Can God love? (Part 2)

by snowyflake Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

The problem we have is that we can only think in our limited terms , we do not know of any process that covers the universe but if we did it would be just as simple as us explaining to a child how a toy was made etc

Depends on how much education you have, how bright you are and whether or not you are willing to learn things that are outside your comfort zone in the search for the truth. The universe and all that is in it is a complex place.

All the atoms that make up you were created in the stars. We are stardust, poly. Smile

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1999/06/990625080416.htm

by polyglide Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:28 am

Omnipotence means that God is all powerful along with all that that entails.

Why you are so certain no one but yourself understands anything is arrogance at it's most deplorable.

God's hands are tied at the present tme.

If you understand the Bible you will appreciate that the Devil at this time is at large and doing his utmost, and in your case successfully, to turn everyone against God.

This does not in any way conflict with my appreciation of the meaning and full understanding of omnipotence.

by Myth Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:02 pm

Being all powerful why doesn't this God just remove the Devil if he is such a pain in the neck?

It is well within a the capacity of an all powerful God

by Dan Fante Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:10 pm

What I want to know is, who has tied God's hands and how does PG know this? (even if it's just a metaphor the question's still valid).

by Shirina Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:04 pm

Without bothering to explain, I'm simply going to highlight these two statements. Most people will understand why.

polyglide wrote:God is all powerful

polyglide wrote:God's hands are tied

by stuart torr Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:10 pm

Very good Shirina and well spotted, Laughing

bit hard for God to do his so called work having both like they are. confused

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:25 pm

polyglide wrote:Omnipotence means that God is all powerful along with all that that entails.
cannot get something from nothing wrote:It means possessing limitless power, so claiming god's doing "all he can" after claiming god's omnipotent is the logic of an educated child.
Why you are so certain no one but yourself understands anything is arrogance at it's most deplorable.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Why do persist in lying? Show me one post where I have suggested anyone other than you doesn't understand omnipotence? As for arrogance, I'm not the one claiming to know absolute truths, that's you, oh dear.
God's hands are tied at the present tme.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Hilariously stupid claim after claiming to know what omnipotence means, you clearly have no idea what omnipotence means, it's LIMITLESS POWER, there is nothing such a being could not do, geddit? You're embarrassing yourself, seriously.
If you understand the Bible you will appreciate that the Devil at this time is at large and doing his utmost, and in your case successfully, to turn everyone against God.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:You mean if someone interprets it as you do, in a highly subjective way. It's just a book, and there is nothing in there that comes close to validating your claims. Most of it is puerile nonsense.
This does not in any way conflict with my appreciation of the meaning and full understanding of omnipotence.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:You have no grasp of the concept of omnipotence at all, esle how could you possibly suggest a being with omnipotence was "doing all he could at this time", the fact you can't see what an obvious paradox this is speaks volumes.

No being can logically be omnipotent by the way, as the claim itself contains some innate paradoxes. Free will goes out the window for a start, and a being with omnipotence could not use such power to limit it's own power, that's a paradox.

try this:

Could your god create a rock so heavy he himself could not lift it?

Whichever answer you give limits your god's power thus proving he cannot be omnipotent.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:32 pm

polyglide wrote:Wrong, wrong, I look at all the possibilities put forward and none can explain how the atom was created and that is the first consideration knowing that all things are made from atoms.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:So having no answer to a question validates an assumption based on a bronze age superstition, you've not really thought this through have you.
You said do not ask about where the Big Bang came from, the whole point is if the Big Bang is a fact then where did that which went Bang come from?.

We know from the atom bomb that the atom can be split, so it must have been put together.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:
Now if you consider that along with the whole of creation on earth and think it all came about by chance, not to mention the universe, then there are places that will take great care of you.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Incredible complexity comes from randomness given enough time and repetition, that's a mathematical certainty, you're really out of your depth here.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:38 pm

polyglide wrote:Two wrongs prove that they are both wrong, I know. I know, you are unable to comprehend the obvious and in live dream land but even you must at some time learn to understand the most simple logic as opposed to supposition and speculation.

With your obvious {in your opinion only] superior knowledge, then perhaps you, by all the methods you state, explain how the atom was formed and then how matter was created.

Not giving others opinions but in plain English, anything I believe in I can explain in terms even you [with your obvious limited reasoning] can follow.

Just the easy steps from nothing to something will do with the evidence to support it.

