How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

by Greatest I am Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

Please ignore that I do not believe in any invisible entity. I would like this thread to be about you.
I also have rejected the notion of anything being able to breach the limits of nature and physics.
No miracles allowed in my theology.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV2VjdpVonY

If you do not follow your religion because of culture and tradition, when did you begin to be a believer?

Can you describe how you were made to believe in fantasy or imaginary creatures?

Were you an adult at that time or a child?

If a child, could this real phenomena be what caused you to believe?

http://academia.edu/503195/_Princess_Alice_is_watching_you_Childrens_belief_in_an_invisible_person_inhibits_cheating

Regards
DL

by stuart torr Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:39 pm

Will look out for you, take care

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:42 am

polyglide wrote:Man has made all the different religions, not God.

Where there just the one true religion there would be no problems at all.

You're almost there only you don't realise it. It's a tiny step from there to reality. All religions are man made and there is no god. Seeeeemples.......

by stuart torr Thu May 14, 2015 4:13 pm

Now if only everyone realised that Sheldon, life on earth would be nice and peaceful would it not? no wars or arguments, because they are mainly caused by religion are they not.

by polyglide Fri May 15, 2015 3:19 pm

Greatest I am,
I have already clearly stated how and why I beleive in spirit creatures.

Firstly I believe in God and as far as I am concerned God is a spirit creature [the only terms I can think of] and according to my belief he created millions of other spirit creatures.

My belief started when I was a few years old, this was based on the church which my mother attended.

I was terrified by the paster[ Paster Hughes, whose New Testament I still have, I have not got it with me but I think it is dated 1945] he told me if I was not a good boy I would burn in hell etc; etc;

The church dealt in tounges etc; and at the time I accepted what I was told.

However, when I actually ventured into the real world I looked into the alternatives to what I had been told.

My main concern being how everything actually came about and for what purpose.

I could not accept that there was no meaning to life or that it came about by chance.

I became aware of most of the different religions and the one I found to be the most significant regarding all that was involved was the one of the Bible.

Since that time my faith has indeed been strenghthened on numerous occasions, I am aware of coincidence but there are limits.

As for not being spirit creatures, just take up the challenge I offered another disbeliever, get a Quija Board and assemble 5 other people you can realy trust and have several seances and I bet you will change both your mind and that of the others.

by stuart torr Fri May 15, 2015 3:37 pm

by polyglide Fri May 15, 2015 3:40 pm

Stu,
A reasonable and sensible answer for a change would be good.

by stuart torr Fri May 15, 2015 3:52 pm

Polyglide I have answered your posts regarding oiuja boards and the like and you did not like those either, because imo they are false.

by polyglide Fri May 15, 2015 4:04 pm

Stu,
That is not the point, it is only your opinion based on nothing more than your opinion.

Tell me how you can prove there are no spirit world.

I say there is, you prove otherwise, I have told you how to deal with them if you are silly enough to try.

by stuart torr Fri May 15, 2015 4:20 pm

Difference of opinion end of story.

by polyglide Fri May 15, 2015 4:53 pm

Stu,
Yep and that applies to many things Stu, I just wonder what it would be like if everyone thought exactly the same.

regards.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat May 16, 2015 3:27 am

polyglide wrote:My main concern being how everything actually came about and for what purpose. I could not accept that there was no meaning to life or that it came about by chance.

This isn't a question that has to be limited to just two answers, as I've already pointed out quite a few times already, just because there is no evidence to support the Christian story of genesis, or indeed any other creation myth, that does not mean life came about purely by chance. Leaving that aside the phrase "I could not accept" seems to be basing your conclusion that chance played no part in abiogenisis on your own personal preference rather than any real evidence. Again I and others have pointed out that just because abiogenesis may have involved chance doesn't mean human life has no purpose, we give our own lives purpose and meaning, and I need no god or religion for this.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat May 16, 2015 3:31 am

polyglide wrote:Stu,
A reasonable and sensible answer for a change would be good.

To be fair you don't respond in kind when ever others give reasoned and lengthy responses to your posts if they don't say what you want to hear, so you bring this kind of thing on yourself. However I'll have another go, and point out again that your ouija board claims are for you to evidence, not for others to waste their time on. If you can produce tangible evidence then do so, but simply challenging others to do the research for you is silly. Wooden boards don't have supernatural powers, the very idea is absurd.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat May 16, 2015 3:34 am

polyglide wrote:Stu, That is not the point, it is only your opinion based on nothing more than your opinion. Tell me how you can prove there are no spirit world. I say there is, you prove otherwise, I have told you how to deal with them if you are silly enough to try.

