Do the Tories have anything to offer us other than myths and lies?

First topic message reminder :

We were warned two years ago that Cameron is an obnoxious and loathsome individual, but not enough people were listening:-
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/02/04/david-cameron-what-the-experts-say-115875-22017276/

After three years of LYING through his back teeth its a wonder his tongue had not fallen out, it is the most experienced part of his anatomy because nothing else works. :yeahthat:

Redflag wrote:After three years of LYING through his back teeth its a wonder his tongue had not fallen out, it is the most experienced part of his anatomy because nothing else works. :yeahthat:

Didn't think the Tory liar talked through his mouth. More like his backside!

(From the Bush era): How can you tell when a politician is lying?

His lips are moving.

" His lips are moving"

Or he's wearing a blue rosette...

LWS wrote:Didn't think the Tory liar talked through his mouth. More like his backside!

Every time any Tory opens their gobs it's just to spout more BLATANT LIES LWS. :yeahthat:

Tory distraction techniques - while the NHS is being sold to Tory donors, people are encouraged to worry about other issues, such as possible immigrants from Bulgaria.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bc6z79zCAAALfjS.jpg

I am a great believer in the notion that it is the Opposition which should ensure the public's attention is drawn to such underhand activities.

So, it's over to you Ed, old boy....GET ON WITH IT...!!!

Do not worry PH this will be the year that Ed Miliband and the Labour party unleash all the Tories LIES & Spin and replace it with the Labour parties TRUTH about what is really happening under the Tories & Lib-Dems, it could also be the year that the people of the UK find their voice and give it to Davy boy & Cleggy right between the eyes. 

Over the festive period we renewed acquaintance with an established family friend who may well be typical of so many salt-of-the-earth British people who just get on with their lives in spite of unhelpful government.  This lady is a single parent but claims no welfare support of any kind.  She explains that she wouldn't give them the satisfaction of seeing her "beg" so does three separate jobs.

Unfortunately she may well be representative of many such, who see no point in exercising her right to vote.

There should be special penalties for those who deny this rabid government the fun of seeing deserving people grovel.

What a bunch of spoilsports those 'never-say-die' folk are...    

In part of an article in today's Daily Mail, Gove included the following statement......

"as a misbegotten shambles – a series of catastrophic mistakes perpetrated by an out-of-touch elite".

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2532923/Michael-Gove-blasts-Blackadder-myths-First-World-War-spread-television-sit-coms-left-wing-academics.html#ixzz2pLkGO1bZ

At first I thought he had summed up the last four years of this Tory led Coalition Government but then I remembered the article was just him trying to re-write the History of the First World War in his piece about how 'left-wingers' had always denigrated the sacrifices of the troops during that conflict .....

Those of a nervous disposition may wish to stop reading now....

Governments tell lies!

There! Could you believe it? Well you can now, because the Cabinet Papers from Thatcher's war on coal-miners are in the Public Domain. Scargill was not wholly correct in alleging that the Government intended to close seventy pits - which they strongly denied whenever challenged. Evidently the number was 75.

Don't it make yer feel proud to be British?

The intended closure of the 75 pits was taken SIX MONTHS before the miners strike OW, and that proves the miners were in the right to go on strike to save their jobs. :yeahthat:

Things might have turned our rather differently for the miners in 1984 if we had enjoyed the benefit of an Edward Snowden at the time, to publish government dirty tricks in The Guardian.

http://edward-snowden.net/a-guardian-guide-to-us-government-whistleblowers/

Although I recognised that she was an evil women who wrecked the UK, I thought that the bitch Thatcher had some integrity and had the courage of her conviction. This proves that she had neither of those two qualities. I hope she rots in hell the liar!

Thatcher  : just another Tory ego-tripper and cruel, dishonest maniac...

Phil Hornby wrote:Thatcher  : just another Tory ego-tripper and cruel, dishonest maniac...

