Who is right about the British economy?

First topic message reminder :

As Lloyd Grossman would say "lets look at the evidence"

26th January 2010 - this was the date that the UK recession was finaly over, our growth returned back into the black again at 0.1% later revised upwards to 0.4%.

This was also a news story back in January 2010
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The begining of 2010 has seen some improvement in the uk housing market. People's confidence seems to have returned to pre uk recession levels.(Zoopla.co.uk)

In the second quarter of 2010 the economy of the United Kingdom was growing at 1.2%, the fastest rate of growth for nine years.

By July the new coalition government had been in power for a couple of months, the chancellor gave his first budget and the nation was put on alert for the waves of spending cuts and redundancies which were to follow soon.

Towards the end of 2010 UK growth began to go backwards again, and actualy went back into negative growth in the 4th quarter, perilously close to recession again.

So here we are in October 2011, 19 months after this government entered office and our growth figures are lower than what they were when they came to office in May 2010.

But not only is growth stagnant, unemployment is higher, inflation is higher, confidence is lower, no sign of a recovery in the housing market, and the promise that the private sector can take up the slack of the thousands made redundant hasent happened.

As we approach the 18 month mark, is time begining to run out for David Cameron and George Osborne. ?

Without doubt. Most financial problems can be resolved given time, but there is a marked absence at the moment of anyone generating new wealth, which is obviously essential.

The usual engines of industry are sitting on their cash, waiting for a break in the general gloom and despondency before they make investment decisions, and the Banks are STILL "reinforcing their balance sheets", i.e. trying to look solvent.

Small miracle required please, Gideon/David/Nick.

Cameron has been boasting because McDonald's are creating quite a few jobs in the UK. Does this mean that we're moving towards a 'Big Mac Society'??

At a time when many British families are deciding they can't afford a holiday, or new clothes and a nicer car, MacDonalds provides an accessible way of rewarding yourself and cheering the kids up.

Business is booming. What's the lesson there for Government? Little by little - not all at once.

This morning ( wed 25th Jan ) the Office for National Statistics revealed that economic growth has slumped once again, the official figures now put growth at just 0.9%.

In 2010, the year this shower took office, growth was 2.1%, remind me, what is Cameron and Osbornes excuse again. ?

leaves on the line - wrong kind of snow - extra bank holiday - bad weather

Cameron Explains...

)prweek.com)

" It is not that we have no growth, it is simply that the growth we have is less than the complete failure of growth that we had last time..."

Phil Hornby wrote:Cameron Explains...

)prweek.com)

" It is not that we have no growth, it is simply that the growth we have is less than the complete failure of growth that we had last time..."

(aside) It's all the buggers deserve, Cleggers.

I have no idea what is happening with the economy. Today I - as a private sector 'operator' - travelled to London to be offered a ridiculous amount of public money to undertake some far from complicated work .

The tasks could be undertaken by any half-decent public servant, but they are begrudged a tenth of the remuneration for doing so. It just goes to show that the approach to such matters depends upon whom the paymasters perceive is benefiting. Any amount of cash is willingly ladled out to people with the same label as me, but woe betide any poor public sector chap who seeks a decent living, doing the same stuff, eh...?

Circumstances alter cases, of course, and it's often difficult to compare work done routinely with the forensic examination carried out by Specialists. In many cases, employers will bring in an outsider to "recommend" unpopular cuts, so that nobody inside the Company need suffer the opprobrium.

There is also the useful human propensity to believe that if you pay more, you get more.

US WITH 1.7% GROWTH WITH THE UK ON 0.2% GROWTH. SUMS IT ALL UP VERY WELL TO ME.

So our economy gets worst while the US economy get 1.7% growth. Here is a up date of Gideon's economy how well do you think he is doing? funny but Gideon's own data does not back his view its working. in my own view it would take 30 years for his plan to work. not 5 years. so if you can hang on for 30 years and we the UK people let him we may find out if it will work. me...I think he is all washed up with 3 years left for him to carry on borrowing with little or no growth at all.

