Is there any alternative to the jaundiced Tory attitudes?

First topic message reminder :

Depressing, isn't it? All the miserable gits can come up with is oppression of the poor and fear of the disadvantaged. Never mind, here's something that can make us all feel better about the human race - even if it does have to include Cameron and Company .........

http://www.buzzfeed.com/expresident/pictures-that-will-restore-your-faith-in-humanity

This is how the Tories and their media poodles define 'the centre ground' in British politics:-


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQpqLGKWoAAvY27.jpg

It seems that the Tories just can't help themselves......

First Hancock.....

Tory Minister Matthew Hancock: Under 25s Are Too Unproductive To Deserve National Living Wage

Workers under the age of 25 are not “productive” enough to warrant being paid the new National Living Wage, according to Government Minister Matthew Hancock.

Speaking at a fringe event at the Conservative Party conference in Manchester this afternoon, Mr Hancock defended the different rates.

He said: “This was an active policy choice. Youth unemployment, whilst falling quite sharply, is still a long way above the unemployment rate for the over 25s.

“Anybody who has employed people knows that younger people, especially in their first jobs, are not as productive, on average.

“Now there are some who are very productive under the age of 25 but you have to set policy for the average. It was an active choice not to cover the under 25s.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/06/matthew-hancock-living-minimum-wage_n_8252008.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

The every ones favorite.....Iain Smith......

Iain Duncan Smith Says Slashing Tax Credits Will Teach Parents 'Children Cost Money'

Iain Duncan Smith has said the Government's controversial benefits crackdown will teach parents that "children cost money" and put pressure on them not to have a third child.

In his conference speech, the former Tory leader outlined how his reforms were about "ending poverty, not entrenching it", and being fair to the "vast bulk of taxpayers who pay for other people’s welfare while taking responsibility for themselves".

He added: "That’s what the limit on Child Tax Credit for more than two children is about – bringing home to parents the reality that children cost money and if you have more kids you have to make the choices others make and not assume taxpayers money lets you avoid the consequences of such choices."

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/06/iain-duncan-smith-says-sl_n_8253694.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Not content with one controversial speech he then is reported, but not in the Tory press,,,,

Iain Duncan Smith tells disabled people to work their way out of poverty

Disabled people should have to work their way out poverty and not simply be taken out of it by state financial assistance, Iain Duncan Smith has said.

The Work and Pensions Secretary said it was not the role of government to pay the disabled enough to stop them being poor and that the correct way to escape poverty was by working.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/iain-duncan-smith-tells-disabled-people-to-work-their-way-out-of-poverty-a6683361.html

I wonder if the nice Mr Cameron will go on TV  later today to say that both Hancock and Smith were 'misquoted' like he did for Hunt?

Motr thanlikely astradt Davy boy will admonish all of the Tory MPs, but who will admonish Davy boys speech because as is the norm with the Tories his speech was nothing more than LIES LIES & more LIES.

What we now know from Cameron's "equality" theme in his speech to Tory Conference that either there are two distinct Tory Parties on a parallel universe, or two distinct David Camerons.

What he said today is in conflict with what the Party is actually doing - deliberately increasing the gap between haves and have-nots through continued austerity and working tax-credit reductions.

Since May 2010 Davy boy has broken all his promises to the low paid sick disabled vulnerable and the working people of the UK, the only ones that Davy boy has kept his promises to the big Corporations bankers & hedge fund managers OW.

It's very easy to emulate the Tories and take what someone says out of context.....


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If the STUPID C**T had finished the quote from JC Ivan it would of read that JC wanted to bring him before the courts and be charged with all the Atrosities that Bin Laden had committed.

Jeremy Corbyn confronted the Tories with the poverty they're creating at PMQs - and all they could do was laugh

From an article by Liam Young:-

As Jeremy Corbyn stood for his second PMQs, the mocking Tory laughs told us everything we need to know about their enduring Bullingdon Club-style politics. Old habits die hard, it seems. But Corbyn opened strongly, with an issue that unites the Labour Party: the cuts to working tax credits which penalise the lowest earners, known colloquially as the Tory work penalty.