You're trying to reverse the burden of proof again, if someone insisted mermaids existed, and claimed it was for you to disprove the claim would you consider their existence proven or the claim absurd?

Your claim is un-evidenced, hugely implausible, and the best you can do to explain why your claim is valid and yet has gone unnoticed by the world is to challenge those who reject it to prove it for you. It simply won't do I'm afriad, and no amount of repeating this silly challenge will make the claims any less absurd.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat May 16, 2015 3:37 am

stuart torr wrote:Difference of opinion end of story.

Not really stu, you haven't offered an opinion, you've just rejected one that isn't evidenced at all, and is wildly implausible. The opinion was Polyglide's of course.

by polyglide Sat May 16, 2015 3:22 pm

HI Stu,
Trust you are feeling better.

regards.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue May 26, 2015 1:24 pm

GIA wrote: How are adults talked into believing in fantasy creatures, miracles and magic?

"The plain consequence is....that no testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous than the fact which it endeavours to establish."

David Hume

by stuart torr Tue May 26, 2015 1:50 pm

Oh so true David Hume,10/10.

by polyglide Fri May 29, 2015 2:22 pm

Stu,
There appears a total lack of understanding of the difference between a fantacy creature, miracles and magic.

Magic is being able to fool by slight of hand, to put it in simple terms, fantacy creatures are purely man made imaginary creations,
miracles are the result of God using his powers to carry out a certain task.

Those who think miracles cannot occur should research the experiences of those who do believe.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Fri May 29, 2015 6:48 pm

polyglide wrote:Stu,
There appears a total lack of understanding of the difference between a fantacy creature, miracles and magic. Magic is being able to fool by slight of hand, to put it in simple terms, fantacy creatures are purely man made imaginary creations,
miracles are the result of God using his powers to carry out a certain task. Those who think miracles cannot occur should research the experiences of those who do believe.

Nope that's illusion, magic has a very different meaning, and the bible is full of claims that people performed actual magic, like Moses before the Egyptian Pharaoh. What the hell is fantacy (sic)? Do you perhaps mean fantasy? There has never been a claim for a miracle that stood up to proper scrutiny, and only a complete moron would fail to notice that the number of miracles has diminished exponentially in line with advance of human knowledge through scientific discovery. Do you even understand the logical claim that Hume used and I quoted? I seriously doubt you do given your response.

by polyglide Sat May 30, 2015 10:50 am

Stu,
Stu, do not be mislead, a miracle is something that cannot be explained by science or anything else other than an act of God.

A fantasy is just that, a made up creation often for fun or amusement and has nothing to do with religion.

Miracles are no longer of any consequence as there are enough examples to support that they are a fact and were used at a time when present information and predictions were not in evidence, these things are no longer relevant as the Bible says, no more crying etc;

Of course if God is approached in a particular situation that does not go against the agreement with Satan God can and will perform miracles.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat May 30, 2015 2:12 pm

polyglide wrote:Stu,
Stu, do not be mislead, a miracle is something that cannot be explained by science or anything else other than an act of God.

Science doesn't try to explain this claptrap because it is not evidenced at all, and makes supernatural claims, science can certainly comment on the effects of so called miracles if they defy known scientific laws and theories.

Polyglide wrote:A fantasy is just that, a made up creation often for fun or amusement and has nothing to do with religion.

Region is the very definition of a fantasy, nor do fantasies have to be for fun, but they are often manufactured with ulterior motives just like religions have been throughout human history.

Polyglide wrote: Miracles are no longer of any consequence as there are enough examples to support that they are a fact and were used at a time when present information and predictions were not in evidence, these things are no longer relevant as the Bible says, no more crying etc;

They are relevant only as they show the ignorant superstitious mindset that created your religion. The claims have never ever stood up to even cursory scrutiny and are entirely unevidenced beyond anecdotal and subjective claims by believers, and they speak for themselves.

Polyglide wrote:Of course if God is approached in a particular situation that does not go against the agreement with Satan God can and will perform miracles.

So a benevolent deity makes agreements with a being whose sole purpose is to perpetrate evil, when it has omnipotence and need not allow any of it, yet is also claimed to be benevolent, what utter nonsense. It's irrelevant anyway as your claims are made without a shred of tangible evidence and so can be summarily dismissed as per Hitchen's razor.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat May 30, 2015 2:14 pm

I notice Polyglide ignored my point about magic being claimed in his bible. You really are incapable of making an honest reply to any point. I also notice he raises no real objection or even acknowledges the point I made about the number of miracles being reported dropping exponentially as science has advanced human knowledge, I think any objective person can see what that means.

by stuart torr Sat May 30, 2015 2:35 pm

We know why Sheldon do we not? but it takes others longer to understand i'm afraid.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat May 30, 2015 2:48 pm

stuart torr wrote:We know why Sheldon do we not? but it takes others longer to understand i'm afraid.

