Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 1)

by **astradt1** Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Justice minister stripped of powers

Ken Clarke to take charge after Djanogly failed to declare family interest in claims management companies

The justice minister, Jonathan Djanogly, has been stripped of his responsibility to regulate firms that "ambulance chase" the public following a Guardian investigation that revealed how he and his family could profit from controversial changes to legal aid he was piloting in parliament.

Djanogly, the heir to a £300m family business, had failed to declare that his teenage children were minority shareholders in his brother-in-law's businesses – two firms that advertise claims and are part of an industry that Djanogly regulated in government.

Do you get the feeling that after each Revelation about members of this government you just have to shout NEXT

by skwalker1964 Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:13 pm

Redflag wrote:I met him in Eastleigh skywalker and you're right he is a lovely person to talk to, he took my name and address and passed it on to Dennis Skinner for me and last week got my photo of Dennis and a letter, so that proves that Grahame Morris keeps his promises.

I've dropped him a note telling him I've been hearing good things! Smile

by Redflag Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:17 pm

I have sent Grahame and Dennis thank you cards which they will receive tomorrow, it's nice to show appreciation when someone has done something nice for others.

by **Ivan** Tue Apr 23, 2013 10:38 pm

George Osborne’s secret veto on fraud inquiries

An extract from an article by Oliver Wright:-

"George Osborne has a secret veto over large and potentially politically sensitive fraud investigations. Under a government agreement, the Serious Fraud Office must get permission from the Treasury to launch any complex new inquiry which comes on top of its normal budget.

But controversially, the Treasury can keep its decisions secret – potentially allowing it to veto politically sensitive fraud inquiries, either before or midway through an investigation, without public scrutiny.

Ministers have now become the final arbiters of which major financial crimes are investigated as a result of 25% cuts to the SFO’s budget over the past three years."

For the full article and reader comments:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-george-osbornes-secret-veto-on-fraud-inquiries-8585215.html

by oftenwrong Tue Apr 23, 2013 11:03 pm

It all began with Oliver Cromwell.

All sorts of things are decided by Government Ministers acting as Privy Councillor to enact the Royal Prerogative without troubling Parliament.

by Redflag Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:46 am

Ivan wrote:George Osborne’s secret veto on fraud inquiries

An extract from an article by Oliver Wright:-

"George Osborne has a secret veto over large and potentially politically sensitive fraud investigations. Under a government agreement, the Serious Fraud Office must get permission from the Treasury to launch any complex new inquiry which comes on top of its normal budget.

But controversially, the Treasury can keep its decisions secret – potentially allowing it to veto politically sensitive fraud inquiries, either before or midway through an investigation, without public scrutiny.

Ministers have now become the final arbiters of which major financial crimes are investigated as a result of 25% cuts to the SFO’s budget over the past three years."

For the full article and reader comments:-
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-george-osbornes-secret-veto-on-fraud-inquiries-8585215.html

Does that mean Ivan if there is another Casino banking crash and the tax payer has to bail them out again Osborne can stop the police from investigating who is too blame for the crash and putting them before the courts ? So now the bankers can do what they like with impunity no wonder the Tories will not bring in Bank regulations.

by skwalker1964 Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:32 pm

I'm in the Guardian today - twice, in fact. Once in an article by Shiv Malik on my blog about the DWP's fake test that it's forcing jobseekers to take under threat of benefit sanction, for apparent purposes of psychological manipulation, and once in my first ever piece of official journalism, as I was asked by the Guardian to write an urgent piece for their 'Comment is Free' section.

Hopefully, this issue could rightly become yet another scandal to rock our malignant government. If you want to read the articles, here are the links:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/apr/30/jobseekers-bogus-psychometric-tests-unemployed

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/30/demonise-demoralise-jobseekers-meaningless-test

by boatlady Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:36 pm

Nice to see this stuff getting wider publicity.
Seen it a lot on Twitter, too

by Redflag Wed May 01, 2013 8:08 am

boatlady wrote:Nice to see this stuff getting wider publicity.
Seen it a lot on Twitter, too

I have never clicked onto so many links boatlady since joining twitter, some of it makes me sick the cover up with the paedos is enough to turn anyones stomach.

by boatlady Wed May 01, 2013 8:27 am

Certainly opens your eyes and makes you question your assumptions about the world, getting so many different views presented.
It seems rude not to open all the links, too, so I often find myself with information I didn't specially want - ho hum.