Growth Forecast downgraded for the Fifth time by (OBR in November 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time by Bank of England 1.4% August 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to 1.7% (Budget 2011)
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by Ernst & Young from1.7% to 0.9% Jan 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time to by CBI to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by CBI to 0.9% Jan 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by I.M.F to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by I.M.F to 0.6% Jan 2012
Growth forecast in the Tory budget down for a 3rd time to 1.7% (Budget 2011
Growth forecast in the City as low as 1.2% 2011
Disposable income has seen its Sharpest fall in 30 years or 1980s (ONS)
GDP sluggish at just 0.5% for April 2011 (OBR)
GDP City Growth forecast for 2012 are 0.3% to 0.4% (FT Sept 2011)
G.D.P Growth for forecast set by bank of England at 2.0% 2010
GDP Contracted by 0.5% in the Q4 in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 0.8% lower than in November 2010 (OBR)
GDP IS 0.2% lower than MARCH 2011 (OBR)
GDP Growth Contracted by 0.5% Q4 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth April 2011 was Q1 0.5% (OBR)
GDP Growth July 2011 was just Q2 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth starts Jan Q1 2012 at just 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth December 2011 Contracted by 0.2% Q4 (OBR)
GDP April's figures have just clawed back last years 0.5% contraction in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 1.1% lower than the OBR thought it would be in Sept 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth is now lower than 1930s, 1970s, 1980s 1990s (OBR)
National Debt hits £1.03 Trillion for the first Time Jan 2012 (OBR)
Tory Party forecast National debt will fall by just £54 Billion by 2015 (Tory party website)
Government Borrowing forecast up by £54 Billion (Budget 2011)
Government Borrowing overshot in Q4 by £127 Billion (OBR)
Government Borrowing overshot in Jan 2012 by £157 Billion (ONS)
Government Borrowing topped the £10 billion by just Feb 2011 (OBR)
Government Borrowing to be £10 billion higher every year from 2012 (OBR)
Government Borrowing in Jan 2012 was £13.7 billion for December 2011 overshooting (OBR)
Private Pension Deficit £158 billion December 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension deficit up from £24.5 Billion to £31.7 Billion by Sept 2011 (ONS)
Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2011 was £75 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
Unemployment up to record 17 year high (ONS)
Unemployment record was set in 1981 at 2.6 million or 9.8% of the Workforce
Unemployment for woman rose for the 10th month in a row March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment increased by 20,000 the highest three month figure since Jan 1997 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 7.7% of economically active population March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment forecast in the budget set to rise to 8.1% in 2012 (Budget 2011)
Unemployment is was2.6 million in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 2.8 million in December 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Claimants increased by 12,400 in March 2011 to April 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Woman Claimants increased by 9,300 to 474,400 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Men Claimants increased by 3,100 to 994,200 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment 16-24 hit 1.043 million in Q3, the highest since records began in 1992. 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments rose by 1,200 to 1.6 million by December 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments up to 1980s levels (ONS)
Business failures in 2010 was 23,000 (ONS)
Business failures in 2011 was 20,900 or 6.5% (ONS)
Bankers Bonus for £14 billion for 2011 (FT & Guardian & BBC)
Manufacturing was flat Feb 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing production out put 1.5% decline in April 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing touted as the engine of the economy fall by 0.3% in July 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing jobless in Q4 2011 to Jan 2012 was up to 395,000
Exports fell in Jan 2011 (HMCR)
Exports Vs Imports increased by 14.7% in October 2011 (HMCR)
Factory gate prices rose 0.9% between February & March 2011 (ONS)
Factory gate prices rose at an annual rate of 5.3% in May 2011 (ONS)
Mortgage & Credit card debt will soar to £2,126 billion by 2015 (ONS)
Mortgage debt now accounts is around £21,000 per person April 2011 (ONS)
Home repossessions peak set in 1991 at 19,000 homes (council of mortgage lenders)
Home repossession forecast to rise to 45,000 in 2012 (council of mortgage lenders )
North sea Oil Tax up by £2 Billion for 2011, with HMCR taking 88% in Tax (ONS)
The Worst squeeze on living standards for 90 years
Consumer spending accounts for 65% of the UK economy April 2011 (OMS)
Consumer spending shows the biggest fell in total sales since the survey began in 1995 (KPMG)
Consumer spending has fallen by 1.7% for four consecutive Q in 2011. (ONS)
Personal Spending shows it first drop in personal spending power since the Thatcher slump in 1980s (KMPG)
Petrol down by 1p with VAT up by 2% in the Budget 2011
Petrol prices average increased by 52% up to March 2010
Food Prices rose 7.4% in the biggest rise since 2009 (ONS)
Food Prices rising at 4.9% rising faster than any other OECD IN Jan 2012 member (UBS & OECD)
CPI has put the cost of living double its target from 4% in Jan 2011 to 4.4% in April 2011
CP1 September 2011 rises by 5.2% (ONS)
CPI October 2011 fall by just 0.2% to 5.0% (ONS)
RPI has gone from 5.1% to 5.5% the highest since 1991 (ONS)
RPI Jan 2011 leapt to CPI 4% from 3.7% with Market Oracle putting real inflation at 6.6% 2012 .[b]

