To hate Jews is to hate God

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To hate Jews is to hate God.

If you believe in the sacrifice of Jesus, then you must believe that God planned for it and set the conditions even before the earth was formed. If as most believe, the Jews were the cause of the sacrifice, then one must believe that God put the notion and desire to kill Jesus in the Jewish hearts. Jews then were God’s tools in carrying out God’s plan. Jews then should be venerated just as Jesus is because Jesus and Jews were required and caused by God to participate in the sacrifice. They were all doing God’s will and not their own.

Jesus was a Jew and to hate Jews means that Jesus is also hated. The church has historically persecuted Jews and only repented for their actions in 2011 with the pope acknowledging that not all Jews should be hated. Just those directly involved in the sacrifice of Jesus. Ignoring of course that they were charged directly by God to be and do what God wanted.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jews-not-responsible-for-death-of-christ-pope-says-49267/

Why then have Christians historically hated Jews, and by inference, hate the Jew part of God/Jesus the Jew?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKg4HLsu5gE&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ott15j2KwQ&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoHP-f-_F9U

The weird twist to this history is that the Christian right who hates Jews the most, is now the ones pushing for funding of the Jewish homeland to fulfill prophesy.

Most Jews do not believe that Jesus was the messiah. Is the Christian right just funding Jews to help drive them to destruction at the hands of God?

Jews tend not to read the O. T. the way Christians do. Are Christian interpretations of Jewish text superior or inferior to the Jewish interpretation of their own myths?

Regards
DL

seeking truth yields figurative and literal internal headaches and external ridicule.

Texas,

Seeking truth without proof or evidence would give anyone a headache, and claiming truth without evidence or proof invites ridicule.

Your truth is a game of CONNECT, you search about cherry picking fragments that support your predetermined truth, while ignoring the large chunks of evidence that contradict it.

But as you say, its your own logic.

Well, this conversation exemplifies why I find religion and beliefs in gods and creators so dangerous. It's all well and good to have staunch convictions on an internet forum, but imagine if that same unwavering conviction was wielded by, say, Osama bin Laden, the Ayatollah Khomeini, the Ku Klux Klan ... oh wait ...

The problem is very simple. Sure, humanity has engaged in acts of violence and warfare over all manner of things: wealth, power, land, resources, etc. But only when it involves religion does the fighting go on and on and on and on ... generational hatred, generational wars. The reason is because religious conviction regardless of the religion or god is uncompromising. It is why it is almost guaranteed there will never be peace in the Middle East or peace anywhere, for that matter. War comes in all kinds of shapes and sizes; some do not even involve violence. The "Culture War" for instance, a term used by evangelicals and fundamentalists to describe their war on homosexuality in America.

Seeking truth yields no “grand prize”; seeking truth yields figurative and literal internal headaches and external ridicule.

You don't seek truth. You seek support for your belief. If you are not believing in God because you get to go to heaven, then what are you believing for?

You don't seek truth. You seek support for your belief. If you are not believing in God because you get to go to heaven, then what are you believing for?

Snowy my dear, there are many reasons why people turn to religion, its not all death denial, in the case of Texas he does not like loose ends, he requires precise boundaries to explain his story of purpose, meaning and significance.
Nothing has changed much in 40,000 years, Texas wants answers, he wants explanations and he wants all of these things to remove ubiquitous anxiety.

I actually don't mind that, its the way he promotes and defends his paintings on the cave wall that is less appealing.

Texas,

You didn't like the loose end, you see the mathematical nature of our universe and eureka you see design, no more loose end.

.....but you didn't stop there, there being a design was not good enough, you wanted more than just design, and even more than just a designer, you wanted an explanation for the design, an explanation that was relative to you, so you copied one from the bronze age.

Let us assume the universe is designed, what are the probabilities that the nature of the design and designer was revealed to one tribe in one region in one continent in one planet in one solar system in one galaxy. in one point in time...is the truth ?

The probabilities are so astronomical as to require faith to believe it, in plain fundamental English, the Bible is true because it says it is literally true.

Texas, I know you think your belief is scholarly bullet proof but in reality it is a charade, a form of intellectual self deception, your mind used to fight against irrationality and suddenly the mathematical description of physical cause and effect changes all that. You suddenly reject the concept of random symmetry, order from chaos and grasp with two hands a bronze age explanation.

I suggest in all honesty there were more underlying influences that persuaded you to reject rationality and embrace irrationality disguised as the truth.

The evidence for your intellectual self deception lies in your choice of debating style, it is designed to obscure and disguise the obvious weaknesses of your truth, your intellectual pride refuses to openly say " the Bible is true because I want to believe it is true ".

There is no need for all this charade, it doesn't make you a serial killer just needy like the rest of the human race.

There is a certain type of personality that needs structure more than most, we all need book ends to stop us falling over but some fall further than others.
They require structures that offer belts and braces support if they fall or to stop them falling again, better still if the support structure forgives falling down.

Compulsive or impulsive people are considered to be lacking in self control, their mind is weaker than their drives,, they act out of instinct, a reaction to basic genetic needs, religion offers them refuge from reality, a reality that includes self loathing.