You got her character spot on PH, with what we have got now there is no EFFING difference Davy boy is definitely son of Thatcher  :yeahthat: 

I have to say that I disagree with quite a bit here. I hated Thatcher's policies - they came within a whisker of putting my family out on the street - but love her or hate her she was a brilliant politician. The only other PM who was as manipulative and devious as she was, was IMO Harold Wilson. If she and Harold were lions then Cameron is merely a weasel.

As for the miners. It was their misfortune to come up against an ideologue with determination and intellect at a time when they were lead by a totally inept and stupid man, Scargill. He was a total lightweight in comparison who got the tactics and the timing so utterly wrong that one might almost believe that he was the tories man on the inside !

For the miners it probably was about pit closures but not for Scargill. He wanted to bring down a government as had happened before. Did he think the Tories were not aware of this? Did he think that they would not prepare - and now we know how far they were prepared to go - she considered using the army? Did he think she was another bumbler like Ted Heath? The miners were not betrayed by Thatcher. To her they were an enemy to be defeated. They were betrayed by Scargill. As someone reminded me from elsewhere when describing the first world war and the courage of the men at the front - Lions lead by Donkeys. That also sums up Scargill and the miners who followed him. He sacrificed them on the altar of his political ambition and ego. Worst of all he failed.

So is Cameron another Thatcher? Not in my opinion. He is neither that clever nor that committed. She may have been wrong headed but at least she stood by her policies. Cameron would sell his mother for another vote.

People seem surprised by the revelation about the pit closures. Why? Is it really so surprising that they had an agenda and, because they thought it was sensitive, they did not reveal it? Surely that is the nature of politics? It was undoubtedly part of a long range strategy. Though numbers were being bandied about 6 months before I would be a fiver that the principle went back far further than that. I find it hard to believe that Cameron HAS any principles let alone ones that he is working on over time. The only principle he has seems to be 'Keep the money coming in for my mates'

If being manipulative earns points for being a brilliant politician , we might as well all become latter-day fans of Adolph Hitler.

 The more we find out about that hateful woman the more we are entitled to feel that Thatcher was a monster whose only interest was her reputation within the Tory Party as some kind of heroine .

 To have sought - as she did- to paint herself as a patriot, is an insult to those who have genuinely put Britain's interests above their own. Take several hundred service personnel in the last 20 years for a start. The self-satisfied cow was not fit to lick their boots...

The past is another Country. They did things differently there, and besides, the bitch is dead.

Dealing with the here and now, the Tories aided by Quisling Lib-Dems have surely dug themselves a pit of unpopularity from which they cannot easily acquire enough votes to be re-elected.

Logic suggests a shoo-in for Labour at the next election, but what's logical about Politics?

That pit you talk of OW is getting bigger by the week the more people Davy boy hurts with his cuts the more people will vow not to vote Tory, not just in the 2015 general election but they will remember this and pass it on to their family for many years to come. :yeahthat:

The more Thatcher hid her lies the madder her eyes became. The same was true of Blair whose Catholicism must have forgiven him anew every day, but even so his eyes showed him for the sinner he knew himself to be.

Does Herr Cameron take responsibility for all the unrest wee Willie has seeded abroad, or the suffering that IDS and Gideon have shafted onto the poor, the weak, and the disabled people of the UK? Where is the spokesperson needed to bring honesty to politics?

It is tempting to wonder if the Tory press has muzzled Milliband, rather than have to consider that he is too much a mouse to even try and expose the Tories for the cruel thieves that they are, as they change legislation to rob the poor and pay the rich and get away with it.

When democratic election of government fails The People, what is their alternative?

I guess the question for me is - if politics is about lies and manipulation, is politics the way to run a democracy?

Certainly, the use of lies, spin and other forms of manipulation seems to militate against providing good public service and generally serving the needs of the electorate - which I venture to suppose is the reason why we have government at all?

oftenwrong wrote:When democratic election of government fails The People, what is their alternative?

The alternative is the same as the French did in 1769 OW, bring in the GUILLOTINE  :yeahthat: 

The French Revolution caused all sorts of crazies to emerge from the woodwork, at a time when there was no single language used all over France, the Paris Commune was virtually self-appointed and the Rule of Law was not fully accepted for several years.
It was a time of survival-of-the-fittest (or the lucky) and a lot of old scores were settled.