Ivan wrote:Cameron has been boasting because McDonald's are creating quite a few jobs in the UK. Does this mean that we're moving towards a 'Big Mac Society'??

BOBBY the way things are going with there economy this could be the only growth we see in 2012.

There is VERY much more to the British Economy than meets the eye. Yes, things are tough all over. Yes, small businesses are finding it harder to collect unpaid invoices. Yes, Bosses are paying themselves more than they are worth, and YES, many families are going to have less money next year.

BUT

Companies listed on the London Stock Exchange have paid their shareholders £68Billion in dividends during the past twelve months.

Money goes to money
Old Jewish saying.

£5 each, but to you £3
another old jewish saying.

bobby wrote:£5 each, but to you £3
another old jewish saying.

That is very good bobby, like it

What with manufacturing, construction and now the services all showing growth.
Could this be the start of the recovery?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16869870

Of course this news is bad news for Labour. For them a growing economy and people feeling better about the economy, will translate to less votes. But I often wonder if the sane people on the left really want to see economic failure and misery? If so I pity them and that view of politics.

Ah yes. "Green shoots".

Green was first shot in about 1992.

When it comes to political ideology, our Labour Party is very close to the Democrat Party of the United States, indeed as I stated in an earlier post, Mr Obama is following an economic path almost identical to that proposed by Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown in 2010.

There was more good economic news today from America, unemployment has fallen again from 8.5% to 8.3%, meanwhile UK unemployment continues to rise with all predictions saying it will continue upwards.

The US unemployment figures add to a growing list of data showing a gradual economic recovery in the United States, annual growth is also accelerating, all giving a real boost for Mr Obamas chances of re-election.

One of the key differences between the economic policies of the UK coalition and the US administration is the much slower and more gradual withdrawel of fiscal support to the economy, and the much less harsh cuts.

Meanwhile the UK sits on the very edge of another recession

This was the hypocrite George Osborne in 2007, pledging that a Tory government would not only match Labour's spending but increase it:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR_hfQU-4r0

Annalysts follow facts and figures and look for signs of economic activity, recession, growth, downturns, upturns and whether policies are working or not working.

It is a well know fact that a sure sign of economic gloom ahead is when banks lend less money, it must be a great disappointment then to many that bank lending is set to shrink in 2012, the dire prediction comes from Ernst & Young Item Club.

The last time bank lending contacted was towards the end of the recession back in 2009, at that time annalysts knew that the economy was well on the road to recovery, but unfortunately we got this coalition government and things are right back where they were 3 years ago.

Just as usual. Tory's break it, Labour fix it, only now the Tory's have got the help of the Lib-Dem Rat Bags and are breaking things even quicker.

Just as usual. Tory's break it, Labour fix it

Bobby that's hilarious, you should be on Tv mate...comedy genius

They couldn't afford my rates Blue.

Ah yes the economy and Browns careful stewardship!!!

PRUDENCE IS A LOVELY NAME - LIKE FAITH & HOPE & CHARITY
IT MEANS RESERVED & CAUTIOUS &TO PLAN AHEAD WITH CLARITY
THESE DAYS IT'S ZOES, BEAS & PIPS YOU HEAR ACROSS THE TOWN
BUT PRUDENCE WAS THE BOYHOOD LOVE OF DEAR OLD GORDON BROWN
HE TALKED ABOUT HER ALL THE TIME AS LOVESICK FELLOWS DO
AND ANYWHERE THAT GORDON WENT, HIS PRUDENCE WENT THERE TOO
THEY STAYED LIKE THIS FOR SEVERAL YEARS ENJOYING ALL THEIR GLORIES
OF POWER & HEALTH & LOADS OF WEALTH, BEQUEATHED TO THEM BY TORIES
AS GORDON GREW SO BIG & STRONG & GOT WHAT HE DESIRED
HIS ONE TIME NEED OF PRUDENCE WOULD NO LONGER BE REQUIRED
HE THREW HER OUT & CUT HER DEAD, AS THOUGH SHE'D NEVER BEEN
AND THEN WE SAW YOUNG SARAH WHO WAS COMING ON THE SCENE.