QUOTE: "YHVH, often mis-transliterated YHWH, is causative eternal existence ...."

Is there any significance in the fact that although the letter "Y" was present in Classic Greek, it had no place in the Latin alphabet until after the Roman conquest of Greece in the First Century BC?

Is there any significance in the fact that although the letter "Y" was present in Classic Greek, it had no place in the Latin alphabet until after the Roman conquest of Greece in the First Century BC?

Probably, I find it very significant that the Christian church preferred to keep the Bible in a language few could understand.

Rock, you didn't answer the question. If you believe in God, you believe in heaven which is the grand prize of belief. If you don't believe in heaven then why do you believe in God? What's the point?

You spent a great deal of time and space not answering my question.

You talk about fear and I think this is at the heart of belief. Fear of dying, fear of the "not being". You won't know one way or the other. You have no cognizance of the time before you were born and you will have none after you die. There is nothing to fear.

So, please just answer this simple question without a long explanation. What do you believe in God for if it isn't to get into heaven?

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Alright, to sum up. You believe you are going to heaven when you die. That is the grand prize of unwavering, staunch, Job-like, dogmatic, in spite of all evidence to the contrary belief.

If you didn't believe in your Elohim you would go to hell.

Fear of hell is at the root of your belief.

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Alright, to sum up. You don't believe in death so your belief is death denial. You believe you are going to heaven.

Heaven is the grand prize and death denial and belief in God will get you there. Otherwise, why would you or anyone else believe in God at all? Maybe you aren't afraid of the dying process but you are afraid of the 'not being'. And you think you are important to God and therefore worthy of not 'dying' and going to heaven (wherever that is).

Compelling evidence of design s creams forth from the organization of all that is into space-time, mass-energy, weak force, strong force, electromagnetism, and gravity in the first few tiniest fractions of a nanosecond after the “event” of Big Bang, and design screams “designer.”

Texas,

If the mathematical nature of our universe was indeed compelling evidence for design then can you explain why few physicists agree with you, why are physicists not looking for a designer ?

A Nobel Laureate physicist from Texas says this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rdq_2c2dCgE

The obvious symmetry in our universe can be accounted for, and its called gravity, your God is in effect gravity.

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As usual Shirina you are unable to understand what is implied.

All inventions etc; are as a result of past actions etc;

However, what the present generations will do with the latest inventions will not depend on what others did with theirs in the past, it will depend entirely on present circumstaneces which are changing daily.

Your summation has nothing to do with what I’ve said.

It doesn't have to.

All inventions etc; are as a result of past actions etc;

I thought you discounted what has gone before, changed your tune eh ?

However, what the present generations will do with the latest inventions will not depend on what others did with theirs in the past, it will depend entirely on present circumstaneces which are changing daily.

Wanna bet?

If not for WWII, European nations would have fallen upon each other like wolves over the idea of the EU and the controversy it brings - just as European nations have been invading one another for thousands of years. History matters, ESPECIALLY if you're going to discuss global affairs. We are creatures of history, polyglide - it directs and guides our actions both as individuals and as civilizations.

I just wish history had enabled you to understand reality.

it directs and guides our actions both as individuals and as civilizations.

The situation in the MIddle East is entirely based on history and past events. The conflicts between Arabs and Jews has been going on for millennia.

I just wish history had enabled you to understand reality.

Savor the irony ...

I just wish history had enabled you to understand reality.

Fossils are history and fossils scream evolution, but you dismiss this reality because seemingly we cannot know what happened in history.

You are like a spinning top banging off walls and doors, just clueless.

I fear not knowing the ends of space-time. We can’t even know what’s going on in our own solar system. Curiosity is just touching the hem of the garment on what’s happening right now in one tiny corner of Mars, the most known planet, and it can’t see back in time. Jupiter’s interior and Saturn’s interiors are unknowable for the foreseeable future. And past Neptune? Forget it. All we can do is examine from here visible and invisible magnetic waves that started their journeys here at least four point five years ago and up to millions or billions of years ago.

Texas,

You sound like a frustrated " Trekkie " fan, and your solution is to adopt a bronze age explanation of the entire universe.

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Then call it a summation of what I’ve said?

Why?

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Then why call it a summation of what I’ve said?

I've summed up as briefly as possible without preaching or lecturing. You don't believe in death. You said so. So you deny death. You are a death denier or in death denial. You believe the promises that God made to you in the bible, one of those promises is an all inclusive all expenses paid trip to heaven when you die.

No one would believe as strongly as you do if there were no pay off to your belief. If you are saying that you don't believe because the reward is heaven, then please answer the question that I've asked you many times and you dance away from.

Why would you believe in God if the reward is not eternal life?

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You never die; I never die.

To sum up briefly: You deny death.

“I believe in God’s promises, so I can also answer the question, “Why do you believe in God’s promises?” I believe in his promises because he has delivered on his promises to me. He never promised me a rose garden, so I haven’t looked for one. For example, through Y’shua’s apostle, Jesus’ apostle, Paul, he promised me that I can persevere through all things through Moshiach, Christ, who strengthens me.”