Still, it's good to see Steve's work getting a bit of recognition.

by Redflag Wed May 01, 2013 8:33 am

boatlady wrote:Certainly opens your eyes and makes you question your assumptions about the world, getting so many different views presented.
It seems rude not to open all the links, too, so I often find myself with information I didn't specially want - ho hum.

Still, it's good to see Steve's work getting a bit of recognition.

My eyes have been opened very wide boatlady, plus I do not realize just how long I have been on and forgot to put my dinner on grumble grumble.

by boatlady Wed May 01, 2013 3:22 pm

Upsets the family no end, that sort of thing

by Redflag Wed May 01, 2013 8:08 pm

boatlady wrote:Upsets the family no end, that sort of thing

But still waiting for the ones that used to take kids from the kids home in North Wales to a flat in London, for them to be named and bloody JAILED.

by **Ivan** Wed May 01, 2013 8:20 pm

I think you'll find that up to three politicians from Thatcher's cabinet - and maybe a famous pop star who is rumoured to have been involved with those young ones - have taken out super injunctions. That may well mean that journalists are not even allowed to say that unnamed persons have been arrested or are "helping the police with their enquiries".

by oftenwrong Wed May 01, 2013 10:54 pm

Messrs Sue Grabbit and Runne today warned Fleet Street that any allegations of impropriety against their clients, were they to have any, and which is not admitted, would be strenuously denied without prejudice, and sub judice notwithstanding evidence or not to the contrary, and although any client which they may or may not have would be perfectly prepared to co-operate with the Police (who may or may not be involved) subject to Royal Charter (or Republican decree) concerning freedom or otherwise of The Press Dio volante reserve the right to charge scale fees for any matter which might, or might not, be remotely connected.

by Redflag Thu May 02, 2013 7:12 am

Ivan wrote:I think you'll find that up to three politicians from Thatcher's cabinet - and maybe a famous pop star who is rumoured to have been involved with those young ones - have taken out super injunctions. That may well mean that journalists are not even allowed to say that unnamed persons have been arrested or are "helping the police with their enquiries".

I hope this does not mean we will not find out about it Ivan, maybe Tom Watson in the HOC or one of the other MPs could mention it ?

by **Phil Hornby** Thu May 02, 2013 11:40 am

" Messrs Sue Grabbit and Runne ...."

You have the legal patter off to such a high degree of accuracy, ow, that we could be persuaded that you have some previous experience in the field. I think we should be told, etc.....

by oftenwrong Thu May 02, 2013 12:24 pm

Whatever has not specifically been admitted is strenuously denied. Alternatively, It was The Devil wot made me do it. Strewth, Guvnor. OK it's a fair cop and you've got me bang to rights. I'll come quietly. Let not poor Nelly starve.

by bobby Sat May 04, 2013 9:21 pm

Nigel Evans, the deputy speaker of the House of Commons, has been arrested on suspicion of raping a man and sexually assaulting another

Here we go yet again another Tory nonce at it, as an old friend of ours would say. " you couldn't make it up could you"

by **Phil Hornby** Sat May 04, 2013 9:38 pm

Caution required, as no charges laid and certainly no conviction. And neither has Cameron yet had any time to make a few 'phone calls to the right people...

by **Ivan** Sat May 04, 2013 9:39 pm

We'd better be a little careful with that story. Evans has been arrested, but he hasn't been charged as yet.

by Deadly Nightshade Sat May 04, 2013 9:53 pm

Without sounding like a proper doughnut over this, surely if he has been arrested there is a reasonable amount of suspicion in the first place. I understand the need to, and quoting my favourite band here "erring on the side of caution" be apprehensive about the allegations however if he has been arrested surely there is more than an inkling to this and a plausible amount of at the very least circumstantial evidence to support this?

by **Ivan** Sat May 04, 2013 11:04 pm

Deadly Nightshade. Yes, I am erring on the side of caution here, and with good reason.

