Welcome to Cutting Edge. Guests can see and read the contents of most of the boards on this forum but need to become members to read all of them. Currently membership is instant, but new accounts may be deleted if not activated within fourteen days.

If you decide to join the forum, please open your welcome message for further details. New members are requested to introduce themselves on the appropriate thread on our welcome board.

Members may post messages and start threads, but it is essential that they read our posting rules and advice before doing so. If you have any immediate questions or queries, please post them on the suggestions board.

After posting at least ten messages, members are able to contact each other and the staff through our personal messaging system.

This forum is administrated by Ivan and moonbeam and moderated by boatlady and astradt1.

Thank you for visiting Cutting Edge.

Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Page 2 of 10 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Adding in new economic data shows that the so-called Austerity economic policy alone does not work. It's clear too me that its totally unsustainable as it destroys countries competiveness while draining confidence within business while driving down not only living standers that in turn shrinks demand. Do you believe the Tories will stick with there only economic policy up-to the next GE? if they do, I happen to believe most people will call time on the Tory party.





Growth Forecast downgraded for the Fifth time by (OBR in November 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time by Bank of England 1.4% August 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to 1.7% (Budget 2011)
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by Ernst & Young from1.7% to 0.9% Jan 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time to by CBI to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 1.2% Sept 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 0.9% Feb 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by I.M.F to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by I.M.F to 0.6% Jan 2012
Growth forecast in the Tory budget down for a 3rd time to 1.7% (Budget 2011
Growth forecast in the City as low as 1.2% 2011
Disposable income has seen its Sharpest fall in 30 years or 1980s (ONS)
Annual Earnings Growth remains at 1.9% in February 2012
GDP The last cycle of robust growth in potential output of 2.9% was 1997 to 2006 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
GDP when the Tory-Liberal coalition come to power ,the UK was growing at an annual rate of 4% (OBR)
GDP sluggish at just 0.5% for April 2011 (OBR)
GDP City Growth forecast for 2012 are 0.3% to 0.4% (FT Sept 2011)
GDP Growth for forecast set by bank of England at 2.0% 2010
GDP Contracted by 0.5% in the Q4 in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 0.8% lower than in November 2010 (OBR)
GDP IS 0.2% lower than MARCH 2011 (OBR)
GDP Growth Contracted by 0.5% Q4 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth April 2011 was Q1 0.5% (OBR)
GDP Growth July 2011 was just Q2 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth starts Jan Q1 2012 at just 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth December 2011 Contracted by 0.2% Q4 (OBR)
GDP April's figures have just clawed back last years 0.5% contraction in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 1.1% lower than the OBR thought it would be in Sept 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth is now lower than 1930s, 1970s, 1980s 1990s (OBR)
GDP UK is 3.6% blow its pre-financial crisis 2008 (H.M.Trasury)
National Debt hits £1.03 Trillion for the first Time Jan 2012 (OBR)
National Debt actual debt after repurchase by Bank of England is £650 Billion (Guardian on B of E figures)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2011 was £75 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2012 was £50 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt total Quantitative Easing is £325 Billion in February 2012 (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt private + public sector debt totals some 500% 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
National Debt Tory Party forecast National debt will fall by just £54 Billion by 2015 (Tory party website)
UK Economic Decline is two and half times that of the entire Euro zone (ONS & H.M.Trasury) 2011
UK Economic Decline is 77% of the EU’s decline for 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK Economy shrank by 5.0% in 2009 the biggest calendar year fall since 1921 ( NIE)
UK Economy shrank by 6.3% in 2011 the biggest calendar year fall on record by October 2011 ( NIE)
UK Pound exchange rate has fallen by 21.0% against the Dollar 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK lose market share accelerated from 2008 to 2010. (Oxford Economic )
Government Borrowing Tory-Liberal coalition come to power stated an additional £111 Billion 2009 (OBR)
Government Borrowing Net borrowing was just £7.3 Billion in 2010 (H.M.Trasury)
Government Borrowing forecast up by £54 Billion (Budget 2011)
Government Borrowing overshot in Q4 by £127 Billion (OBR)
Government Borrowing overshot in Jan 2012 by £157 Billion (ONS)
Government Borrowing topped the £10 billion by just Feb 2011 (OBR)
Government Borrowing to be £10 billion higher every year from 2012 (OBR)
Government Borrowing in Jan 2012 was £13.7 billion for December 2011 overshooting (OBR)
Private Pension deficit up from £24.5 Billion to £31.7 Billion by Sept 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension Deficit £158 billion December 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension deficit £255.2 form £222 billion in Jan 2012 (N.M.A & ONS)
UK 10 Year bonds, the Historical high of 12.84% set in April 1990 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 year Bonds, Record low of 1.97% set in Jan 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, Yields decline by 1.47% from 1989 to 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, averaged 6.28% (H.M.Trasury)
Unemployment up to record 17 year high (ONS)
Unemployment record was set in 1981 at 2.6 million or 9.8% of the Workforce
Unemployment for woman rose for the 10th month in a row March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment increased by 20,000 the highest three month figure since Jan 1997 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 7.7% of economically active population March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment forecast in the budget set to rise to 8.1% in 2012 (Budget 2011)
Unemployment is was2.6 million in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 2.8 million in December 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Claimants increased by 12,400 in March 2011 to April 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Woman Claimants increased by 9,300 to 474,400 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Men Claimants increased by 3,100 to 994,200 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment 16-24 hit 1.043 million in Q3, the highest since records began in 1992. 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments rose by 1,200 to 1.6 million by December 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments up to 1980s levels (ONS)
Business failures in 2010 was 23,000 (ONS)
Business failures in 2011 was 20,900 or 6.5% (ONS)
Bankers Bonus for £14 billion for 2011 (FT & Guardian & BBC)
Manufacturing was flat Feb 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing production out put 1.5% decline in April 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing touted as the engine of the economy fall by 0.3% in July 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing jobless in Q4 2011 to Jan 2012 was up to 395,000
Manufacturing production Cable & Wireless Communication slumped nearly 17% in 2011 (FT)
BDOs output index dropped from Decembers 91.4% to February 2012 to 91.2%
Exports fell in Jan 2011 (HMCR)
Exports Vs Imports increased by 14.7% in October 2011 (HMCR)
Factory gate prices rose 0.9% between February & March 2011 (ONS)
Factory gate prices rose at an annual rate of 5.3% in May 2011 (ONS)
Factory gate prices in December 2011 to 4.8% (ONS)
Factory gate prices fell in January 2012 to 4.1% (ONS)
Factory gate Producers input price inflation in January 2012 is 7% (ONS)
Mortgage & Credit card debt will soar to £2,126 billion by 2015 (ONS)
Mortgage debt now accounts is around £21,000 per person April 2011 (ONS)
Home repossessions peak set in 1991 at 19,000 homes (council of mortgage lenders)
Home repossession forecast to rise to 45,000 in 2012 (council of mortgage lenders )
Construction industry suffered a 0.5% fall in output from November to January 2012 (ONS)
North sea Oil Tax up by £2 Billion for 2011, with HMCR taking 88% in Tax (ONS)
The Worst squeeze on living standards for 90 years
Consumer spending accounts for 65% of the UK economy April 2011 (OMS)
Consumer spending shows the biggest fell in total sales since the survey began in 1995 (KPMG)
Consumer spending has fallen by 1.7% for four consecutive Q in 2011. (ONS)
Personal Spending shows it first drop in personal spending power since the Thatcher slump in 1980s (KMPG)
Petrol down by 1p with VAT up by 2% in the Budget 2011
Petrol prices average increased by 52% up to March 2010
Food Prices rose 7.4% in the biggest rise since 2009 (ONS)
Food Prices rising at 4.9% rising faster than any other OECD in Jan 2012 member (UBS & OECD)
CPI Inflation increase to 3.3% December 2010 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI has put the cost of living double its target from 4% in Jan 2011 to 4.4% in April 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI September 2011 rises by 5.2% (ONS)
CPI October 2011 fall by just 0.2% to 5.0% (ONS)
CPI January 2012 fell to 4.8% from 5.0% (Bank of England)
RPI has gone from 5.1% to 5.5% the highest since 1991 (ONS)
RPI Jan 2011 leapt to CPI 4% from 3.7% with Market Oracle putting real inflation at 6.6% 2012 .
avatar
Stox 16

