take manufacturing....Does anyone seriously believe that a Labour government would increase the manufacturing base in this country when we simply cannot compete with counties like China and India? It would be political folly and financial suicide (unless heavily subsidised by tax payers money circa 1970's)
Would a Labour government re-nationalise any privatised industries? No, you can bet they wouldn't.

I could go on and on with this on every issue discussed here and the answers would be the same

Simply put, the elecorate in this country does not have an Alternative when it comes to voting in a government. Whether it's a Labour, Tory or Coalition government, 95% of our politicians are self serving, self promoting and in it for what ever financial gains or powertrips they can take with them to the next stage in their flakey careers

Phew!!! I feel better for getting that of my chest

blueturando wrote:I think TLTTF is pointing out the hypocracy in British politics today. It's all well and good certain posters harping on and on about the mistakes of the coalition (Tories) and in a majority of cases I agree with them...But! the same posters will 'choose' to completely ignore the same mistakes made by the previous Labour government and this is where their arguments lose all credibility...and people wonder why there is so much apathy to politics in this country.

Lets take the NHS. I agree the coalition (Tories) will make a huge cock up of it, they always do...but the last Labour government brought in PFI and started to bring the private sector into the NHS more and more over its time in government

Lets take manufacturing....Does anyone seriously believe that a Labour government would increase the manufacturing base in this country when we simply cannot compete with counties like China and India? It would be political folly and financial suicide (unless heavily subsidised by tax payers money circa 1970's)
Would a Labour government re-nationalise any privatised industries? No, you can bet they wouldn't.

I could go on and on with this on every issue discussed here and the answers would be the same

Simply put, the elecorate in this country does not have an Alternative when it comes to voting in a government. Whether it's a Labour, Tory or Coalition government, 95% of our politicians are self serving, self promoting and in it for what ever financial gains or powertrips they can take with them to the next stage in their flakey careers

Phew!!! I feel better for getting that of my chest

Hi Bluey, Actually it was John Major who brought in PFI's to the NHS. "New" Labour merely continued them. And while im at it, we didnt have a "Labour" Government from 1997, we had a New Labour Government continuing Thatcher's free market.

You know Bluey, it must be the easiest thing in the world to stand for greed and selfishness, because these are peoples lowest basic instincts.

This is why I feel a tad sorry for Ed Milliband. Somehow he has to appeal to rotten Tory supporters and equally rotten Blairites, when we have an untold underclass out there, including the majority of 12 million pensioners who are living in poverty in this country, as we approach Remembrance Day.

You know Bluey, it must be the easiest thing in the world to stand for greed and selfishness, because these are peoples lowest basic instincts

Youre getting my post all wrong Ivanhoe. I was trying to point out that we don't have an alternative because ALL of the current partys are too similar and out for the own personal gains rather than putting serious real effort to help the people that put them into power....that goes for this lot and the last

I do NOT stand for greed and selfishness, but I am a realist and Bobby's earlier post spelled out our problems with manufacturing perfectly

blueturando wrote:

You know Bluey, it must be the easiest thing in the world to stand for greed and selfishness, because these are peoples lowest basic instincts

Youre getting my post all wrong Ivanhoe. I was trying to point out that we don't have an alternative because ALL of the current partys are too similar and out for the own personal gains rather than putting serious real effort to help the people that put them into power....that goes for this lot and the last

I do NOT stand for greed and selfishness, but I am a realist and Bobby's earlier post spelled out our problems with manufacturing perfectly

Greed and selfishness was what Thatcher was all about. And we are left with her legacy.

tlttf wrote:Does this count as an alternative?


Labour MP Margaret Moran ‘took £53,000 in false expense claims’

Moran 'had £53,000 in false claims'


08 November 2012

Labour MP Margaret Moran cheated the taxpayer out of more than £53,000 on her Parliamentary expenses, a court heard today.

The Luton South MP allegedly falsely claimed for repairs and upkeep of her homes including £22,000 for dry rot and £14,800 for a replacement boiler, central heating and a conservatory.

She “flipped” her designated main and second homes between properties in her Luton constituency, a Westminster flat and another house in Southampton, the court heard.

However, since the Commons expenses scandal broke, Moran’s health has deteriorated.

In April, Mr Justice Saunders ruled that she was unfit to stand trial. A jury at Southwark crown court was sworn in today not to decide whether she is guilty or not but whether “she did the alleged acts complained of”.

In all she faces 15 charges of false accounting and six counts of using a false instrument by submitting phoney invoices. Moran, 57, was not in court.

Yep another alternative!