God's promised eternal life in heaven with him and Jesus. Without all the deluded intellectuality you attach to your belief the bottom line is eternal life/heaven is the prize.

Why else would you believe? Every believer of any faith believes because they fear eternal damnation. Otherwise you would not believe. You have no reason to believe if the pay off isn't eternal life. To say otherwise is dishonest.

"My Father's mansion has many rooms."

It's going to need them if everyone expecting to go to Heaven when they die is not to suffer a terrible disappointment.

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“As the study of physics continued, I slowly realized design on a macro scale. Just the fact that phenomena like all of the mind-bending aspects of Special and General Relativity can be precisely described mathematically pretty much blew me away.

For example, through Y’shua’s apostle, Jesus’ apostle, Paul, he promised me that I can persevere through all things through Moshiach, Christ, who strengthens me.”

Texas, no need to spam us all into submission, take a deep breath and explain to us victims, what aspects of general relativity enable Paul to make promises on behalf of a dead chap he never had the pleasure of meeting ?


A lifetime of studying and contemplating has caused me to know, " dead men have a limited capacity for conversation ", and nothing in Einstein's theory of relativity alters this knowledge.

Okie Dokie, lets see if I can piece together your little jigsaw and see if it complies with basic logical principles, lets see if your own logic stands the test of logic.

As an atheist you observed nothing in nature that screamed design, then you observe the mathematical regularity and symmetry of gravity and it screams design, and by definition a designer.

Now unless I am mistaken a design is not identified by its regularity or symmetry but by its purpose, a simple trip to Vegas to play the slots demonstrates my point. Your logic dictates the irregular, asymmetric and random slots are not designed, and yet we know this randomness is purposely designed. So logically one cannot KNOW if something is designed or not by its properties, one needs to observe purpose in order to identify design.

I fail to see how one can perceive purpose in gravity alone, one has to expand ones observations beyond gravity to see purpose, and this expansion must incorporate life. And yet for 20 years you as an atheist by definition saw no designed purpose to life or nature.

My logic differs from your logic, since symmetry alone does not scream design, I fail to see how this observation could possibly change your initial conclusion of life's randomness. This suggests your conversion had more to do with purpose than symmetry, at 20 years of age your mind matured and sought purpose, lo and behold the Bible provides purpose, and you sought scholarly reasons for believing in a design and a designer.

Logic dictates one starts with a premise and work toward a logical conclusion, you reversed this process, you started with a fixed conclusion that there is purpose behind life and the Bible is true, and tried to find evidence to logically prove design and a designer.

Unfortunately for your case there is no evidence that proves design, so you fabricate evidence to prove your conclusion is not illogical or irrational, and reject all evidence that contradicts the Bible, the design and the designer in order to protect and defend your chosen purpose.

As I said, its an intellectual sham to avoid stating the obvious, at 20 you needed life to have a special purpose and you went out and found one that made your life meaningful. Some perceive randomness as meaningless, and that was the driving force behind your conversion, nothing to do with relativity or the Big Bang.


I stated earlier there is nothing wrong with you requiring the Bible to give your life meaning and purpose, just don't bullshit me it was a choice born out of scholarly logic.

Mr Spock and David Hume did not believe in God because there was no logic to support it....the defense rests.

To sum up ever so briefly. (at least briefer than your post)

You believe that there is a part of you that never dies. What this part is, you haven't said. You agree that the body dies but you think that some other part, perhaps the 'soul', never dies. You deny absolute death, in spite of the evidence that when your brain dies, you die. You believe that a part of you leaves your body and goes somewhere else. So you deny absolute death.

If you are saying you believe in God for scholarly reasons only (I'm referring to the reams of repetitive posts) you are lying to yourself Rock. You would not believe if the pay off wasn't eternal life. No one would. Take that out of the system and you have no reason to believe, no reason to defend your belief as staunchly as you do. God is going to reward your committment personally by granting you a place in heaven.

Believers believe because the grand prize is a place in heaven and eternal life when you die. Is that true or not as far as you are concerned?

Snowy,

You have just invited Texas to post yet more repetitive spam, you do realize this ?

I intend to lobby the politburo to have all the posts of Texas limited to 14-15 lines, on the grounds the content insults my intelligence.

Hi Tosh

The ONLY reason anyone believes in God is because of the promise of eternal life in heaven wherever or whenever that is. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar. The psychology of belief is NEVER based on intellectual study alone. NO ONE would put that much effort and energy into a belief system if there wasn't a pay off or prize or promise at the end of your life. And the basis of that belief is the fear of death, the 'not being'.

Everything else that is said is meant to make that belief 'sound' like it was purely an intellectual pursuit. Bullshit.

For me to say anything other than the following is dishonest.

It is dishonest to completely ignore the question I asked and obfuscate with utter rubbish that is designed to make your belief sound like an intellectual pursuit when at the heart of it, you are afraid of death and eternal damnation. You believe you will have eternal life because of your belief in God. And you also think, maybe subconsciously, that your defense of the faith pleases God. You are a good Christian.

Just for once, why don't you admit the truth when you are asked?