I have a very distinct feeling you are beyond any help.

Can God love? (Part 2) - Page 4 Too_stupid_to_understand_science_try_religion_tshirt-r342adcad0b564960b06b275ea72a9dc8_804gs_512

by stuart torr Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:46 pm

Hi Sheldon, been on the other forum. Laughing

had two arguments with spin and won them both. deadhorse

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:34 pm

stu wrote:Hi Sheldon, been on the other forum. had two arguments with spin and won them both.

Hi stu, posted on there in response to one of your posts, hope you are well.

by Bellatori Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:38 pm

God has hands...?! Smile

by stuart torr Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:43 pm

very well thanks Sheldon, hope all well at your homestead. I saw you rubbed it in even more. Laughing

by snowyflake Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:19 pm

polyglide wrote:If you understand the Bible you will appreciate that the Devil at this time is at large and doing his utmost, and in your case successfully, to turn everyone against God.

I understand the bible is a story book written 2000 years ago. Whatever is in it, is not relevant in today's world. We have grown as a society and this is no thanks to belief in god or jesus. And no thanks to religion of any kind.

As for your Christianity, you're about as Christian as my left butt. I haven't heard a kind word out of you since you started posting on this forum and your whole world view is doom and gloom and apocalypse and satan and demons. Do you realise how unhinged you sound?

Why are forum-Christians such putzes? The ones on the other forum are clones of this one and they all talk rubbish and then get the hump when logic rips their beliefs to shreds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YXINEYdnkY

Please watch this, polyglide and take a lesson from this young girl. She has the message of Jesus perfect. If all you Christians were like this, no one would mind one bit what you believed.

by polyglide Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:06 am

I have watched it previously when you pointed it out.

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

And there shall be no more death neither sorrow nor crying.

For the former things are passed away,neither shall there be any more pain.

Of course the Bible is not applicable in the terms some consider it in the present times, nothing today is the same as the time of the
Old Testament, those who wrote the words were human, God's
meanings communicated by man can be very different from the actual intention and in any case is totaly irrelevant to humans of today.

When Jesus was born, all prior to this event was made redundant, Jesus came to save the people who were willing to accept God and repent their sins.

That is the only obligation for manking today, the New Testamant being a means of assisting humans to understand the offer.

Being kind to idiots does not in any way help them, it is far better to tell the truth and hope they can learn from it.

by stuart torr Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:29 pm

DEBATE INSTEAD OF JUST QUOTING FROM THE BOOK THEN.

by polyglide Mon Nov 18, 2013 1:54 pm

I agree there are more things we do not understand than those we do.

I cannot understand the fact that there were dinosaurs, the largest of which I have heard of was 45 tons, roaming the earth.

There must be an explanation involved in creation and the when and how.

When it is said, in the beginning God created the earth, it does not imply that following the creation other entities have not been involved.

Time in the terms of the universe is of no consequence and beyond our understanding.

Just as we find that the most seemingly impossible problem has a very simple answer when we eventually find it, so will creation when God decides to let us know.

by Dan Fante Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:00 pm

God, the big tease that he is Laughing

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:55 pm

polyglide wrote:I agree there are more things we do not understand than those we do.

I cannot understand the fact that there were dinosaurs, the largest of which I have heard of was 45 tons, roaming the earth.

There must be an explanation involved in creation and the when and how.

When it is said, in the beginning God created the earth, it does not imply that following the creation other entities have not been involved.

Time in the terms of the universe is of no consequence and beyond our understanding.

Just as we find that the most seemingly impossible problem has a very simple answer when we eventually find it, so will creation when God decides to let us know.

It was rather short sighted of god to give us a detailed account of his creation of everything and leave out dinosaurs. In fact your god's account is quite startling wrong across the board, what can this mean?

Can God love? (Part 2) - Page 4 Time_Clock

Can God love? (Part 2) - Page 4 Time_Clock

by polyglide Tue Nov 19, 2013 2:15 pm

There is no way in which one can accurately date anything regarding it''s origin.

It is all supposition.

One of the latest things I read regarding the universe was that we know only 1% of it's size or it's contents.

Then we must be able to calculate at least it's size by adding another 99%. of what we klnow.

The fact is that we cannot possibly know the size of the universe.

Take the BIg Bang theory.

If this were true then the universe must be expanding at a given speed and immediately you calculate it, it would be wrong by the amount it had travelled since the calculation.