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/labour-mp-margaret-moran-took-53000-in-false-expense-claims-8297677.html

I notice there is none of the Tory or L/Ds fraudulent activities like Duck Houses and Moat cleaning or Laws paying his boy friend £60.000 in rent money does that mean he is a rent boy ? and what about the recent expenses scandal renting one another's flats? So if you are going to talk about wrong doing pleas do not forget the Tories and L/Ds wrong doing and to end what about the Peado rings H.Q. No10 Downing St during the Maggots time in office why do you not start a thread about that tittf ?

Yes they were wrong Red, however they did declare what they were claiming for and didn't write false receipts. As for Paedo's your walking a dodgy line there my friend and should be aware of allegations without proof. I'm sure Ivan will have a word.

tlttf wrote:Yes they were wrong Red, however they did declare what they were claiming for and didn't write false receipts. As for Paedo's your walking a dodgy line there my friend and should be aware of allegations without proof. I'm sure Ivan will have a word.

It has been announced on the TV news a person that was abused gave an interview to reporter and the Tory MP concerned was the MP for Chester plus advised the Maggot during her reign of terror plus the two inquiries that they set up where shredded and let 23 nasty pieces of work away with it. So why do you not mention the wrong doings of the Tory and L/Ds when it comes to the scandal of EXPENSES your just as bad as your party tittf they still will not take RESPONSIBILITY for the TWO & HALF years they have been in power or all the fcuked up policies they have brought in.

Still not sure what the point is --- something about whether there are any alternatives to the Tory's attitude to government?
Or is it just who knows the most stories about greed and corruption.
There's greed and corruption in all walks of life - I thought we were talking about alternatives?

I thought we were talking about alternatives?.

You'll be lucky Boatlady.....I can see the tumble weed blowing through the forum as we speak.
Endless criticism and tribalism is easy....coming up with alternatives seems to be a step to far for most posters

blueturando wrote:

I thought we were talking about alternatives?.

You'll be lucky Boatlady.....I can see the tumble weed blowing through the forum as we speak.
Endless criticism and tribalism is easy....coming up with alternatives seems to be a step to far for most posters

Ill tell you what, bluey.

Yes its easy to be critical of the Tory right wing and what this elitist dogmatic crap has done for the most vulnerable in our society since Thatcher.

So let's bring it down to grass roots.

The vulnerable need more money in their pockets, from the elderly, to the disabled. And that's just for starters.

Now if you were PM, what would you do about sorting that out ?

Ivanhoe wrote:

blueturando wrote:

I thought we were talking about alternatives?.

You'll be lucky Boatlady.....I can see the tumble weed blowing through the forum as we speak.
Endless criticism and tribalism is easy....coming up with alternatives seems to be a step to far for most posters

Ill tell you what, bluey.

Yes its easy to be critical of the Tory right wing and what this elitist dogmatic crap has done for the most vulnerable in our society since Thatcher.

So let's bring it down to grass roots.

The vulnerable need more money in their pockets, from the elderly, to the disabled. And that's just for starters.

Now if you were PM, what would you do about sorting that out ?

I would like to know that myself Ivanhoe, his party is quite good at asking the Labour party for what they would do instead of taking it off the elderly and vulnerable.

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

blueturando wrote:

I thought we were talking about alternatives?.

You'll be lucky Boatlady.....I can see the tumble weed blowing through the forum as we speak.
Endless criticism and tribalism is easy....coming up with alternatives seems to be a step to far for most posters

Ill tell you what, bluey.

Yes its easy to be critical of the Tory right wing and what this elitist dogmatic crap has done for the most vulnerable in our society since Thatcher.

So let's bring it down to grass roots.

The vulnerable need more money in their pockets, from the elderly, to the disabled. And that's just for starters.

Now if you were PM, what would you do about sorting that out ?

I would like to know that myself Ivanhoe, his party is quite good at asking the Labour party for what they would do instead of taking it off the elderly and vulnerable.

The right wing always attack the old and the vulnerable, because they know that Britain largely is a politically apathetic nation.

Ivanhoe wrote:

Redflag wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:

blueturando wrote:

I thought we were talking about alternatives?.

You'll be lucky Boatlady.....I can see the tumble weed blowing through the forum as we speak.
Endless criticism and tribalism is easy....coming up with alternatives seems to be a step to far for most posters

Ill tell you what, bluey.

Yes its easy to be critical of the Tory right wing and what this elitist dogmatic crap has done for the most vulnerable in our society since Thatcher.

So let's bring it down to grass roots.

The vulnerable need more money in their pockets, from the elderly, to the disabled. And that's just for starters.

Now if you were PM, what would you do about sorting that out ?

I would like to know that myself Ivanhoe, his party is quite good at asking the Labour party for what they would do instead of taking it off the elderly and vulnerable.

The right wing always attack the old and the vulnerable, because they know that Britain largely is a politically apathetic nation.

I do not think that will last past April 2013 Ivanhoe, then the entire UK will wake up and smell the coffee.