Again, the Tories laughed at the name ‘Kelly’; they soon fell silent, however, as they heard of her struggle as the mother of a disabled child earning minimum wage in a 40.5-hour-per-week job. Corbyn tackled the bullyboys by pausing at their laughter this time. “Some may find this funny” he said, as he continued to talk about mass inequality and the housing problem in London. It was a subtle highlight of something glaringly obvious: for millionaires protected by Tory policies, inequality bolstered by unfair taxes and buy-to-let properties really is hilarious.

Cameron’s reply to the work penalty issue was the same old line: apparently a £20-a-week increase in wages will magically solve the problem. This is not true, as Corbyn promptly replied: working families will be £1,300 a year worse off as the Conservative government hammers the working and middle classes so as to give to the super rich. Cameron claimed that Corbyn’s figures on poverty were wrong, but perhaps that's because the Work and Pensions Secretary fixed the definition of ‘poverty’ recently. You don’t feed and clothe homeless children by changing a definition, and the government should be ashamed.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-confronted-the-tories-with-the-poverty-theyre-creating-at-pmqs-and-all-they-could-do-a6693756.html

Laughter is not necessarily just a response to humour - humans also laugh when they are embarrassed or nervous.

But how easy is it to embarrass a Tory?

The suggestion that one of them may have inadvertently assisted somebody less fortunate than themselves might be cause for a small blush or involuntary titter...

oftenwrong wrote:Laughter is not necessarily just a response to humour - humans also laugh when they are embarrassed or nervous.

But  how easy is it to embarrass a Tory?

To embarrass a Tory is IMPOSSIBLE OW, just as you would have no chance in getting a Tory to "HANG THERE HEAD IN SHAME"

Something is happening in politics across the nation, in my opinion.

We saw with last week's Question Time the despair of that erstwhile Tory voter and her realisation at what her vote meant for her family. The apparent angst of the Tory MPs in the Tax Credit debate was very revealing until they were whipped into line. Underneath, they know that their working class constituents are not going to swallow this.

Something is happening. The natives are about to realise the true cost of a Tory-led government with all that entails. This is the time for Labour to capitalise on the current mood of the country and it was good to see Corbyn doing that at PMQs. In fact, both Labour & the SNP did it so well that Flashman appeared and everyone saw the true heart of the Tories.

How the Tories reached a decision on the recommended 'sugar tax'........


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Claudine wrote:Something is happening. The natives are about to realise the true cost of a Tory-led government with all that entails. This is the time for Labour to capitalise on the current mood of the country and it was good to see Corbyn doing that at PMQs. In fact, both Labour & the SNP did it so well that Flashman appeared and everyone saw the true heart of the Tories.

Another Labour lord has given up the whip and went to the cross benches Claudine, citing Jeremy Corbyn  as the enemy of the majority of the people of the UK.   When in reality the only enemy of the people of thE UK is the BLOODY EFFING Tories.

I would like to know when these blairites will stand up for the people of the UK, or do they not care when the voters call us TORY LITE.

Then this Lord needs to give up his peerage as he only got it through the Labour party.

I'm a great fan of Miliband - in fact I think he would have made a terrific Prime Minister. However, the country chose not to listen to him for a multitude of reasons. The Labour leadership election saw Jeremy Corbyn chosen so this Lord and all of the others need to acknowledge the fact that a fully democratic decision placed he has a huge mandate from the people.

If they don't like that fact, then they should go. This applies to anyone whose heart is not with the majority of Labour members. Go and place yourself in a party which suits you and I have no doubt that that will be the Tory party.

As a Labour Party member, I am these days expected to keep my mouth shut and keep my opinions to myself in case I upset anyone or in case it gives the impression of disunity, whilst at the same time I read every day the vile abuse and insults thrown at Tony Blair by party members.

I accept that the leadership election gave us Jeremy Corbyn, but I do not have to agree with Mr Corbyn, indeed I dont, as far as I am concerned there is no use pretending that the party is now more divided than at any time since the 1980s, let us not beat about the bush, the PLP and those of us who regard ourselves as moderates are at odds with 50 to 60 percent of members who want a return to what I term as been "Antique Socialism".

The antique shop is where old fashioned socialism belongs, and I find it absolutely astonishing that many of these grass roots people actually want to aim for "the public ownership of the means of production and wealth" which in essence is Marxist-Leninist, and not worthy of a left of centre modern social democratic party which wishes to attain power.