"HELL HATH NO FURY" SOMEONE SAID OF WOMEN WHO ARE SPURNED
AND PRUDENCE FELT THE VERY SAME - FOR NOW THE TABLES TURNED
SHE DISHED OUT SUB PRIME MORTGAGES & DIDN'T ASK FOR THANKS
SHE SOLD THE GOLD FOR SEVEN QUID & BROUGHT DOWN ALL THE BANKS
"HE'LL RUE THE DAY" SAID PRUDENCE "& HE'LL GET WHAT HE DESERVES"
AS FINALLY SHE BLEW AWAY OUR CURRENCY RESERVES
"HA HA" SAID SHE "HE'S MARRIED NOW - SO COSY WITH HIS WIFE
I'LL GET HIM SACKED & THAT'S A FACT, TO SLINK OFF BACK TO FIFE"
AND SO IT PROVED, THEY QUICKLY MOVED TO WINDY WET OBSCURITY
TO HUDDLE ROUND THE INGLE NOOK IN METHODIST SECURITY

SO WHAT OF PRUDENCE? SHE'S STILL HERE, HER LOVES HAVE BEEN IN VAIN
SHE'S HAD A LOT BESIDES THE SCOT IN GREECE & FRANCE & SPAIN
THEY'VE LET HER DOWN EACH ONE OF THEM AND NOW SHE IS ALONE
AND GLAD NOT SAD, DISMEMBERING THE GLOBAL EUROZONE

Certainly worth repetition, but SO OFTEN, tlttf?

Ivan wrote:When a Tory supporter like Fraser Nelson starts telling us that Osborne owes Alistair Darling "a generous apology", it certainly tells you who is wrong about the British economy:-
http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/7600308/osborne-owes-darling-an-apology.thtml

in my view Alistair Darling did a great job at the time of the world banking crisis. not that a Tory voter would agree with this at all. but then we should be thankful for Gideon I read in the Daily Mail. thankful for what?

I agree Stox. Darling is a clever man who was on the road to recovery with his slow slow measures that brought about a steady growth. All thrown away by Gideon for the price of Tory austerity ideology.

I am currently watching the BBC 5 Live Unemployment Debate

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17037692 Very good viewing

The tory MP is been torn to shreds, its embaressing that he has no answers, wont answer direct questions, cannot answer.

Tory MP's and especially Lansley, Gideon, and Camercon can be seen to be torn to shreds at times. It makes no difference whatsoever, they care not. Just happy to implement that that is good for their kind and nothing else matters. Scortched earth is their policy and they do it at the risk of losing at the next election, by which time they will not care a hoot as they will have fulfilled their dreams.

Mel....I guess it could be that Cameron and co would like to lose the next election and leave Labour to deal with a Sh*t ecomomy....the same as they usually leave for the Tories to deal with. Then we will be able to see how good Ed Millapede and Ed Testicles really are?

Saying that......if Cameron does want to stay in Power then he and Osbourne need to come up with another plan....now

Years ago a Tory Government (Chancellor Geoffrey Howe) imposed a "windfall tax" on Bank profits, at a time when interest rates were far higher than today's 0.5% Bank Rate.

If Gideon's looking for an urgent soft touch, he need look no further than the Gas and Electric Energy robber barons.

blueturando wrote Mel....I guess it could be that Cameron and co would like to lose the next election and leave Labour to deal with a Sh*t ecomomy....the same as they usually leave for the Tories to deal with. Then we will be able to see how good Ed Millapede and Ed Testicles really are?

Saying that......if Cameron does want to stay in Power then he and Osbourne need to come up with another plan....now


Hello my enigmatic friend. Herr Cameron doesn’t want to loose any election. How will the Tory filth get their ideological plans put in place by sitting on their hands on the opposition benches.