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2011-12-18
Age : 58
Location : Suffolk in the UK

Back to top Go down


Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:21 pm

astra wrote:
Somehow the baby has been thrown away with its bathwater.


And as usual, the wet nurse/nanny will get, and have to carry the blame.



Unless of course, she is Norland qualified!

Hi astra
The whole thing is just utterly stupid....but that is the Tory party for you...yet some crazy people still think they are doing a good job...cannot show any data to back this up mind you...god help us all...

Stox 16

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2011-12-18

Back to top Go down

Austerity! What austerity?

Post by sickchip on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:49 pm

Quantitative easing is borne of absolute desperation......and is tantamount to legitimised counterfeiting/forgery. When a country resorts to QE it is the beginning of the end.

How does fabricating £50billion out of nothing to pump into a failing economy equate to being austere? The BoE latest measure - no doubt with government backing.

In one fell swoop this puts paid to any notions that austerity is working, or even exists.

This is all an excuse to race the wages of the majority down the scale so we are competitive in a global economy and the minority at the top can maintain their profits, bonuses, and lavish lifestyles. Austerity is only being forced on the poor in order to feed the greed of the rich.
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1149
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:08 pm

1. Work expands to fill the time which is available for its completion.

2. Quantitave easing serves only to increase the price of goods which are purchased in consequence.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Time for a Tory economic update

Post by Stox 16 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:50 am

Well thought it was high time we had a good look at how well Gideon is doing with our economy. plus up-date after his Granny budget of 2012. you will also note i have added some data on Housing benefit that are facts from DWP. also some interesting new data on Unemployment for 2012. However, if your like me, I think you will note that Gideon's vain hopes of running the UK economy are an utter failure from top to bottom.

Q1 Do you believe he has any real hope of turning this dead economy around?
Q2 what impact have to seen yourself of an economy that has utterly failed?
Q3 total Q.E with I.M.F banking sector bail outs now stands at £350 billion, is this money well spent?
Q4 Total UK borrowing on top of banking Sector Tax payers State funding has added £159 billion? is this good?