These peers can see what is coming, and what is certainly coming is electoral suicide, yes I do realise that many really believe that Corbyn is going to be all things and do wonders, all I can say is time will tell.

The wind of reality suddenly blows through the thread...

witchfinder. Far from being “expected to keep your mouth shut”, you are regularly invited to submit questions for Jeremy Corbyn to ask at PMQs. He’s also indicated that Labour policy will be determined by the membership, with a reduced role for the shadow cabinet and MPs. I think he’s making a brave attempt to counter the claims that the main political parties are out of touch with everyone outside ‘the Westminster bubble’.

Labels such as ‘moderate’ and ‘extremist’ are largely meaningless; we all think our own views are ‘moderate’ and no doubt ‘sensible’ as well. In the 1850s it was considered ‘extreme’ to expect local councils to deal with sewage and drainage; ‘The Times’ (1 August 1854) said “it would rather take its chance with cholera than be bullied into health by the Public Health Board”. It was considered extreme to want schooling to be provided for all children, or to think that working class men should have the vote, and fifty years later the Suffragettes were extreme for wanting votes for women.

Jeremy Corbyn wants the railways renationalised. They were in public ownership from 1948 until 1995, and until the Thatcherites took over the Tory Party, few people challenged that idea. The same is true of the provision of gas and electricity, and the National Health Service, which is slowly being strangled and privatised by stealth. What’s extreme about returning to what even most Tories accepted for a long period of time? Just because the Tories have moved further and further to the right since the 1970s, it doesn’t mean that we have to keep following them. If Jeremy Corbyn is an extremist, so were Denis Healey and Jim Callaghan.

When you belong to a political party, you assume that everyone in it is on the same side. Anyone who recognises the validity of, and participates in, an internal party election, should accept the result of it. In 2010, I wanted Andy Burnham to become Labour leader. He didn’t, but I was loyal to Ed Miliband and grew to like and respect him. This year, I wanted Angela Eagle to become deputy leader. She didn’t, but Tom Watson will have my support. More than 251,000 people voted for Jeremy Corbyn – 59.5% of those eligible to vote – yet some of our more ‘moderate’ (or rather ‘right-wing’) members won’t accept the result of an election in which they took part. Quite frankly, I’m disgusted with the likes of Kendall, Cooper, Reeves and Hunt, as they’ve preferred to demonstrate their petulance rather than strive for party unity.

The peers to whom you refer include Lord Warner, who has strong links to some private healthcare companies. He was the co-author of a report calling for us all to pay a £10-a-month ‘membership charge’ to fund the NHS (what is National Insurance for?), along with a £20-a-night charge if we are admitted to hospital. With views like those, we should be questioning what he was doing in the Labour Party in the first place!

Tony Blair did some very good things. He brokered peace in Northern Ireland, he introduced the minimum wage and a minimum income guarantee for pensioners, he doubled spending on education and trebled spending on health. I’m sure that most Labour supporters thought he was a good guy – until 2003. However, he betrayed Labour principles when he fell under Bush’s influence and got us involved in the invasion of Iraq. His behaviour since, including being an adviser to the dictator of Azerbaijan, has made him toxic. If there is anyone who should “keep their mouth shut”, it’s probably him.

Outstanding post, Ivan

It should not need repeating, that vocal Disunity within any party is music to the ears of its opponents.

You are spot on OW the only thing DISUNITY will do is give the people of the UK ANOTHER Tory gov't. thank you Ivan for your post it points out those that because they cannot have the leader THEY want they are spitting out there DUMMY.

The passed two leaders of the Labour party I did not vote for them, but I agree with Claudine Ed Miliband would have made a GREAT PM, you all know I travelled the UK trying to do my bit for a Labour gov't, when I was in Wirral West I was due to leave on the Wednesday but someone whispered in my ear and told me that Ed would be arriving in WW on the Saturday so I had to plead with the hotel for extra days which I paid for plus lost my return train ticket & had to book a coach home to Glasgow.

IVAN is spot on the Labour party acts as a whole with its core values at the center, when I saw Ed Miliband I also saw how many LIES the right wing media had said & printed about Ed, he is a fine looking man very tall and I did see a Geek in any way shape or form.