The administrators of this forum are legally responsible for what is posted, not the site owners, and, sadly, not the members. Just a few weeks ago, I was threatened with legal action by a journalist over something which appeared here. I don’t know if that journalist reads this forum regularly, or just chanced on the article; he could even have been alerted by one of our members.

It’s quite in order to say that the Tory MP and Deputy Speaker Nigel Evans has been arrested on suspicion of the rape of one young man and the sexual assault of another. That’s a fact. However, to make comments which assume that he’s guilty of those allegations, when he hasn’t been charged, is unwise. Not only could such publicity be used to support an argument that he cannot receive a fair trial, but should he be able to prove wrongful arrest, those comments could constitute libel.

I realise this must be frustrating, and I’m well aware that if these allegations had been made about a Labour MP, a certain individual would, within seconds of the news breaking, have plastered them on the forum regardless. I’m in no way trying to protect a Tory MP, just safeguarding the forum and its staff.

by oftenwrong Sat May 04, 2013 11:43 pm

The English Law of libel is very strict, and has sharp teeth. Foreigners bring their libel claims to London, because a successful action can produce eye-watering damages.

Before making accusations against a public figure, be assured that they will find you if there is money to be made from a successful prosecution.

by Deadly Nightshade Sun May 05, 2013 9:44 am

Ivan wrote:
It’s quite in order to say that the Tory MP and Deputy Speaker Nigel Evans has been arrested on suspicion of the rape of one young man and the sexual assault of another. That’s a fact. However, to make comments which assume that he’s guilty of those allegations, when he hasn’t been charged, is unwise. Not only could such publicity be used to support an argument that he cannot receive a fair trial, but should he be able to prove wrongful arrest, those comments could constitute libel.

IVAN: Having read your reply I realise that he had not at this stage, been charged with anything only arrested, and this was what was causing a little confusion, as I thought that in order to arrest someone they needed to be charged with a crime in the first place, not suspicion of 1.

by Redflag Sun May 05, 2013 10:25 am

Ivan wrote:We'd better be a little careful with that story. Evans has been arrested, but he hasn't been charged as yet.

Just heard the deputy speaker give a statement denying all the ALLEGED charges that he could face IF found guilty in a court of law, I remeber the same from S. Hall he denied it until he pleaded guilty to 14 of the 17 charges brought against him and will be sentenced in June. So we will just need to await to see what happens in this case until next month not unless there is more to come out in this case.

by bobby Sun May 05, 2013 10:35 am

I would have thought that he has been released "on Bail" means that he has been charged, otherwise he wouls simply have been released. Anyway the alledeged nonse's story is allready in the public domain.

by oftenwrong Sun May 05, 2013 11:40 am

Sex attack claims false: MP Evans

So there it is. Nigel Evans denies the accusations. So until he's "had his day in Court" speculation may be not merely idle, but actionable.

by **Ivan** Sun May 05, 2013 3:20 pm

If the police have reasonable grounds to suspect that you might have committed a crime, they can arrest you and question you. After 24 hours, they must either release you, charge you, or apply to a magistrate to keep you for longer (up to 96 hours). You can be released without charge on police bail, to return at a later date, which I think is what has happened to Evans. My understanding is that once the police have charged you, they can’t question you any more. You certainly don’t get charged before you are arrested.

Evans has denied the allegations with which he might be charged. Just because Stuart Hall also did has no relevance to this case. The news that Evans was arrested is in the public domain, but I’m sure that media outlets will ensure that they don't appear to pass any judgement on whether he’s guilty or not, and we need to be equally as careful. Furthermore, please be aware that it’s illegal to incite homophobic hatred, something which is therefore against our house rules:-
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t18-posting-rules

by **Phil Hornby** Sun May 05, 2013 3:30 pm

Wise advice regarding the matter. Innocent until proven guilty is the name of the game in Britain.

But one has this uneasy feeling that the principle is applied unevenly . A Labour politician would have far more chance of being the subject of pre-charge or pre-trial innuendo from the Tory-supporting usual suspects within the media...

by Redflag Sun May 05, 2013 6:14 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:Wise advice regarding the matter. Innocent until proven guilty is the name of the game in Britain.