Total UK Receipts £592 billion and Total UK expenditure £638 billion. Deficit of £46 billion -(Budget 2012)
Gross Domestic Product -0.3% (Q4 2011)
Growth Forecast downgraded for the Sixth time by (OBR in November 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time by Bank of England 1.4% August 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to 1.7% (Budget 2011)
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by Ernst & Young from1.7% to 0.9% Jan 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time to by CBI to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 1.2% Sept 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 0.9% Feb 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by I.M.F to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by I.M.F to 0.6% Jan 2012
Growth forecast in the Tory budget down for a 3rd time to 1.7% (Budget 2011
Growth forecast in the Tory budget down for a 4th time (Budget 2012
Growth forecast in the City as low as 1.2% 2011
Disposable income has seen its Sharpest fall in 30 years or 1980s (ONS)
Annual Earnings Growth remains at 1.9% in February 2012
GDP Growth for forecast set by bank of England at 2.0% 2010
GDP The last cycle of robust growth in potential output of 2.9% was 1997 to 2006 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
GDP when the Tory-Liberal coalition come to power ,the UK was growing at an annual rate of 4% (OBR)
GDP April's 2011 figures have just clawed back last years 0.5% contraction in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 1.1% lower than the OBR thought it would be in Sept 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth is now lower than 1930s, 1970s, 1980s 1990s (OBR)
GDP UK is 3.6% blow its pre-financial crisis 2008 (H.M.Trasury)
GDP City Growth forecast for 2012 are 0.3% to 0.4% (FT Sept 2011)
GDP Contracted by 0.5% in the Q4 in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 0.8% lower than in November 2010 (OBR)
GDP IS 0.2% lower than MARCH 2011 (OBR)
GDP Growth December 2011 Contracted by 0.2% Q4 (OBR)
GDP Growth Contracted by 0.5% Q4 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth July 2011 was just Q2 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth starts Jan Q1 2012 at just 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth April 2011 was Q1 0.5% (OBR)
GDP Growth April 2012 was Q1 0.3% (BCC and ORB)
Public Sector Net Debt excluding financial interventions £995.0 billion (February 2012)
Public Sector Net Debt excluding financial interventions £877.3 billion at the end of February 2011
National Debt hits £1.03 Trillion for the first Time Jan 2012 (OBR)
National Debt actual debt after repurchase by Bank of England is £650 Billion (Guardian on B of E figures)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2011 was £75 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2012 was £50 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt total Quantitative Easing is £325 Billion in total by February 2012 (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt private + public sector debt totals some 500% 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
National Debt Tory Party forecast National debt will fall by just £54 Billion by 2015 (Tory party website)
IMF loan is £40 billion in total for 2012 (IMF) data 2012
UK Economic Decline is two and half times that of the entire Euro zone (ONS & H.M.Trasury) 2011
UK Economic Decline is 77% of the EU’s decline for 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK Economy shrank by 5.0% in 2009 the biggest calendar year fall since 1921 ( NIE)
UK Economy shrank by 6.3% in 2011 the biggest calendar year fall on record by October 2011 ( NIE)
UK Pound exchange rate has fallen by 21.0% against the Dollar 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK lose market share accelerated from 2008 to 2010. (Oxford Economic )
Government Borrowing Tory-Liberal coalition come to power stated an additional £111 Billion 2009 (OBR)
Government Borrowing Net borrowing was just £7.3 Billion in 2010 (H.M.Trasury)
Government Borrowing forecast up by £54 Billion (Budget 2011)
Government Borrowing overshot in Q4 by £127 Billion (OBR)
Government Borrowing overshot in Jan 2012 by £157 Billion (ONS)
Government Borrowing Income Vs Expenditure deficit for 2011/2012 is £46 billions (OBR/ Budget 2012)
Government Borrowing topped the £10 billion by just Feb 2011 (OBR)
Government Borrowing to be £10 billion higher every year from 2012 (OBR)
Government Borrowing in Jan 2012 was £13.7 billion for December 2011 overshooting (OBR)
Private Pension deficit up from £24.5 Billion to £31.7 Billion by Sept 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension Deficit £158 billion December 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension deficit £255.2 form £222 billion in Jan 2012 (N.M.A & ONS)
Pensioners 2.66 million claimants of Pension Credit (3.25 million including partners) 2012 (DWP)
UK 10 Year bonds, the Historical high of 12.84% set in April 1990 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 year Bonds, Record low of 1.97% set in Jan 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, Yields decline by 1.47% from 1989 to 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, averaged 6.28% (H.M.Trasury)
Unemployment up to record 17 year high (ONS)
Unemployment record was set in 1981 at 2.6 million or 9.8% of the Workforce
Unemployment record was set in 1981 was past at 2.67 million or 8.4% of the Workforce January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment for woman rose for the 10th month in a row March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment increased by 20,000 the highest three month figure since Jan 1997 (ONS)
Unemployment increased by 16,000 for the last tree months of 2011. January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 7.7% of economically active population March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 8.4%% of economically active population 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment rate 8.3% of economically active population (December 2011-February 2012)
Unemployment forecast in the budget set to rise to 8.1% in 2012 (Budget 2011)
Unemployment is was2.6 million in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 2.6 million in December 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is up to 2.67 million in January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment Fell by 35,000 from Dec 2011 to Feb 2012. With 2.5 million now out of work (ONS)
Unemployment Claimants increased by 12,400 in March 2011 to April 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Claimants increased 11 month in a row by 6,900 to a total of 1.6 million January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment Woman Claimants increased by 9,300 to 474,400 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployed women increased by 41,000 in Q4 2011 to reach 1.06 million, a figure not reached since 1988
Unemployment Men Claimants increased by 3,100 to 994,200 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment 16-24 hit 1.043 million in Q3, the highest since records began in 1992. 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment 16-24 hit 1.35 million in Q1 Up 22,000 January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments rose by 1,200 to 1.6 million by December 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment benefits spending in UK £147.77 Billion up by 7% on 2008/09 (OBR/Budget 2012)
Unemployment benefit payments up to 1980s levels (ONS)
Unemployment Workless households 3.88 million (April-June 2011) (ONS)
Unemployment with Income Support lone parents (ISLP) early estimate was 580,000. 2012 (DWP)
Unemployment with a Children in workless households 1.8 million (April-June 2011) (ONS) & (DWP)
Housing Benefit was 4.98 million, with 5.90 million claiming Council Tax Benefit. 2012 (DWP)
Housing Benefit award is £86.86 per week, and for Council Tax Benefit recipients. 2012 (DWP)
Housing Benefit overall average award was £15.69 per week. 2012 (DWP)
Housing Benefit recipients were single, with almost two-thirds of these being female. Of the 1.71 million recipients with
Housing Benefit with least one child dependent, 1.16 million of these were single. 2012 (DWP)
Housing Benefit recipients were 3.69 million aged under 65, representing almost three quarters of all Housing Benefit
Business investment growth slashed to just 0.7% from 7.7% predicted in November 2011 (OBR)
Business failures in 2010 was 23,000 (ONS)
Business failures in 2011 was 20,900 or 6.5% (ONS)
Bankers Bonus for £14 billion for 2011 (FT & Guardian & BBC)
Manufacturing Exports forecast in Tory Budget is set at £11 Trillion by 2020 (OBR Budget)
Manufacturing was flat Feb 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing production out put 1.5% decline in April 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing touted as the engine of the economy fall by 0.3% in July 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing jobless in Q4 2011 to Jan 2012 was up to 395,000
Manufacturing production Cable & Wireless Communication slumped nearly 17% in 2011 (FT)
Manufacturing/Business investment growth of just 0.7% in March 2012 (OBR / Budget )
Trade in goods and services -£2.5bn in January 2012
Trade in goods and services -£3.4bn (February 2012) compared with -£2.5bn in January 2012
BDOs output index dropped from Decembers 91.4% to February 2012 to 91.2%
Exports fell in Jan 2011 (HMCR)
Exports Vs Imports increased by 14.7% in October 2011 (HMCR)
Factory gate prices rose 0.9% between February & March 2011 (ONS)
Factory gate prices rose at an annual rate of 5.3% in May 2011 (ONS)

Factory gate prices in December 2011 to 4.8% (ONS)
Factory gate prices fell in January 2012 to 4.1% (ONS)
Factory gate Producers input price inflation in January 2012 is 7% (ONS)
Mortgage & Credit card debt will soar to £2,126 billion by 2015 (ONS)
Tax Credits /Housing benefit cut and only reaped £5.8 billion of the expected £11Billion (ORB Budget 2012)
Mortgage debt now accounts is around £21,000 per person April 2011 (ONS)
Home repossessions peak set in 1991 at 19,000 homes (council of mortgage lenders)
Home repossession forecast to rise to 45,000 in 2012 (council of mortgage lenders )
Construction industry suffered a 0.5% fall in output from November to January 2012 (ONS)
North sea Oil Tax up by £2 Billion for 2011, with HMCR taking 88% in Tax (ONS)
The Worst squeeze on living standards for 90 years
Consumer spending accounts for 65% of the UK economy April 2011 (OMS)
Consumer spending shows the biggest fell in total sales since the survey began in 1995 (KPMG)
Consumer spending has fallen by 1.7% for four consecutive Q in 2011. (ONS)
Consumer spending has rose by 1.9% Q1 January 2012 (ONS)
Producer Price Index: Output Price 3.6% (March 2012) index stands at 177.6, a rise of 5.8% in the year to March 2
Personal Spending shows it first drop in personal spending power since the Thatcher slump in 1980s (KMPG)
Petrol down by 1p with VAT up by 2% in the Budget 2011
Petrol prices average increased by 52% up to March 2010
Food Prices rose 7.4% in the biggest rise since 2009 (ONS)
Food Prices rising at 4.9% rising faster than any other OECD in Jan 2012 member (UBS & OECD)
CPI Inflation increase to 3.3% December 2010 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI annual inflation stands at 3.5 per cent in March, up from 3.4 per cent in February
CPI has put the cost of living double its target from 4% in Jan 2011 to 4.4% in April 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI September 2011 rises by 5.2% (ONS)
CPI October 2011 fall by just 0.2% to 5.0% (ONS)
CPI January 2012 fell to 4.8% from 5.0% (Bank of England)
RPI has gone from 5.1% to 5.5% the highest since 1991 (ONS)
RPI Jan 2011 leapt to CPI 4% from 3.7% with Market Oracle putting real inflation at 6.6% 2012
RPI annual inflation stands at 3.6 per cent in March, down from 3.7 per cent in February 2012
avatar
Stox 16

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2011-12-18
Age : 58
Location : Suffolk in the UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Red Cat Woman on Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:15 am

Stox 16 wrote:Well thought it was high time we had a good look at how well Gideon is doing with our economy. plus up-date after his Granny budget of 2012. you will also note i have added some data on Housing benefit that are facts from DWP. also some interesting new data on Unemployment for 2012. However, if your like me, I think you will note that Gideon's vain hopes of running the UK economy are an utter failure from top to bottom.