As I have said the last TWO labour leaders I have not voted for, but I am willing to give Jermy Corbyn a fair crack of the whip just as I did for Ed Miliband, 85% of full Labour members voted for him plus the majority of those that paid £3.00. So I suggest that ALL Labour members & ALL Labour MPs get behind JC so that we can fight the real enemy here "THE BLOODY TORIES".

The Tories are now the party of the working man.........
No longer the more Nasty party.........


Then This:-...........................................

Lord Heseltine Says It's A 'Good' Time For Steel Workers To Lose Jobs In Britain's 'Exciting' Economy

Tory former deputy prime minister Lord Heseltine has been called "insulting" and ignorant after saying it is "probably as good a time" as any for UK steelworkers to lose their jobs.

The peer said it would have been "very expensive and questionable" for the Government to seek to keep steel plants open under commercial pressures, according to The Press Association.

After almost 3,500 people had their jobs axed in recent weeks as the steel industry faces extinction, Heseltine claimed it was an "exciting" time for the economy as job opportunities were growing.

Lord Heseltine, who last year claimed that British workers "don't get up early enough", told the Murnaghan programme on Sky News: "If you ignore market forces the chances are that you will have an industrial strategy based on supporting yesterday's industry.

"The market is unstoppable and invariably it wins," added the peer, who has been a close adviser to Prime Minister David Cameron on economic growth.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/25/steel-industry-jobs-lord-heseltine_n_8384548.html

What happens when the price of steel goes up and we do not have our own steel making industry, it will mean we have to pay through the nose for steel more than likely it will be chinese steel and they will be able to hold us to ransome to pay the price of cheap crap steel.

But of course the Tories have looked no further than the end of there own noses, so we can take it there will be NO BUILDING of much needed homes, and as to those that wanted to own there own home that will be gone because the price of a house will go through the roof.

Among their Lordships who voted in favour of cuts to in-work benefits were ELEVEN millionaires.

They didn't get rich by giving money to poor people.

Including the facially challenged Mr Lloyd-Webber.

I was watching Max Keiser on the RT channel this morning & I suggest for those on this forum to go to U-Tube and watch it I knew things were bad but this got my blood to boiling point. It appears that the Bamkers in the City of London are going around saying no matter what FRAUD they commit they are safe from JAIL if you watch todays Max Keiser you will not believe what you hear.

If you cannot get it on U-Tube I think this program is repeated later on today try 3.30pm or 5.30pm.

RT is the Russian 24/7 English-language news channel which brings the Russian view on global news.

I'm confused. As a schoolboy, I was exhorted to give my Saturday Sixpence to National Savings in order to support our valiant Russian allies, led by "Uncle Joe" Stalin. After the victory however, Europe was divided by an Iron Curtain and Russia threatened everyone with nuclear annihalation. Then that nice Mr. Ghorbachov made friends with Ronald Reagan and destroyed all their missiles (we were told). But along came the not totally unfamiliar style of Kremlin leader in the shape of ex-KGB (later The Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB) (Russian: ФСБ) President Putin which takes us back to Square Two, Cold War, and invites people to choose.

Phew! For a moment there I was expecting a tale or two about Tsar Nicholas II to be regurgitated...

a tale or two about Tsar Nicholas II

Was that the bloke who looked more like one of the British Royal Family than any of them ever did?

Oi'm still confused.

oftenwrong wrote:RT is the Russian 24/7 English-language news channel which brings the Russian view on global news.

I'm confused.  As a schoolboy, I was exhorted to give my Saturday Sixpence to National Savings in order to support our valiant Russian allies, led by "Uncle Joe" Stalin.  After the victory however, Europe was divided by an Iron Curtain and Russia threatened everyone with nuclear annihalation. Then that nice Mr. Ghorbachov made friends with Ronald Reagan and destroyed all their missiles (we were told).  But along came the not totally unfamiliar style of Kremlin leader in the shape of ex-KGB (later The Federal Security Service of the Russian Federation (FSB) (Russian: ФСБ) President Putin which takes us back to Square Two, Cold War, and invites people to choose.

 

The RTchannel program that I talk about is a BLOGGER from the UK who was a guest on the Max Keiser show, Max has different guests some from the UK politics and some from every walk of life he also talks about the USA like the company that builds & runs prisoners for the USA gov't. So before you DIS the program please go and have a listen before you atomatically start thinking STALLIN.