The same would apply if the speed varied.

No one knows when or how the earth was formed.

There is no doubt it was formed by the use of energy as the atom bomb proves, along with possible constituents that we are not yet aware of.

To even suggest that this came about by chance and then everything evolved stage by stage involving matters that we cannot duplicate or be explained in terms that can be accepted as possible, is tom say the least pathetic.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:01 pm

polyglide wrote:There is no way in which one can accurately date anything regarding it''s origin.

It is all supposition.

One of the latest things I read regarding the universe was that we know only 1% of it's size or it's contents.

Then we must be able to calculate at least it's size by adding another 99%. of what we klnow.

The fact is that we cannot possibly know the size of the universe.

Take the BIg Bang theory.

If this were true then the universe must be expanding at a given speed and immediately you calculate it, it would be wrong by the amount it had travelled since the calculation.

The same would apply if the speed varied.

No one knows when or how the earth was formed.

There is no doubt it was formed by the use of energy as the atom bomb proves, along with possible constituents that we are not yet aware of.

To even suggest that this came about by chance and then everything evolved stage by stage involving matters that we cannot duplicate or be explained in terms that can be accepted as possible, is tom say the least pathetic.

Another wow moment produced by astonishing ignorance, and wildly false claims, well done.

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:08 pm

polyglide wrote:There is no way in which one can accurately date anything regarding it''s origin.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:What?
It is all supposition.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:What is? Religion? I couldn't agree more, your posts amply show this.
One of the latest things I read regarding the universe was that we know only 1% of it's size or it's contents.

Then we must be able to calculate at least it's size by adding another 99%. of what we klnow.

The fact is that we cannot possibly know the size of the universe.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Three claims made, zero evidence presented, your usual standard.
Take the BIg Bang theory.

If this were true then the universe must be expanding at a given speed and immediately you calculate it, it would be wrong by the amount it had travelled since the calculation.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Please tell me you're being ironic, as otherwise the sheer stupidity of that remark is jaw dropping.
The same would apply if the speed varied.

No one knows when or how the earth was formed.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Oh, don't tell me, a magic sky fairy did it, roughly when the Ancient Sumerians were inventing glue.
There is no doubt it was formed by the use of energy as the atom bomb proves, along with possible constituents that we are not yet aware of.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:Hells bells.....
To even suggest that this came about by chance and then everything evolved stage by stage involving matters that we cannot duplicate or be explained in terms that can be accepted as possible, is tom say the least pathetic.
Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD wrote:As opposed to ancient and superstitious claims about magic apples, talking snakes, and pregnant virgins you mean, do give over, you're making an utter fool of yourself man.

by stuart torr Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:59 pm

Had the same thing with SJB on the other place Sheldon, said all he knew it was older than he was which was 46. how stupid is that for a christian?

by Shirina Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:11 pm

polyglide wrote:No one knows when or how the earth was formed.

polyglide wrote:To even suggest that this came about by chance and then everything evolved stage by stage involving matters that we cannot duplicate or be explained in terms that can be accepted as possible, is tom say the least pathetic.

Ah here we go ...

This is the part where I accuse Christians of being coy. They don't want to come right out and admit that they, in fact, DO claim to know when and how the earth was formed. Their little holy book tells them. But they can't make that claim and still make a valid argument that "no one knows when or how the earth was formed."

So they act as though they're just as much "in the dark" about certain topics as scientists are -- thinking this puts their superstition and mythology on equal footing with scientific evidence.

It doesn't.

by stuart torr Tue Nov 19, 2013 5:36 pm

Not nessecarily Shirina, you see if they come out into the open so to speak. These Christians could make a claim to know and how the Earth was started according to their little/big book. The only thing with doing that, is that it would make them all look even more daft as more scientific evidence does come out as it already is. Laughing

by Tosh Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:16 pm

There is no way in which one can accurately date anything regarding it''s origin.

mmmm, how inaccurate do all the dating methods have to be to make the earth 6000 years old ffs?

It is all supposition.

Yeah we know, science is just another opinion.

You lie with such incompetence it demeans your faith

by Dr Sheldon Cooper PhD Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:37 pm

Tosh wrote:
There is no way in which one can accurately date anything regarding it''s origin.
mmmm, how inaccurate do all the dating methods have to be to make the earth 6000 years old ffs?