Q1 Do you believe he has any real hope of turning this dead economy around?
Q2 what impact have to seen yourself of an economy that has utterly failed?
Q3 total Q.E with I.M.F banking sector bail outs now stands at £350 billion, is this money well spent?
Q4 Total UK borrowing on top of banking Sector Tax payers State funding has added £159 billion? is this good?

Total UK Receipts £592 billion and Total UK expenditure £638 billion. Deficit of £46 billion -(Budget 2012)
Gross Domestic Product -0.3% (Q4 2011)
Growth Forecast downgraded for the Sixth time by (OBR in November 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time by Bank of England 1.4% August 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to 1.7% (Budget 2011)
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by Ernst & Young from1.7% to 0.9% Jan 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 2nd Time to by CBI to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 1.2% Sept 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by CBI to 0.9% Feb 2012
Growth forecast Downgraded for 3rd Time to by I.M.F to 1.3% July 2011
Growth forecast Downgraded for 4th Time to by I.M.F to 0.6% Jan 2012
Growth forecast in the Tory budget down for a 3rd time to 1.7% (Budget 2011
Growth forecast in the Tory budget down for a 4th time (Budget 2012
Growth forecast in the City as low as 1.2% 2011
Disposable income has seen its Sharpest fall in 30 years or 1980s (ONS)
Annual Earnings Growth remains at 1.9% in February 2012
GDP Growth for forecast set by bank of England at 2.0% 2010
GDP The last cycle of robust growth in potential output of 2.9% was 1997 to 2006 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
GDP when the Tory-Liberal coalition come to power ,the UK was growing at an annual rate of 4% (OBR)
GDP April's 2011 figures have just clawed back last years 0.5% contraction in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 1.1% lower than the OBR thought it would be in Sept 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth is now lower than 1930s, 1970s, 1980s 1990s (OBR)
GDP UK is 3.6% blow its pre-financial crisis 2008 (H.M.Trasury)
GDP City Growth forecast for 2012 are 0.3% to 0.4% (FT Sept 2011)
GDP Contracted by 0.5% in the Q4 in 2010 (OBR)
GDP is 0.8% lower than in November 2010 (OBR)
GDP IS 0.2% lower than MARCH 2011 (OBR)
GDP Growth December 2011 Contracted by 0.2% Q4 (OBR)
GDP Growth Contracted by 0.5% Q4 2010 (OBR)
GDP Growth July 2011 was just Q2 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth starts Jan Q1 2012 at just 0.2% (OBR)
GDP Growth April 2011 was Q1 0.5% (OBR)
GDP Growth April 2012 was Q1 0.3% (BCC and ORB)
Public Sector Net Debt excluding financial interventions £995.0 billion (February 2012)
Public Sector Net Debt excluding financial interventions £877.3 billion at the end of February 2011
National Debt hits £1.03 Trillion for the first Time Jan 2012 (OBR)
National Debt actual debt after repurchase by Bank of England is £650 Billion (Guardian on B of E figures)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2011 was £75 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt Coalition & Bank of England QE for 2012 was £50 billion (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt total Quantitative Easing is £325 Billion in total by February 2012 (OBR/Bank of England)
National Debt private + public sector debt totals some 500% 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
National Debt Tory Party forecast National debt will fall by just £54 Billion by 2015 (Tory party website)
IMF loan is £40 billion in total for 2012 (IMF) data 2012
UK Economic Decline is two and half times that of the entire Euro zone (ONS & H.M.Trasury) 2011
UK Economic Decline is 77% of the EU’s decline for 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK Economy shrank by 5.0% in 2009 the biggest calendar year fall since 1921 ( NIE)
UK Economy shrank by 6.3% in 2011 the biggest calendar year fall on record by October 2011 ( NIE)
UK Pound exchange rate has fallen by 21.0% against the Dollar 2011 (H.M.Trasury)
UK lose market share accelerated from 2008 to 2010. (Oxford Economic )
Government Borrowing Tory-Liberal coalition come to power stated an additional £111 Billion 2009 (OBR)
Government Borrowing Net borrowing was just £7.3 Billion in 2010 (H.M.Trasury)
Government Borrowing forecast up by £54 Billion (Budget 2011)
Government Borrowing overshot in Q4 by £127 Billion (OBR)
Government Borrowing overshot in Jan 2012 by £157 Billion (ONS)
Government Borrowing Income Vs Expenditure deficit for 2011/2012 is £46 billions (OBR/ Budget 2012)
Government Borrowing topped the £10 billion by just Feb 2011 (OBR)
Government Borrowing to be £10 billion higher every year from 2012 (OBR)
Government Borrowing in Jan 2012 was £13.7 billion for December 2011 overshooting (OBR)
Private Pension deficit up from £24.5 Billion to £31.7 Billion by Sept 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension Deficit £158 billion December 2011 (ONS)
Private Pension deficit £255.2 form £222 billion in Jan 2012 (N.M.A & ONS)
Pensioners 2.66 million claimants of Pension Credit (3.25 million including partners) 2012 (DWP)
UK 10 Year bonds, the Historical high of 12.84% set in April 1990 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 year Bonds, Record low of 1.97% set in Jan 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, Yields decline by 1.47% from 1989 to 2012 (H.M.Trasury)
UK 10 Year Bonds, averaged 6.28% (H.M.Trasury)
Unemployment up to record 17 year high (ONS)
Unemployment record was set in 1981 at 2.6 million or 9.8% of the Workforce
Unemployment record was set in 1981 was past at 2.67 million or 8.4% of the Workforce January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment for woman rose for the 10th month in a row March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment increased by 20,000 the highest three month figure since Jan 1997 (ONS)
Unemployment increased by 16,000 for the last tree months of 2011. January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 7.7% of economically active population March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 8.4%% of economically active population 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment rate 8.3% of economically active population (December 2011-February 2012)
Unemployment forecast in the budget set to rise to 8.1% in 2012 (Budget 2011)
Unemployment is was2.6 million in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is now 2.6 million in December 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment is up to 2.67 million in January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment Fell by 35,000 from Dec 2011 to Feb 2012. With 2.5 million now out of work (ONS)
Unemployment Claimants increased by 12,400 in March 2011 to April 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment Claimants increased 11 month in a row by 6,900 to a total of 1.6 million January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment Woman Claimants increased by 9,300 to 474,400 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployed women increased by 41,000 in Q4 2011 to reach 1.06 million, a figure not reached since 1988
Unemployment Men Claimants increased by 3,100 to 994,200 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment 16-24 hit 1.043 million in Q3, the highest since records began in 1992. 2011 (ONS)
Unemployment 16-24 hit 1.35 million in Q1 Up 22,000 January 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment benefit payments rose by 1,200 to 1.6 million by December 2012 (ONS)
Unemployment benefits spending in UK £147.77 Billion up by 7% on 2008/09 (OBR/Budget 2012)
Unemployment benefit payments up to 1980s levels (ONS)
Unemployment Workless households 3.88 million (April-June 2011) (ONS)
Unemployment with Income Support lone parents (ISLP) early estimate was 580,000. 2012 (DWP)
Unemployment with a Children in workless households 1.8 million (April-June 2011) (ONS) & (DWP)
Housing Benefit was 4.98 million, with 5.90 million claiming Council Tax Benefit. 2012 (DWP)
Housing Benefit award is £86.86 per week, and for Council Tax Benefit recipients. 2012 (DWP)
Housing Benefit overall average award was £15.69 per week. 2012 (DWP)
Housing Benefit recipients were single, with almost two-thirds of these being female. Of the 1.71 million recipients with
Housing Benefit with least one child dependent, 1.16 million of these were single. 2012 (DWP)
Housing Benefit recipients were 3.69 million aged under 65, representing almost three quarters of all Housing Benefit
Business investment growth slashed to just 0.7% from 7.7% predicted in November 2011 (OBR)
Business failures in 2010 was 23,000 (ONS)
Business failures in 2011 was 20,900 or 6.5% (ONS)
Bankers Bonus for £14 billion for 2011 (FT & Guardian & BBC)
Manufacturing Exports forecast in Tory Budget is set at £11 Trillion by 2020 (OBR Budget)
Manufacturing was flat Feb 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing production out put 1.5% decline in April 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing touted as the engine of the economy fall by 0.3% in July 2011 (ONS)
Manufacturing jobless in Q4 2011 to Jan 2012 was up to 395,000
Manufacturing production Cable & Wireless Communication slumped nearly 17% in 2011 (FT)
Manufacturing/Business investment growth of just 0.7% in March 2012 (OBR / Budget )
Trade in goods and services -£2.5bn in January 2012
Trade in goods and services -£3.4bn (February 2012) compared with -£2.5bn in January 2012
BDOs output index dropped from Decembers 91.4% to February 2012 to 91.2%
Exports fell in Jan 2011 (HMCR)
Exports Vs Imports increased by 14.7% in October 2011 (HMCR)
Factory gate prices rose 0.9% between February & March 2011 (ONS)
Factory gate prices rose at an annual rate of 5.3% in May 2011 (ONS)