Any comparable event in e.g. London would immediately disunite the United Kingdom and invite loony Fascist vigilantes to seize control of the streets.

Not at all like the homelife at Downton Abbey, Redflag.

From what I have read in the history books OW it seemed to me the "lah-de-dah" society of France got what they asked for Guillotined, another thing the French have is not having to keep a royal family which must be saving them money. But things in France today are fine they have a democracy after there crazy period, if we in the UK have a general strike that would bring out some of our crazies but there is enough sensible people to put things back the way they should be "TORY FREE" for us and all our ancestors who come along. 

Interesting that anybody believes life in France is hunkydory at the moment, weird world innit.

Dunno, have you been to France lately?

If so, maybe you would favour us with your observations? With some evidence of course

Redflag was comparing pre-1789 France, when the rich paid no tax while the starving poor even had to pay tax on salt, with democratic 21st century France, but you can’t expect tlttf to worry about such details and pass off the chance to :-
1. Attempt to deflect this thread away from all the Tory myths and lies which abound.
2. Imply, as he has done previously, that all of France’s problems stem from the last twenty months under Hollande (and maybe the wicked EU as well), not the seventeen years (1995-2012) of right-wing rule under Chirac and Sarkozy.

Yes, the French lost their AAA rating last year, something they now have in common with us. (Remember how George Osborne wanted to be judged on keeping that?) However, France's economy gained momentum towards the end of 2013 and was likely to post growth of 0.5% on the final quarter.

http://www.dw.de/france-to-turn-corner-on-growth-in-final-quarter-of-2013/a-17354400

tlttf wrote:Interesting that anybody believes life in France is hunkydory at the moment, weird world innit.

At least the French gov't are making the rich pay their fair share of the banking problems unlike the shower of Dick Heads we have governing us here in the UK, and as per norm the rich and wealthy are EFFING off to Russia & London where they even get tax breaks from our HMRC in London.  

I would suppose tittf that you think this shower we have are doing a SPIFFING job of our Economy, maybe the 1% at the top of the tree are but the other 99% are PAYING a VERY HIGH PRICE Come May 2015 I just hope the Tories & Lib-Dems will be willing to pay the high price the same 99% will extract from them in May 2015. :yeahthat:

There is a children's story about mice who feared the household cat, and decided they should put a bell around it's neck, so that they would have time to scamper away. The flaw in that argument was that no mouse wanted to put the bell on the cat.

We have a similar problem with the Tory Cat - who is strong enough to deal with it?

(dailymail)

" Ok, I'm ready - show me that cat..."

Going by the title of this thread the only thing the Tories will offer the people after May 2015 if they are re-elected in 2015 is the end of society and the rise of the WORKHOUSES :yeahthat:

Just how near to the actual truth your post is Ivan is bloody frightening, if you where any nearer I would swear you had an inside source.   What worries me is if the good people of the UK are taken in by SLICK Davy boy and his DOWNRIGHT EFFING LIES, as I have said before if I thought England would vote Tory in the 2015 general election I WOULD vote Yes in Scotlands referendum, at least with the referendum that would be a leap in the dark but England voting Tory in 2015 I have a good idea what would happen Workhouses NO NHS No Welfare an worst of all NO SOCIETY.  :yeahthat: 

Chris Grayling: the compulsive liar at the heart of government

(This blog dates from 2012, but nothing much has changed.)

http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/04/13/chris-grayling-the-compulsive-liar-at-the-heart-of-government/

“The Tories have resorted to statistical chicanery that would make even Iain Duncan Smith blush.” (George Eaton)

The BBC news this morning would have made even the North Koreans blush for its blatant government propaganda. In addition to the daily scare story about the NHS - part of the plan to soften us up for total privatisation of our most cherished institution - there was Cameron’s appeal to manufacturers to bring their businesses back to the UK now that he’s screwed wages down to below subsistence levels. But the first story – the details of which weren’t challenged by the BBC – was that wages rose faster than inflation for 90% of us last year, with only the richest 10% taking a fall in income.