His behaviour is appalling stu, he doesn't want to respond to any criticisms of his beliefs, but wants to breeze in here every few days and preach another sermon. I don't care that he ignores the points I and others make, or that he has no answers as this just shows he's basing his beliefs on outright denial of facts. Anyone in the 21st century who had access to an education and then tries to claim Darwinian evolution is refuted by evidence, or worse, lie that there are as many scientists who reject it as accept it as fact, I have very little time for as they are clearly incapable of honest intelligent discussion. I do worry that such people may have influence through their religion and church over the young and impressionable, and of the harm such idiocy could do their education.

He has actually lied in the other thread claiming he has just now become aware of your illness and said he won't respond to me because of it, even though he knew about it from one of your posts on the 15th May which he responded to the same day. I have quoted and linked both posts as there is nothing I despise more than self righteous pretence of this kind.

I hope you'll accept my apology for it stu, as though you'd made it clear to everyone that you're ill I think it was appalling of him to involve your illness in another of his petty insults towards me like that, and use it to pretend it was the reason he was ignoring my posts. Posts he has responded to elsewhere at that.

by stuart torr Sat May 30, 2015 3:08 pm

Do not worry too much about my illness Sheldon,until a couple of weeks time when I know how long i've got left on this murky planet,then I will still keep my sense of humour anyway I am only having painkillers no chemo until the pain gets unbearable,then it will be just palliative mate.
You know it does not feel any different when you wake up knowing that you are going to die,just strange if you know what I mean.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Sat May 30, 2015 3:12 pm

Again you have my sympathies stu, I am glad that you have come to terms with it at least. I hope the time you have left is all the more precious, and you get to spend as much of it as possible with your little girl. Have you told Anthony and Anita on the other site? I'm sure they'd like to hear from you.

by stuart torr Sat May 30, 2015 3:32 pm

Have not been on there for ages and ages mate, will have to pop in and say hi to them both thanks for letting me know that you have told them both.

by polyglide Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:30 pm

Hi Stu,
Glad to see you are still having a go.

What a pity Dr, Sheldon cannot understand the basic principles of Christianity and yet pontificates as though he is an expert at everything.

He just cannot grasp the significance of the dispute between Satan and God.

Even a child could understand that if an agreement is made and rules apply, those concerned have to abide by the rules.

Satan challenged God, God could have just killed him off but took up the challenge and the Bible explains the terms involved.

This has nothing to do with Dr, Sheldon's only word he appears to know, OMNIPOTENCE, he knows the word but has a total lack of it's meaning when relating to God.

by stuart torr Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:09 pm

If god could have just killed satan off would that not have stopped all the badness and evil in the world full stop then there would be no need for religion at all would there?
aLSO THE BIBLE IS SO FALSE AND FULL OF RUBBISH IT IS A WASTE OF TIME.

by polyglide Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:28 pm

Stu,
I can assure you I find the Old Testament a bit of a problem for many reasons, however, just as a person from 200 years ago would not understand the present world with all the technology etc; we cannot understand the situation at the times the Bible was written.

When I consider a problem relative to the scriptures I think if the contents were meant to deceive one into believing in a loving God, then those responsible would not put anything in writing to make one think otherwise, everything would be sweet as honey but the scriptures are not and I feel this gives more evidence that they are a true record of events at the time in question.

I, even were I not Cristian, could never accept that all plant and animal life came about by chance, it does not make sense.

regards.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:46 pm

polyglide wrote:Hi Stu,
Glad to see you are still having a go.

What a pity Dr, Sheldon cannot understand the basic principles of Christianity and yet pontificates as though he is an expert at everything.

He just cannot grasp the significance of the dispute between Satan and God.

Even a child could understand that if an agreement is made and rules apply, those concerned have to abide by the rules.

Satan challenged God, God could have just killed him off but took up the challenge and the Bible explains the terms involved.

This has nothing to do with Dr, Sheldon's only word he appears to know, OMNIPOTENCE, he knows the word but has a total lack of it's meaning when relating to God.

My understanding of your bizarre satanic conspiracy is a moot point as you can't evidence it all. If you're going to claim I don't understand omnipotence then you'd best not contradict it's definition in the very same post by implying a being with it has no choice but one. The fact you can't see this idicates it is you who doesn't understand it's meaning, the significance of that meaning when applied to a deity, or the innate contradiction of then limiting that deities choices in any way at all.