But one has this uneasy feeling that the principle is applied unevenly . A Labour politician would have far more chance of being the subject of pre-charge or pre-trial innuendo from the Tory-supporting usual suspects within the media...

I THANK GOD YOU HAVE SAID THAT PH EVERY BODY ON HERE WANTS TO SAY IT BUT FEELS IF THEY DO THERE WILL BE TROUBLE

by **Ivan** Mon May 06, 2013 11:26 pm

Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 1) - Page 19 BJnV3u3CIAEymkH

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJnV3u3CIAEymkH.jpg

by oftenwrong Mon May 06, 2013 11:30 pm

The Tory Motto: "Don't you know who I am?"

by skwalker1964 Tue May 07, 2013 1:37 am

Well, to be fair, Osborne's a parasitic scourge on the whole country, not just London..

by Redflag Tue May 07, 2013 11:03 am

The buffoon Doris has got a bloody cheek after spending £160,000 JUST to find out what the people of London think of him, but its just as you have said Ivan One Law for them and another law for us PLEBS.

by skwalker1964 Wed May 08, 2013 10:14 am

See http://skwalker1964.wordpress.com/2013/05/07/yet-more-dwp-abuse-of-others-materials-and-jobseekers/ for links to sources.

The story so far (please skip down to the new information if you already know the background!):

I’ve written over the last week or so about the fake psychometric ‘test’ that the Department of Work and Pensions’ (DWP) Jobcentre Plus (JCP) centres are forcing jobseekers to take by threatening them with sanction (the removal of their benefits) if they don’t.

As I (and then subsequently various mainstream newspapers) pointed out, this fake ‘test’ was meaningless – it gave exactly the same results for extreme opposite answers, and for a neutral answer all the way through its 48 questions. As Downing Street’s Behavioural Insights Team, or ‘nudge unit’, inadvertently made clear, the accuracy of the ‘personality profile’ was irrelevant – the test was about psychological manipulation of jobseekers.

Threatening people with the immediate loss of their income for a minimum of 4 weeks for failing to take a meaningless test amounted to a form of psychological torture apparently aimed at manipulating unemployment benefit claimants into a position where they would ‘fail to comply’ and could be sanctioned, enhancing ‘off-flow’ – the movement of people off the list of claimants, regardless of whether they had a job or other source of income.

Unethical and cruel at best, and quite possibly illegal – but this wasn’t the end of the DWP’s misdeeds. As I and then the Guardian revealed, the DWP was using the 48 questions that had supposedly been ‘scientifically shown to find people’s strengths’ – but not only was the DWP using the test without permission, but the owners of the test had expressly refused permission for the DWP to use the selected questions because they were ‘scientifically invalid’.

So ‘scientifically shown’ is just one of the many lies the DWP has told around this ‘test’ – including that nobody would lose their benefits for not taking the test:

Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 1) - Page 19 Jsd_re10

People are regularly committing suicide in fear of losing their benefits, and the DWP is threatening removal of benefits for not taking a bogus test – and then denying it.

The new info:

The NCFE ‘enterprise skills’ course

Unfortunately, we’re still far from the end of the DWP’s mistreatment of jobseekers – or their unscrupulous abuse of other people’s materials.

As I showed yesterday, the DWP is forcing barely literate people to attend an ‘enterprise skills’ course designed to move them off the claimant count and into self-employment – even though they have none of the skills or experience needed to make a living in self-employment.

As part of the course’s activities, ‘Maggie’, the young single mother who was ordered by her JCP advisor to attend the Enterprise Skills course, had to define the word ‘enterprise’ – a word many with good literacy skills might struggle to define adequately.

She also had to complete a self-assessment of her ‘enterprise skills’ and personal characteristics as part of the course’s activities. Here is a sample of her completed form:

Is this another Tory scandal brewing? (Part 1) - Page 19 Ncfe0010

This course was devised by NCFE (the letters apparently no longer stand for anything), an educational ‘Awarding Organisation’. According to an NCFE press spokesperson, the qualification consists of a ’50-hour training course designed to be delivered alongside an academic curriculum‘.