Factory gate prices in December 2011 to 4.8% (ONS)
Factory gate prices fell in January 2012 to 4.1% (ONS)
Factory gate Producers input price inflation in January 2012 is 7% (ONS)
Mortgage & Credit card debt will soar to £2,126 billion by 2015 (ONS)
Tax Credits /Housing benefit cut and only reaped £5.8 billion of the expected £11Billion (ORB Budget 2012)
Mortgage debt now accounts is around £21,000 per person April 2011 (ONS)
Home repossessions peak set in 1991 at 19,000 homes (council of mortgage lenders)
Home repossession forecast to rise to 45,000 in 2012 (council of mortgage lenders )
Construction industry suffered a 0.5% fall in output from November to January 2012 (ONS)
North sea Oil Tax up by £2 Billion for 2011, with HMCR taking 88% in Tax (ONS)
The Worst squeeze on living standards for 90 years
Consumer spending accounts for 65% of the UK economy April 2011 (OMS)
Consumer spending shows the biggest fell in total sales since the survey began in 1995 (KPMG)
Consumer spending has fallen by 1.7% for four consecutive Q in 2011. (ONS)
Consumer spending has rose by 1.9% Q1 January 2012 (ONS)
Producer Price Index: Output Price 3.6% (March 2012) index stands at 177.6, a rise of 5.8% in the year to March 2
Personal Spending shows it first drop in personal spending power since the Thatcher slump in 1980s (KMPG)
Petrol down by 1p with VAT up by 2% in the Budget 2011
Petrol prices average increased by 52% up to March 2010
Food Prices rose 7.4% in the biggest rise since 2009 (ONS)
Food Prices rising at 4.9% rising faster than any other OECD in Jan 2012 member (UBS & OECD)
CPI Inflation increase to 3.3% December 2010 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI annual inflation stands at 3.5 per cent in March, up from 3.4 per cent in February
CPI has put the cost of living double its target from 4% in Jan 2011 to 4.4% in April 2011 (OBR & Oxford Economic)
CPI September 2011 rises by 5.2% (ONS)
CPI October 2011 fall by just 0.2% to 5.0% (ONS)
CPI January 2012 fell to 4.8% from 5.0% (Bank of England)
RPI has gone from 5.1% to 5.5% the highest since 1991 (ONS)
RPI Jan 2011 leapt to CPI 4% from 3.7% with Market Oracle putting real inflation at 6.6% 2012
RPI annual inflation stands at 3.6 per cent in March, down from 3.7 per cent in February 2012

OMG readying this is so very bad. God what are they playing at? I Had no true idea how bad things have got. its taken be aback a bit. as economic is not my subject but thanks Stox xxx
avatar
Red Cat Woman

Posts : 175
Join date : 2012-04-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by trevorw2539 on Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:42 am

Stox 16. Thanks for the above. We have no chance of improvement under this Coalition. I understand their fortune teller has proved to be a fraud, and they're desperately seeking another. I'll tell you another thing. It'll soon be cheaper to buy the UK than buy a Premier League team. Still, with their record, this government would soon be out.Smile

Whatever your (not personal) leanings surely any other Government could do better than this shower. People of the people, who understand real life, not a make-believe world this government dream of, and live in. Deprived of their wealth these people would be lost.

Must stop and calm down.

I'm no economist. Just a simple man, but not stupid. Let's hope all simple men/women are not stupid at the next General Election. Out with them.
avatar
trevorw2539

Posts : 1349
Join date : 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Red Cat Woman on Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:57 am

trevorw2539 wrote:Stox 16. Thanks for the above. We have no chance of improvement under this Coalition. I understand their fortune teller has proved to be a fraud, and they're desperately seeking another. I'll tell you another thing. It'll soon be cheaper to buy the UK than buy a Premier League team. Still, with their record, this government would soon be out.Smile

Whatever your (not personal) leanings surely any other Government could do better than this shower. People of the people, who understand real life, not a make-believe world this government dream of, and live in. Deprived of their wealth these people would be lost.

Must stop and calm down.

I'm no economist. Just a simple man, but not stupid. Let's hope all simple men/women are not stupid at the next General Election. Out with them.

I am with you Trevor on this 100% of the way. I no very little about economic but from what both you and Stox has said. my mum and my cat could do a better job than this lot

these two fact are outrages

Unemployment Woman Claimants increased by 9,300 to 474,400 in March 2011 (ONS)
Unemployed women increased by 41,000 in Q4 2011 to reach 1.06 million, a figure not reached since 1988
avatar
Red Cat Woman

Posts : 175
Join date : 2012-04-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by sickchip on Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:12 am

The tories have a time machine and are taking us back to victorian times and have nought to offer 'cept lashings and lashings of social inequality.
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1149
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Sun Apr 22, 2012 12:38 pm

does-new-economic-data-show-that-austerity-does-not-work?

New economic data shows that Gideon Osborne has staked £10billion of our money on recovery of the Euro.

I hope no-one tells Greece, Spain and Italy that there's new money in the Pot.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by astra on Sun Apr 22, 2012 1:02 pm

What irritates me 'Chip, is the knowledge that the Good Ship UK is rudderless

We had figures out last week that 160,000 British people lost their jobs, and by some governmental munificence, 160,000 immigrants were given employment. Say what you like about me bringing this up, but it would NOT happen in Germany!