It is all supposition.
Yeah we know, science is just another opinion.

You lie with such incompetence it demeans your faith

His clumsy lying demeans the intelligence of everyone who reads them, and even the art of mendacity itself.

by snowyflake Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:23 pm

In polyglide's tiny little world, dinosaurs and expanding universes and the gigatonnes of scientific discovery are put there by satan to befuddle the faithful.

Do Christians smoke crack?

by stuart torr Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:26 pm

Sniff it I think Snowy. Laughing

by polyglide Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:35 am

Dr Sheldon's ignorance is only superceded by his stupidity.

He has not once addressed anything other than in a manner beffiting that of a child and an ignorant one at that.

To dispute in an intelligent manner is far beyond his understanding.

by Dan Fante Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:43 am

polyglide wrote:Dr Sheldon's ignorance is only superceded by his stupidity.

He has not once addressed anything other than in a manner beffiting that of a child and an ignorant one at that.

To dispute in an intelligent manner is far beyond his understanding.

This is getting a bit hard to follow so, with that in mind: what has he failed to address? In your view.

by polyglide Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:45 am

Shirina, I class you as having more intelligence than those who have little regard for anything other than sarcastic remarks.

Of course I do not claim to know HOW the earth was formed, nor as far as I am aware does any Christian, we believe that God created it, how I do not know, nor does anyone else.

But it is even were I not a Christian, a far, far, more plausible
explanation than evolution and random events, there are too many examples of intelligent thought going into creation for any reasonable person not to consider other than evolution and you are well aware of the fact.

by Tosh Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:48 am

polyglide, your responses are becoming shrill and it is obvious you are incapable of defending your claims, why not go away and sharpen up your act, your juvenile drivel is wearing thin.

by polyglide Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:50 am

I have said no one knows the size of the universe, he disputes it but does not say how or why, the fact is no one does.

I say all matter is the result of energy, this is a fact, he disputes it but does not give a reason why.

etc; etc;

by Tosh Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:01 am

polyglide, here is your case for God in a nutshell, you believe the Bible is literally true, humans are unique on earth, something cannot come from nothing and everything looks designed.

Now to a critical thinking mind this kind of reasoning is nothing more than pure speculation, none of your reasons for believing are actually evidence of your God existing.

by polyglide Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:03 am

Some idiots should be careful that they do not let their brains go to their head.

by Tosh Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:04 am

Only an idiot makes extraordinary claims and cannot support them.

by Dan Fante Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:12 am

polyglide wrote:Shirina, I class you as having more intelligence than those who have little regard for anything other than sarcastic remarks.

Of course I do not claim to know HOW the earth was formed, nor as far as I am aware does any Christian, we believe that God created it, how I do not know, nor does anyone else.

But it is even were I not a Christian, a far, far, more plausible
explanation than evolution and random events, there are too many examples of intelligent thought going into creation for any reasonable person not to consider other than evolution and you are well aware of the fact.

None of this makes much sense to me. If you don't know how the Earth was created, how is that more plausible than a hypothesis based on scientific analysis? I.e. how can a lack of an explanation make more sense than an explanation?
Finally, what does: "there are too many examples of intelligent thought going into creation for any reasonable person not to consider other than evolution" actually mean?

by polyglide Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:15 am

Of course you know about the capabilities of an idiot your replies proving you to be the biggest one.

I have no intention of having anything to do with you as I explained long ago, so please refrain from making a bigger fool of yourself than you already have, if that is possible but then you have no real idea of reality so just remember, a half-wit must have given you a piece of his mind and you hung on to it and at the same time lost anything in it that was wothwhile.

by polyglide Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:17 am

My last post does not refer to Dan the idiot who it does will recognise himself.

by Tosh Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:19 am

Finally, what does: "there are too many examples of intelligent thought going into creation for any reasonable person not to consider other than evolution" actually mean?

It doesn't mean anything, it is a statement empty of any content, according to theists EVERYTHING is an example of intelligent thought, there are no exceptions to test the rule.

If there is nothing in existence that can be used as evidence against God's existence then saying there are too many examples is meaningless.

by Dan Fante Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:21 am

polyglide wrote:I have said no one knows the size of the universe, he disputes it but does not say how or why, the fact is no one does.

I say all matter is the result of energy, this is a fact, he disputes it but does not give a reason why.

etc; etc;

Cool, you can answer my questions then, assuming you're not a hypocrite.

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