The figures are getting worse and worse every day, yet they will not divert unless forced from their damaging policies.

Even assuming you are right re them wanting to lose the next GE, wouldn’t that just go to show how irresponsible they are being, taking us down the road of destruction just to get rid of the responsibility of failure. So either way if they want to stay in power, they are too incompetent, and if they want to get out they will be totally irresponsible. Either way is not what Britain needs, but what you at the moment are supporting.

As for your last point, if they don’t come up with another plan soon, ideally one like the one Alistair Darling proved would and did work, will you continue giving your support, or carry on as is in the hope something may happen somewhere else to get us out of the crap, because as sure as eggs is eggs your Chosen Government ain got a clue as to how to do it, and they both stich to their statement, we will stick to our austerity measures.

I've just had a look up in the sky, and it is looking pretty good for this time of the year, no heavy snow, no hurricanes, no tsunami's, no heavy rain, so I guess, Herr Cameron and pratt boy Gideon are on their own.

Mel wrote:I agree Stox. Darling is a clever man who was on the road to recovery with his slow slow measures that brought about a steady growth. All thrown away by Gideon for the price of Tory austerity ideology.

I agree Mel, to me Darling was very clever and wise thinker about the economy. always liked the way he thought out his policy moves. God how we could do with him at the controls today Mel.

bobby wrote:blueturando wrote Mel....I guess it could be that Cameron and co would like to lose the next election and leave Labour to deal with a Sh*t ecomomy....the same as they usually leave for the Tories to deal with. Then we will be able to see how good Ed Millapede and Ed Testicles really are?

Saying that......if Cameron does want to stay in Power then he and Osbourne need to come up with another plan....now


Hello my enigmatic friend. Herr Cameron doesn’t want to loose any election. How will the Tory filth get their ideological plans put in place by sitting on their hands on the opposition benches.

The figures are getting worse and worse every day, yet they will not divert unless forced from their damaging policies.

Even assuming you are right re them wanting to lose the next GE, wouldn’t that just go to show how irresponsible they are being, taking us down the road of destruction just to get rid of the responsibility of failure. So either way if they want to stay in power, they are too incompetent, and if they want to get out they will be totally irresponsible. Either way is not what Britain needs, but what you at the moment are supporting.

As for your last point, if they don’t come up with another plan soon, ideally one like the one Alistair Darling proved would and did work, will you continue giving your support, or carry on as is in the hope something may happen somewhere else to get us out of the crap, because as sure as eggs is eggs your Chosen Government ain got a clue as to how to do it, and they both stich to their statement, we will stick to our austerity measures.

I've just had a look up in the sky, and it is looking pretty good for this time of the year, no heavy snow, no hurricanes, no tsunami's, no heavy rain, so I guess, Herr Cameron and pratt boy Gideon are on their own.

bobby
Full agree with what you have said Bobby. but did you see Gideon on the TV the day Mood'y gave it warning.....Not one person on the TV asked Gideon about the time he was on TV going quite hysterical about the S&P issued there warning in 2009 just like Moody's have done... nor did they pick him up when he said its so important to bring public sector borrowing down. not one persons asked him why he has already spent an extra £157 billion in over spend? nor that Moody's had given this banal Tory lead government this warning? nor did they point out that it was given as a warning to the governments for having deep fears over the GDP. funny how they forgot it all.

blueturando wrote Mel....I guess it could be that Cameron and co would like to lose the next election and leave Labour to deal with a Sh*t ecomomy....

Well now, even you blue have obviously come to the conclusion that Camer-con and Co are manufacturing a "shit economy". Now there is confidence for you and what a good reason for you continuing to make excuses for the barstewards.

Instant refresher-course:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3067563.stm

No-one has the whole answer. In an ideal and caring society Politicians would put aside their differences and work together to find an agreeable solution instead of sticking to party politics. We are fighting for the survival of our country as we know it. But our politicians are not that way inclined, unfortunately.
Any fool knows the NHS cannot be sustained as it is at the moment, into the future. We, the State, do not have the money to maintain it in its present form along with the other demands on State money - Emergency Services etc.
Any fool can see that the benefits system needs reforming, but not in a way that puts the poor at risk.
Any fool can see the Banking System needs reigning in, kicking up the backside and 'encouraged' to promote business lending..Though I do not believe in the European idea of a transaction tax.
Well, as an mp. I can. Ooops that should read 'as a muppet' I can.