If God is allowing evil and ubiquitous suffering then regardless of the claimed reason that God would not be benevolent by any definition.

If alternatively as you claim here god is bound by an agreement then he's not omnipotent. Your insults are yet again self defeating as your posts simply show the complexit of theodicy is completely beyond you.

by polyglide Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:03 pm

Dr, Sheldon,
An omnipotent being is not bound by anything even choice of wether to or not, it is you who have no idea of the meaning of words, sad, very very sad.

by stuart torr Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:27 pm

Polyglide, Omnipotent= Almighty=not limited in power,or authority. Which means that he is not bound by any rules or agreements. It is yourself that does not understand the meaning of the word not Sheldon,try again.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:41 pm

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
An omnipotent being is not bound by anything even choice of wether to or not, it is you who have no idea of the meaning of words, sad, very very sad.

Polyglide wrote:He just cannot grasp the significance of the dispute between Satan and God. Even a child could understand that if an agreement is made and rules apply, those concerned have to abide by the rules. Satan challenged God,

I swear it's like trying to teach a monkey to use a smartphone. sarcasm

Now how about an honest answer this time Polyglide, which of those mutually exclusive claims in your posts that I highlighted in blue is correct? Is got not bound by anything, or does he have to abide by something? Dear oh dear.....

He'll probably change tack again now, and portray it as a choice that god makes, like a cat hopping from one hot brick to another and never understanding why it's burning its paws. It's pitiful to watch.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:44 pm

stuart torr wrote:Polyglide, Omnipotent= Almighty=not limited in power,or authority. Which means that he is not bound by any rules or agreements. It is yourself that does not understand the meaning of the word not Sheldon,try again.

Stu he's just a lost cause, it's worth the small amount of time to show the corrosive effect on even such a limited intellect of blinkered dogmatic faith, he has already claimed on here to be 100% certain without a hint of irony and with no understanding of how silly it is to claim to be an expert in debating and then make such an own goal with such a ludicrous claim. The hubris with which he insults the ability of others to understand words when he clearly can't see the glaring contradiction in the very same post would be funny if it weren't so tragic.

by stuart torr Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:59 pm

I know Sheldon,he even sent me a private message to say he wished you understood the meaning of the word omnipotent, what a fixation this guy has for me it almost makes me want to throw up.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:47 pm

stuart torr wrote:I know Sheldon,he even sent me a private message to say he wished you understood the meaning of the word omnipotent, what a fixation this guy has for me it almost makes me want to throw up.

Well he contradicted himself above in the same post claiming that his deity was "not bound by anything," but then claiming in the next sentence that it "had to abide by the rules." It's hard not to laugh at someone when they then hurl abuse at anyone who disagrees with them constantly calling them stupid, but can't see the stupidity in that post Wink

by polyglide Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:49 am

Dr, Sheldon,
Before responding to a post would you please get someone to explain the implications.

For you to suggest that an omnipotent being is incapable of making decisions and unable to decide anything is totally stupid.

An omnipotent being has no limits which puts EVERYTHING within it's capabilities and also the option of which or all or none of the limits to use.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:59 am

polyglide wrote:Dr, Sheldon,
Before responding to a post would you please get someone to explain the implications.

For you to suggest that an omnipotent being is incapable of making decisions and unable to decide anything is totally stupid.

An omnipotent being has no limits which puts EVERYTHING within it's capabilities and also the option of which or all or none of the limits to use.

Drop the pompous insults, especially since your response shows yet again you can't read and understand even the most basic sentence.

You made two contradictory claims, namely that God was not bound by anything, and in the same post claimed he was bound to abide by an agreement with an evil demon he created.

The fact you can't see this isn't my fault. Get someone to explain it to you as I have no way to dumb it down beyond quoting the contradictory claims side by side emboldened in large blue letters. Are you seriously saying you don't understand why those claims are mutually exclusive?

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:03 pm

Polyglide wrote: For you to suggest that an omnipotent being is incapable of making decisions and unable to decide anything is totally stupid.

I never said this. So the stupidity rests yet again with your inability to understand the written word. Jesus wept this is tedious. Read the damn post properly and stop trying to pretend your intellectually superior as you're laughably out of your depth if you can't see the contradiction in making the two mutually exclusive claims in your post that I enlarged in blue letters.

by polyglide Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:44 am

DR, Sheldon,
The two references you enlarged in blue letters are not answered by your last post.

As usual you come up with some stupid reply.

An omnipotent can do anything, agree to an agreement and abide by it, by choice and nothing else.

You will have to learn to understand the implications involved and not try to seperate that which is involved.

It will take time as all your previous posts prove but I live in hope rather than expectation.

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