Victorian Times? Hell's Teeth we are going back longer than that!!

Please look up Dr. John Sharp, of Bamburgh Castle - 1757 - 1781.
This man on his own set up a Welfare State - feeding the poor and tending illnesses. He also started the Bamburgh Coastguard, for aiding shipping caught in the Farne Islands. Grace Darling and the Forfarshire were well after this man's time in charge.

It seems to me that the benifecence provided by Dr Sharp would be too much for the Tories to stomach!

http://www.bamburghcastle.com/history.php



avatar
astra
Deceased

Posts : 1864
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North East England.

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:00 am

oftenwrong wrote:does-new-economic-data-show-that-austerity-does-not-work?

New economic data shows that Gideon Osborne has staked £10billion of our money on recovery of the Euro.

I hope no-one tells Greece, Spain and Italy that there's new money in the Pot.

Hi Oftenwrong
I will try and explain this in an easy way that everyone can understand and without my Red hat on my head ha ha

Does Austerity work? In Short No?

Well is not a very big question on paper but a very large question to in fact answer?

Let start by removing the question of political parties for this issue as this does nothing to help. If you like we can come back to them later on?

Why does Austerity not Work?

Well if this was your own household income and spending it would work. As there are two main reasons. One you have a very good idea what your income will be each month and at years end. Two you know what you can do without or lets say cut back on. This however does not work with government at all.

Why does this not work in Government if it works at home for me?

Well once more there are very big differences which a more structural than at home. Let me try to explain why. Government has two main problems it faces each year. 1st it has no real idea what its end of year income will be at years end. As income is made up of three main areas (A) GDP from exports (B) Income Tax. ( C) government bonds or Borrowing if you like, not that this should be seen as income like it is today. However, government expenditure is paid out every month or in some cases every three months. So in short all government world wide have it run and overdraft due to there income gap and not knowing what there end of year income will be. while facing monthly expenditure at the same time.


How should Austerity work?

Well if you was running your own home and you wish to say bring down your overdraft.. you would cut your spending and in time it should met your income. All sound very easy yes? yet in government its not

So why is Austerity not working now?

The main reason is there is no real GDP or income. or should I say its far to small to cover monthly expenditure. (2) As the government cut back on its expenditure it weakens its only other real income Tax. As the end of year tax returns are smaller and added to no GDP you are left with a budget deficit. This left us with the following for 2011

Total UK Receipts £592 billion and Total UK expenditure £638 billion. Deficit of £46 billion -(Budget 2012)

So what has the government got wrong over Austerity?

The government made so very silly assumption. First it has know real policy for GDP growth nor did they believe they as the government should have one. As they made a rather silly mistake in believing that the economy is best left to run by itself. (2) that the UK national debt had to be cut fast as it was costing us far too much, yet most people in the know will tell you as long as you have around about 2.6% of GDP this
is not such a big problem. As there is in fact enough income to met you expenditure and slowly pay off your national debt at the same time. In fact they come into office with GDP at around this very mark 2.5% GDP. Yet by putting up both VAT and cut for too fast they slowed the economy down while killing of growth. (3) They also made the assumption that business would pick up the high levels of unemployment from the public sector. While over looking that business was facing a fall in its own income while facing outside pressure it had no control over. Business also fears a second banking crisis so is sitting on very large amounts of capital. Much as the banking sector, in fact far worse in the finance sector as they no longer trust each other at all. (4) inadequate tax take will lead us into new financial crisis and consequent recession all aggravated when taxes are cut later during this parliament and higher benefit payments kick in

So in short Austerity is not an economic policy by its self

So the bottom line is that Austerity is only one small tool and has to be matched with a fiscal growth policy. In other word you have to spend money to make money. This is a old saying but a very true saying even today. Something every business man and woman knows, yet this government forgot. So what we all face is more a government structural incomes problem or how we do business of paying for our services. Or put it way. Is like you cutting your own expenditure while not have either any income or not knowing what its likely to be.

So Firstly, some facts which blow apart the fallacy that the present economic crisis is the result of excessive spending leading to unsustainable debt:
 
Average annual spending and taxation were both lower as a proportion of GDP under the last 3 Labour Governments (38% and 35.4%) than under the 4 Conservative governments which preceded them (40% and 35.5%). all (ONS Data)

National debt was lower as a proportion of GDP at the start of the financial crisis in 2008 (36%) than in 1997, the last year of John Major’s Conservative government (42%).(ONS Data)

In 2010, the UK’s national debt as a proportion of GDP (52%) was the second lowest of the G7 countries (ONS Data)

SO LET ME ADD THIS. WITH MY READ HAT ON IF I MAY.

Isn’t cutting public services the only way to cut the deficit?

No – the deficit is not caused by too much government spending, but a long term shrinking of government income. Therefore, the most important thing is that the economy returns to strong growth as quickly as possible.
Maintaining public spending is therefore a necessary investment for the long-term recovery of our economy. Government income could be increased by nearly £40 billion through overhauling the tax system to make it fairer, with no negative effects for ordinary working people.
Details:

As the economy grows, tax receipts will naturally increase, so the most important thing to ensure is that the economy returns to strong growth as quickly as possible.
Maintaining public spending now is a necessary investment to ensure our economy recovers in the future. It is also important to remember that deficit is the result of a two-sided equation and therefore can also be reduced by increasing government income. And government income could be massively increased without any negative effects for ordinary working people through fairer tax.

For example:
A higher rate of income tax at 50% for incomes above £100,000 would raise £2.3bn a year.

Getting rid of the upper limit for National Insurance (currently a regressive tax), would raise £9.1bn a year.
Increasing the main rate of Corporation Tax from 28% back to 30% and the small firms rate back to 20% would raise £1.4bn.

Raising the Capital Gains Tax rate from 18% to the recipient’s highest income tax rate would raise £1bn.
Reform of inheritance tax, so that the level of taxation depends on the wealth of the recipient rather than that of the deceased, would raise £3bn by 2013.

A tax relief cap would raise £10 billion.
Creating an empty property tax would raise £5 billion.

And cracking down on tax dodging, with a general anti-avoidance principle, would raise £1 billion.

lets just end by saying that these are my ideas for getting us moving once more. i believe they can work and would not hurt us in any real way. sorry its so long but it has too be my friend

STOX 16
avatar
Stox 16

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2011-12-18
Age : 58
Location : Suffolk in the UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by bobby on Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:23 am

Wheres my Gladius. I feel a fall coming on.
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by trevorw2539 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:17 am

Stox16. Thanks for the above. Seems quite simple to get things right, doesn't it scratch.



by bobby Today at 9:23 am




Wheres my Gladius. I feel a fall coming on
Bobby. Cyanide is less painful Smile
avatar
trevorw2539

Posts : 1349
Join date : 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by bobby on Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:28 am

Bobby. Cyanide is less painful Smile

Trevor, I sincerely hope you dont know this by personal experience.Laughing
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by astra on Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:53 am

My 'cure' was always - 3 bottles of Barley Wine and Half a Bottle of good Malt. Arbeg, Clynelish or some such.


Never cured the problem, but it DID make it disappear for a while!!