Each party is adamant that it's policies are right. I believe each party is wrong. But then - what do I know?

Any fool should be able to see that Tory policy is to dismantle our NHS to make way for private companies to come in, cream off the most profitable sectors for what? for the good of patients? I think not, as profit will take precidence over service every time.

Any fool should be able to see that Tory policy is to dismantle the benefit system using media highlighted fraud type situations as an excuse. They are in the minority. Savings here instead of concentrating on employment and growth, will cover the ultimate objective to cut the top rate of tax for the better off.

as profit will take precidence over service every time.

Just like the Railway, Water, Electricity, Gas, our Building Societys (remember them?) Road and Highway "provision and maintenance"?


What are we all walking blindly into?

Mel wrote:Any fool should be able to see that Tory policy is to dismantle our NHS to make way for private companies to come in, cream off the most profitable sectors for what? for the good of patients? I think not, as profit will take precidence over service every time.

Any fool should be able to see that Tory policy is to dismantle the benefit system using media highlighted fraud type situations as an excuse. They are in the minority. Savings here instead of concentrating on employment and growth, will cover the ultimate objective to cut the top rate of tax for the better off.

Fair enough. Now where is the money coming from, now and in the future, to support all our Services? We've allowed the industry/services that we had to be sold off to foreign companies, or closed down. (During both Tory and Labour Parliaments). To resurrect most Industries now would be virtually impossible. Most of the world can produce goods far more cheaply than we can. We can stop imports or tax them, but this would followed by other countries taxing what we do export. If Europe goes into decline, so do our exports. Germany's exports have slowed down, and that for the Industrial heart of Europe. Economic growth in Germany is likely to be sustained by INTERNAL demand for some time.

Mel. I am not advocating Tory policy. I see both sides of the problem. There is much I don't like about what they are doing. I also have doubt about the alternative policies of the opposition. I don't have answers, and I seriously doubt anyone has the complete answer. I would love to go back to when the UK was prosperous. Those times are finished. We have lived too long in the shadow of past glory. Now its down-to-earth for us.

By the way. Having read my previous post I realise I was being deprecating in my choice of words. For that I apologise.

Now where is the money coming from

I am sure you know like the rest of us that the NHS could be run with much less money going to useless do nothing middle men!

The NHS is now being run like the coal, Steel, and all the old nationalised industry of the past.

People selling to the service have no mercy and demand/recieve over the top prices for the little value commodities they provide - ie light bulbs for £27 each, etc etc.
The politicians use the NHS as a dumping ground for the unemployed - admittedly that stroke is a little harder now where porters and groundsmen are concerned, but in the high and mighty vaults of the administration machine, no one knows WHAT the hell goes on!!

The new computer programmes that are being talked about, do not really do anything for you if on your back with morphine drips and all kinds of wires coming from you. They are only there for the vast number of unnecessary number-crunchers, parachuted in by successive governments. (Does the Gubmint not already have an office of statistics, give them the effin' job iffin' it's so necessary!)

Here in Washington, the Ambulances are refuelled by the most EXPENSIVE retailer in the area!! I don't CARE what the amount per gallon/litre is in the contract, their (our) fuel JUST HAS to be cheaper where I go about 3 miles out of town!

Most of the world can produce goods far more cheaply than we can.

If you care to remember, one of the British selling points was QUALITY! The witch did away with that ethic when in Heath's administration and products were made "Good Enough" THAT was the downfall of our industry. Even in 1984, nowhere in the world could produce NAVAL BRASS to the quality of Vickers Armstrong, Scotswood Road Newcastle.

The idea that Politicians could make common cause in the interests of the Nation had its moment in 1939, but the current "blame culture" makes a repetition of that unlikely.

We shall always need an Opposition to keep the others relatively honest.

We shall always need an Opposition to keep the others relatively honest.

Never thought of that. Always thought it was the fact that the pantomime needs heroes and villains.

One thing, the pantomime been running longer than 'The Mouse Trap', although the cast has often changed.