If it hadn’t been so chilling to hear such claptrap from our so-called ‘impartial’ national broadcaster, I might have fallen off my chair laughing. For the first time since 2010, I can now see the possibility of this nightmare regime staying in power beyond next year. With most of the press, the Tory Party’s corporate backers and now the once respected BBC singing the Tory tune, how can the average voter resist so much brainwashing?   

‘The Daily Mail’ was right up there to spread the falsehood. How fortunate we are that no moronic asshole was able to drop in here at 6am to pollute this forum with such filth, accompanied no doubt by some fatuous remark. “Official analysis showed that wages rose faster than inflation for 90% of people last year” was the headline, I understand, and if ‘The Daily Mail’ says something, it has to be true, doesn’t it?   

Maybe not. The data used by the Tories excludes mortgage interest payments or changes to the benefits system, including changes to in-work benefits, tax credits and child benefit. According to the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), it’s those on low incomes who are now feeling the squeeze because of changes to social security payments and who will continue to be the hardest hit as ‘reforms’ (for want of a better word) take effect in the next few years. The IFS has consistently shown that almost all families are worse off once all tax and benefit changes are taken into account. The very idea that 90% of us are better off, when half a million people received three days emergency food assistance from a Trussell Trust food bank between April and December 2013, is just absurd.

In an article in ‘The Times’, Tory minister Matthew Hancock shows himself to be so out of touch that he describes the cost of living crisis as “a mirage”. In an attempt to present austerity as progressive, Hancock notes that his chosen figures show that disposable income did not rise for the richest 10%, conveniently forgetting that the Tories cut the top rate of tax from 50p to 45p in April 2013, handing an average tax cut of £107,500 to the UK's 8,000 income millionaires. George Eaton says: “The irony is that the one month since 2010 when average earnings rose faster than prices was April 2013 (which the figures used by the Tories conveniently include), when high earners collected the bonuses they deferred in order to benefit from the reduction in the top rate.”

The Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings (ASHE), on which the Tories are basing their calculations, also excludes those who are self-employed in its calculation, yet they account for 14% of the workforce. The economist Jonathan Portes has pointed out that these Tory calculations are based on weekly rather than annual earnings, whereas tax liabilities are calculated annually. Meanwhile, the latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures show that in the last quarter, total pay growth was 0.9%, while inflation is 2%, so most people are still becoming poorer. Paul Johnson, director of the IFS, said: “If you’re looking at the whole of household income, by 2015 incomes won’t have recovered their 2010 or 2008 levels.” Eaton concludes: “Is trying to convince voters who are worse off that they're actually better off really smart politics? Rather than trying to fix the figures to justify their policies, the Tories would be wise to fix their policies to change the figures.”

Sources used:-

http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/01/the-coalitions-cost-of-living-sleight-of-hand/

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/01/tories-claim-living-standards-have-risen-nonsense-stilts

" the latest Office for National Statistics (ONS) figures show .... " The ONS always issues a health-warning about its figures being subject to revision as more data becomes available to them.

IVAN I do not know if you listen to Radio 5 Thursday nights 10.00pm to 1.00am QT extra time, a man phoned in last Thursday night to tell of his experience at his local job centre plus, after 4 weeks on JSA he was sent back to college for English & Maths training he did not need either he has good GSCE in both subjects from his time at school.  What he did say was half of his class at college were sanctioned by JCP for no apparent reason, they were attending college doing what this Incompetent gov't told them, while a person is sanctioned they do not appear on the unemployment list, this is how Davy boy is getting his unemployment figures down so that he can "PULL THE WOOL OVER THE PUBLIC'S EYES" and boast to the voters he is the man for the job of sorting out the UKs problems.

In your earlier post Ivan you said it would make IBS blush, sorry but when you have a "SWINGING BRICK" in place of a heart I doubt you can blush.