My head hurts thinking about it Smile

I did try barley wine and dark rum once - - - - - just once :affraid:
avatar
astra
Deceased

Posts : 1864
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North East England.

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by witchfinder on Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:57 am

Two leaders of the English speaking world who have absolutely nothing in common when it comes to economics and how to handle recession, of course I am talking about Barack Obama and David Cameron.

When the world-wide financial crisis and recession hit, amongst the worst affected areas were the industrial mid-western states of Ohio and Michigan.
In the motor manufacturing state of Michigan, unemployment peaked at just over 14%, and unemployment hit double digits in Arizona, Florida, Nevada and North Carolina.

Amazingly, not only has unemployment halved in some of these states, but the recovery is speeding up, the race away from recession is accelerating.
Even in the bleakest of industrial blackspots, unemployment is now falling, the economy is moving and growing.

With inflation at just over two and a half percent, the trade deficit narrowing, annual growth estimated to be between 2.5 and 3%, these are the kind of figures that George Osborne can only dream about.

The coalitian here are waiting anxiously for the latest growth figures, to see just how close we came to tipping back into recession, dismal figures caused by a dismal economic plan from an incompetent chancelor who cannot understand that too much austerity kills growth.

Well done to Barack Obama, by following a careful and balanced economic plan, the United States is now back on track to full recovery, and as opinion polls are showing, he is on track to continue on with the good work.
avatar
witchfinder
Forum Founder

Posts : 703
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North York Moors

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by bobby on Mon Apr 23, 2012 11:34 am

witchfinder. You are absolutely correct re the difference between Barack Obama and Herr Cameron.

Barack Obama wants to cure his Country of its ills, whereas Herr Cameron doesn't give a fig for the economy or the Country, he just wants to put his ideological plans on to the statute books, never to be reversed.
avatar
bobby

Posts : 1939
Join date : 2011-11-18

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by trevorw2539 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:20 pm

I don't disagree with any of the above.

As an expert economic idiot I ask this question. Is there not a slight difference in the fact that USA seems to have a large industrial base and larger internal market than the UK. It also has companies with large overseas investments, Walmart, McDonalds, GM etc.etc.etc. ad infinitum and therefore a larger worldwide market. Accepted we have Europe, but the recession there limits our markets. Thus Camer-cons jaunt to drum up business.

I accept that Obama seems to have the right approach, and good luck to him.

As Bobby says, on the one hand we have someone who cares for the people of his nation, and one who cares only about his own clique.

Your thoughts are welcome. I'm still learning economics. scratch

Back later.
avatar
trevorw2539

Posts : 1349
Join date : 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:24 pm

I wonder how close we now are to hearing large numbers of the population saying : " Do you remember the good old days when Gordon Brown was Chancellor...?" Shocked
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by witchfinder on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:05 pm

trevorw2539

A good way of describing the present situation would be to make an analogy using a credit card.

Mr Britain and Mr America both face hard times, both have the use of a credit card which they can use if necessary, but caution and common sense should prevail.

There is never a problem using a credit cart providing you can pay it back, and if your going through a rough patch, then borrowing a bit more than normal to keep your family going is a good idea, especialy if you have regular income coming in to sort it out later.

The problem for for some is quite different, Mr Greece for example used his credit card and accumulated too much credit without the income to pay it off, this is not the situation with Mr Britain who has a good and long track record of increasing debt and then paying it back.

Just like Mr America, Mr Britain has used his credit card to help the family through the rough patch and is now paying the credit card debts back, but as we all know there are different ways of paying credit cards.

Some people, like Mr Britain choose to pay the debt back as quickly as possible, even though this is not necessary and not obligatory; Others, like Mr America choose the option to pay back the debt in smaller installments, leaving his family a bit more money to play with than Mr Britain.

The international credit rating agencies do not realy care how debt is paid back just so long as there is a credible and sustainable plan to deal with it.

The fact that America has chosen to deal with its debt at a slower pace than Britain has meant that America has more money left over, and that money is been used to sustain the economy of America, helping companies, infrastructure, road building and house building, pushing down unemployment, increasing economic activity and growth.

In Britain however, because the debt is been paid off as quickly as possible, there is nothing left over to help the economy, therefore there is virtualy no economic activity and hardly any growth, its basicly a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The Obama plan is basicly the same plan as formulated by Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, and it is the same plan that Nick Clegg and Vince Cable endorsed until they changed their minds.




avatar
witchfinder
Forum Founder

Posts : 703
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North York Moors

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Phil Hornby on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:20 pm

There is absolutely no fun for the Tories in implementing any plan which does not involve kicking the sh*t out of Joe Ordinary... Crying or Very sad
avatar
Phil Hornby
Blogger

Posts : 3942
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : Drifting on Easy Street

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by sickchip on Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:53 pm

astra,

Dr. John Sharp was crucial to the development of Lord Crewe's Charity. Born at Rothbury in 1723, he was the oldest of the 8 surviving children of Thomas Sharp, Archdeacon of Northumberland, a position that John himself achieved in 1762. His grandfather was the Archbishop of York.

Following his father's death in 1758, John became a senior trustee of Lord Crewe's Charity and took personal charge of the castle at Bamburgh. He succeeded as perpetual curate of Bamburgh in 1773, a position previously held by his brother Thomas. John devoted the rest of his life to the Lord Crewe estates and to the improvement of the castle, for which he used his own fortune. Using surplus income from the estates he set up a range of innovative philanthropic ventures which benefited those living within the estates and beyond.

Hutchinson, writing in 1776, said of Dr Sharp, "He resides many months in each year in the Castle of Bamburgh, superintends the works of charity, and has his eye upon every new channel by which he may give relief or consolation to his suffering fellow-creatures. The ship-wrecked, and the diseased, are comforted by his visitation, and the calamities of life are alleviated by his care, and his residence there diffuses blessings over the neighbouring coast."

Under the terms of Lord Crewe's will, the Trustees had wide discretion in disposing of the surplus income of the estates for charitable purposes. As the surplus increased, Dr John Sharp devised a number of charities based at Bamburgh Castle. Startlingly modern in their approach to welfare, many of these survived into the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Corn Charity: From 1766, Sharp set up a granary within the castle so that grain could be sold to the poor at a special low price. Barley, beans, peas oats and rice were later included in this arrangement, and after Sharp's death, a cheap shop started, supplying miscellaneous groceries such as starch, blue pepper, ginger and butter. Meat was also provided for the poor, especially during public celebrations such as Christmas

Shipwrecks and Sailors: Worried by the frequency of shipwrecks along the coast, Sharp prepared accommodation within the castle for shipwrecked sailors and during foggy weather a gun was fired at intervals from the turret of the keep so that ships could be warned away from the rocks. The bodies of drowned sailors were given a decent burial, in coffins made by the castle's joiner, Bartholomew Younghusband.

Medical: An infirmary and dispensary were set up where poor applicants, on production of a certificate of recommendation, could receive medical treatment. With the help of his brother William, who was surgeon to King George III, John purchased state of the art medical equipment and supplies from London to furnish it. This included several pewter syringes, bellows to give artificial respiration, a sedan chair and a mysterious 'electrical machine', costing £4.5s.