The NCFE spokesperson also confirmed that the course is intended for people with good basic literacy skills:

People should not be put on the course without good basic literacy. It is the responsibility of the DWP to ensure that Jobcentre Plus to assess candidates for their suitability before mandating them to attend, as outlined in our Qualification Specification document.

Pages 3-4 of this document give clear and unmistakable instructions on who should and should not be put on the course:

Centres are responsible for ensuring that these qualifications are appropriate for the age and ability of learners. They need to make sure that learners can fulfil the requirements of the assessment criteria and comply with the relevant literacy, numeracy and health and safety aspects of these qualifications.

Now go back and re-read ‘Maggie’s attempt to complete the form and decide whether the DWP has fulfilled its obligations – or whether it has completely disregarded the instructions of the course’s owners in order to force an already-harried young woman, already in fear of losing her benefits, to perform yet another stressful and wholly unsuitable task.

This abuse of NCFE‘s clear instructions about how its course material is to be used may not amount to outright theft – but it’s certainly the equivalent of borrowing someone’s tools and breaking them in the course of committing assault.

If, like me, you’re a close follower of what the DWP gets up to, it will come as no surprise that the DWP is wantonly heaping stress and misery onto people ill-equipped to deal with it. The government has justified its stance by demonising benefit claimants (working or not) as ‘skivers’ and ‘scroungers’.

But this government – and the DWP foremost – never seems to know when to stop. Theft of intellectual property and abuse of others’ materials by flouting clear instructions about how they must be used seem to be routine for the DWP and for the so-called ‘nudge unit’ behind the pointless tasks it is imposing under threat of sanction.

Abusing the unemployed seems to be par for the course for the Tories. But a government department and a unit endorsed by David Cameron as well as by the DWP appear to feel they are entitled to behave like a gang of feral cowboys that not only terrorise the helpless but steal and abuse what belongs to others as well.

by oftenwrong Wed May 08, 2013 12:20 pm

Policy Wonks in government have all come across the Heisenberg principle during their studies, so frequently come up with further tests to measure their original testing. Abstract classroom activity can be quite interesting but may have catastrophic results when applied to the lives of human subjects.

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/quantum-physics-and-the-heisenberg-uncertainty-pri.html

by **Ivan** Fri May 31, 2013 11:29 pm

The Telegraph and the BBC’s ‘Panorama’ have been investigating Patrick Mercer MP over a major lobbying scandal. Apparently, there was a ‘sting’, in which reporters posed as lobbyists on behalf of Fiji and approached Mercer. Sure enough, Mercer has been using his position as an MP to ask questions regarding Fiji.

According to ‘TheyWorkForYou’, Mercer wrote to William Hague on 16 May this year to ask:-
1. What discussions his department has had with the government of Fiji about that country’s human rights record;
2. What discussions his department has had with the government of Fiji about the status of Fiji within the Commonwealth;
3. What discussions his department has had with the government of Fiji about the effects on Fiji of its suspension from the Commonwealth;
4. What his policy is on the re-admission of Fiji to the Commonwealth, and if he will make a statement.

On 20 May, Mercer wrote to Hague to ask what assessment he has made of the UK’s investment in public transport in Fiji and if he will make a statement. In addition, Mercer also raised this Early Day Motion in the House of Commons:-

“That this House recognises that the government of Fiji is making all reasonable efforts to restore democracy; believes that in the light of ongoing hardship being endured by its businesses, there is no justification for Fiji’s continued suspension from the Commonwealth; and, therefore, urges the government to arrange a ministerial visit in order to help prepare for and assist its readmission.”

Mercer has wasted no time in resigning the Tory whip, but he plans to stay on as independent MP until the next election. Shouldn’t he be kicked out now?

by **astradt1** Fri May 31, 2013 11:32 pm

Patrick Mercer MP Quits Conservative Party Over 'Shocking' Lobbying Scandal

In a statement issued on Friday afternoon, Patrick Mercer said BBC Panorama was planning to broadcast allegations he had broken parliamentary rules. "I am taking legal advice about these allegations, and I have referred myself to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards," he said. "In the meantime, to save my Party embarrassment, I have resigned the Conservative Whip and have so informed Sir George Young. I have also decided not to stand at the next General Election."