I think that’s what in Germany they call “die falsche Ende des Stockes”..........  


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Including the facially challenged Mr Lloyd-Webber.

We’re supposed to be grateful that Lloyd Webber (whose estimated wealth is £620 million) will not claim expenses for his flight from New York to London to vote with the Tories in the House of Lords in favour of cuts to tax credits! His spokesperson said: "He voted last night because he feels that it is important for democracy that the House of Lords should not override decisions made by the elected House of Commons”.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/10/27/andrew-lloyd-webber-vote-plane-expenses-tax-credits-vote-non-dom_n_8398432.html

I don't know how to love him, and some of the reader comments beneath the article hit the nail on the head:-

“It's hugely distasteful to imagine the squillionaire lord quaffing champagne at 35,000 feet, then rushing from LHR in his chauffeur-driven limo, to vote that struggling families should have their benefits cut.”

“Some of us think it's important for democracy that governments don't get away with doing something they explicitly promised not to do. The House of Lords did its job, it applied a brake to a proposal that was fundamentally immoral and unreasonable.”

“He thought upholding the rights of his friends in the government were more important than upholding the rights of normal people to live free from poverty.”

Before the election in May, Cameron promised not to cut tax credits. His government has no mandate to do so. This wasn’t a money bill that was delayed by the House of Lords, as some constitutional ‘experts’ are trying to claim, it was a statutory instrument for reducing one of the DWP’s benefits. Maybe it’s a pity that we don’t have an elected head of state who can say to the government: “You have no mandate to do this; scrap it or put it before the voters in a general election”. I suppose any dream will do.....

And if the House of Lords is just meant to rubber stamp anything that passes the House of Commons, what is the point of it?

If any event could sum up the attitude of the Tory mind, it is contained in the distasteful story of Lloyd Webber and the Lords' vote.

The vile Peer is a man who is clearly ugly in more ways than one...

Quote: "This wasn’t a money bill that was delayed by the House of Lords, as some constitutional ‘experts’ are trying to claim, it was a statutory instrument for reducing one of the DWP’s benefits."

The SI comes as a package with all the other "Royal Prerogatives" which Ministers can exercise, as for example Mr Blair did by invading Iraq without troubling Parliament to vote on the matter.

If Politicians were genuinely concerned about "The Constitution", we would have a written one in writing. That you could actually read when in doubt.

Phil Hornby wrote:Phew! For a moment there I was expecting a tale or two about Tsar Nicholas II to be regurgitated...  

I think I need to clear up a few things on this forum, the person I was telling you about on Max Keiser show on the RT channel is Rowan Bosworth Davies ho is an ex-official of the Bank of England, Ivan would appreciate it if you could find this and put it on CE as I do not know how to do this.

PH nobody on here has to keep there mouths shut, during the run-up to the G.E.we all where very vocal on this forum.

“J’accuse George Osborne” – a blog by Rowan Bosworth-Davies, a former Met detective dealing with financial crimes.

“He (Osborne) is just bending over backwards to give the wide boys and the spivs in the City everything they want in terms of making life very easy for them to accept dirty money and foreign money coming in from sources which they should otherwise be doing a lot more to identify. In so doing, he is actually facilitating an awful lot of financial crime. I’m not saying he’s doing this maliciously – I don’t believe he is – I believe he is doing it because he just doesn’t know any better.”

Start at 13:00:-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1hioHEsDms

Another example of ‘compassionate Conservatism’………  

Tory MP drones on for 90 minutes to stop carers getting free hospital parking

Philip Davies is the Tory MP for Shipley. He's taken advantage of a Commons loophole, which puts no time limit on members' speeches during a private member's bill debate, to talk out a proposal by Labour MP Julie Cooper to allow carers free parking at hospitals.

Davies is a landlord who thinks that the law requiring homes to be fit for human habitation is “an unnecessary burden”. In November last year, he talked out a bill which would have prevented landlords from evicting tenants who dared to request vital repairs. He wants the minimum wage scrapped, is against both the EU and equal marriage, and is an organiser for the Taxpayers’ Alliance. If all of that isn’t enough to make you hate him, he lives with the sadistic skunk known as Esther McVey; water really does find its own level.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/shameless-tory-philip-davies-drones-6735548#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Davies

They must make a lovely couple - at least they have many things in common