A Conservative Party spokesman said: "The prime minister is aware. He thinks Patrick Mercer has done the right thing in referring himself to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards and resigning the whip. It's important that the due processes take their course."

The BBC said it has been "investigating lobbying and the conduct of MPs and members of the House of Lords" including Mercer. "The programme is still being made and will be broadcast as soon as possible. The investigation has raised a number of issues related to those involved. Panorama has sought responses from a number of people including Mr Mercer."

Mercer is a harsh critic of David Cameron and was infamously reported to have described the prime minister as "an arse". The Newark MP was sacked from the Tory frontbench in March 2007 after suggesting it was ok to call soldiers "black bastard” and that some ethnic minorities were "idle and useless".

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/05/31/patrick-mercer-resigns-lobbying_n_3364735.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Exposed: the deal that sank cash for questions MP Patrick Mercer

An undercover investigation conducted by The Telegraph and the BBC’s Panorama programme discloses that Patrick Mercer, a former shadow minister, tabled five questions to government ministers and put down a parliamentary motion after being paid £4,000 as part of a contract he believed would earn him £24,000 a year.
The parliamentary questions were all drafted by undercover reporters purporting to be lobbyists for businesses with interests in Fiji.
The Conservative MP also established an all-party parliamentary group in support of the cause being promoted by the lobbyists, which he boasted he had persuaded around 20 other politicians to back publicly.
Mr Mercer, who signed a contract for £2,000 a month also agreed to provide a parliamentary pass for a “representative” of the fictional Fijian client.
“I do not charge a great deal of money for these things,” Mr Mercer said during a meeting to arrange his “consultancy” fee. “I would normally come out at £500 per half day. So £1,000 a day.”

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10092607/Exposed-deal-that-sank-cash-for-questions-MP-Mercer.html

I have to say this explains a lot...Back on the 21st of May I received an e-mail alert under the 'They work for you' system, Yes i am unfortunate enough to live in this prats constituency, which gave details of Question Mercer asked about assessments made of UK investment in public transport in Fiji............I must say it made a change from his usual inane questions about British Armed Forces.....

by **Phil Hornby** Sat Jun 01, 2013 10:30 am

Some comfort that the likes of The Telegraph and the BBC have sought to pursue a Tory MP ( well not Tory now, it seems...!). It leaves some hope that not all the media spooks are in the Blue Corner in every respect. We only need a juicy tale about a UKIP devotee and things may be looking up! Surely The Sun will next week have a counter-balancing ' 'How Ed Miliband plans to kill your children' exclusive...

by **Ivan** Sat Jun 01, 2013 11:33 pm

Just in case tlttf can’t spare the time to rush in here and post these stories about Patrick Mercer OBE:-

Cash for questions: Patrick Mercer no stranger to controversy

Patrick Mercer described a young Israeli soldier as looking like a “bloody Jew”…..said he had met “a lot of idle and useless” ethnic minority soldiers who used racism as a “cover”…..has faced previous accusations over his outside business interests…..has had an affair with a Commons secretary, who left her husband after he promised to leave his wife (but like a good Tory, he reneged on that promise).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/conservative/10092624/Cash-for-questions-Patrick-Mercer-no-stranger-to-controversy.html.

Patrick Mercer could face police questions under Bribery Act

Target of 'sting' operation may have to leave office if police decide to launch investigation.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/01/patrick-mercer

Mercer has only one thing in his favour. He called Cameron “a most despicable creature without any redeeming features”, adding “I loathe him”. Nevertheless, he mustn’t be allowed to ‘do a Conway’ and hang on in Parliament until the next election. He should be drummed out and banged up; what he’s (allegedly) done is far worse than that for which Huhne was incarcerated.

by tlttf Sun Jun 02, 2013 9:21 am

I'm trying not to bother Ivan, that way no rebuke, shame we're not mentioning the Labour peers that have just been outed for the same thing, though I'm sure you'll start a new thread mentioning "Labour Corruption" when you find the time?

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