The School: A school was established within the castle itself in 1772. Parents of limited means could apply for their children to receive free schooling. A female School of Industry, which provided a sound elementary education and training in domestic skills to prepare the girls for employment in service, was still operating when the castle was sold in 1890.

Petitions: The charity considered petitions for financial assistance from all over the country - including appeals to pay apprenticeship fees, for help towards the expenses of enclosure, or to defray the cost of education for a poor child.




avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1149
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by trevorw2539 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:07 pm

Witchfinder. Thanks.

The only problem with that is that the longer you take to pay back, the more interest you pay. I can see that if the amount gained exceeds the extra payments all is well. I just don't see where the extra would come from in the UK's case. We can't afford the current situation.

A few minutes ago I heard on Radio 5 that Government Departments are being told to retain 5% of their budget in case further cuts are required. If Departments do this then they are already making the cuts by depriving their services of the money already allocated???????????

Oh the joys of economics.

By the way. Have you read 'The Walrus and the Carpenter' lately. 2 interesting characters and a very dubious, duplicitous and s(h)ellfish plot. Hm. Seem to have heard it all before.silent


Last edited by trevorw2539 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:10 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : grammar)
avatar
trevorw2539

Posts : 1349
Join date : 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by witchfinder on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:16 pm

trevorw2539

The opposition Conservatives and their poodles ( the Lib Dems ) will have you believe anything, have a look at the statement below, read it out to yourself and think about it.

As a proportion of GDP, Britain’s national debt has been higher than it is now for 200 of the past 250 years. [ fact ]

Why use the measure "as a proportion of GDP" ?

Answer: Because its the only true measure, one billion pounds of national debt to say Iceland is very different to one billion pounds of debt to the United States for example.

INTEREST RATES

Interest rates all accross the world are at record lows, if there was ever a right time to increase your national debt then its now, though obviously there must be an element of caution.

If we are “bust” today, as George Osborne has claimed, then we have almost always been bust. We were bust when we pioneered the Industrial Revolution. We were bust when we ruled a quarter of the world. We were bust when we beat the Nazis. We were bust when we built the NHS. Or is it George Osborne’s economics that are bust. ?

GROWTH IS THE GREATEST WEAPON - try to get your head around this

Our National Debt is 63% of GDP, but if our annual growth is 3% per year, then what effect would this have on our debt as a percentage of GDP. ?

The answer is that our debt is reduced without doing anything, and allthough the debt remains the same in actual monetary terms, it has reduced in real value, and thats what realy counts.

Proof that the coalition government will have you believe anything is this statement: "the Labour government borrowed and spent", its a statement you frequently hear from Tories and their apologists.

FACT: National Debt was lower than it was under John Major for most of the period Labour were in office, it only rose after the financial crisis hit.

Attempting to cut national debt when there is no growth is rather like bailing out a sinking dinghy with a teaspoon.



avatar
witchfinder
Forum Founder

Posts : 703
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North York Moors

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by trevorw2539 on Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:42 pm

Witchfinder. Thanks.

Life was much simpler in ancient times. If you were poor but strong, you invaded a weaker, richer nation. If you were rich but weak in numbers and strength, you made friends with your poor but strong neighbour with 'gifts'.

Other than that, all hell broke loose. Shocked
avatar
trevorw2539

Posts : 1349
Join date : 2011-11-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Tue Apr 24, 2012 3:58 am

witchfinder wrote:trevorw2539

A good way of describing the present situation would be to make an analogy using a credit card.

Mr Britain and Mr America both face hard times, both have the use of a credit card which they can use if necessary, but caution and common sense should prevail.

There is never a problem using a credit cart providing you can pay it back, and if your going through a rough patch, then borrowing a bit more than normal to keep your family going is a good idea, especialy if you have regular income coming in to sort it out later.

The problem for for some is quite different, Mr Greece for example used his credit card and accumulated too much credit without the income to pay it off, this is not the situation with Mr Britain who has a good and long track record of increasing debt and then paying it back.

Just like Mr America, Mr Britain has used his credit card to help the family through the rough patch and is now paying the credit card debts back, but as we all know there are different ways of paying credit cards.

Some people, like Mr Britain choose to pay the debt back as quickly as possible, even though this is not necessary and not obligatory; Others, like Mr America choose the option to pay back the debt in smaller installments, leaving his family a bit more money to play with than Mr Britain.

The international credit rating agencies do not realy care how debt is paid back just so long as there is a credible and sustainable plan to deal with it.

The fact that America has chosen to deal with its debt at a slower pace than Britain has meant that America has more money left over, and that money is been used to sustain the economy of America, helping companies, infrastructure, road building and house building, pushing down unemployment, increasing economic activity and growth.

In Britain however, because the debt is been paid off as quickly as possible, there is nothing left over to help the economy, therefore there is virtualy no economic activity and hardly any growth, its basicly a case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The Obama plan is basicly the same plan as formulated by Gordon Brown and Alistair Darling, and it is the same plan that Nick Clegg and Vince Cable endorsed until they changed their minds.





How very true and very well put too
avatar
Stox 16

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2011-12-18
Age : 58
Location : Suffolk in the UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Tue Apr 24, 2012 8:30 am

I simply don't understand why they chose the breakneck speed option, as to me it seems to be for no other reason than to inflict hardship and misery on the people least able to suffer it...that in my book spells CRUELTY!
avatar
Adele Carlyon

Posts : 412
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : Wigan, Lancs

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Tue Apr 24, 2012 10:25 am

"I simply don't understand why they chose the breakneck speed option ...."

They don't expect to be re-elected, so have only one term in which to make up for thirteen years out of office.

"Drive faster, so we can get home before the petrol runs out!"
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Mel on Tue Apr 24, 2012 7:33 pm

"They don't expect to be re-elected, so have only one term in which to make up for thirteen years out of office."

They were fully aware of that OW at the time when they needed the LD's
to help put them in power. Your analysis fully answers Adele's question.
avatar
Mel

Posts : 1703
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:43 am

I think we will see them slowly fall to bits over the next 18 months. as the whole rotten Government is full of floors. I cannot think of an economy that has been run so badly as this one. I have say I do agree with everyone when they say its a one term government.
avatar
Stox 16

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2011-12-18
Age : 58
Location : Suffolk in the UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by astra on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:21 am

From virginmedia.com

The UK is back in recession after a surprise 0.2% contraction in the economy in the first quarter of the year, official figures have revealed.

The decline in gross domestic product (GDP) was driven by the biggest fall in construction output for three years, while the manufacturing sector failed to return to growth, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said.


Says it all dunnit?
avatar
astra
Deceased

Posts : 1864
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North East England.

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:27 am

Sure does! Bunch of bloody rank amatuers the lot of them.
avatar
Adele Carlyon

Posts : 412
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : Wigan, Lancs

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:59 am

Stox 16 wrote:I think we will see them slowly fall to bits over the next 18 months. as the whole rotten Government is full of floors. I cannot think of an economy that has been run so badly as this one. I have say I do agree with everyone when they say its a one term government.

There are places we can think of where the people in charge deliberately wreck the economy of their Country in order to reduce the ability of the population to resist. Mugabe's Zimbabwe is an obvious example, and many of the others are discernible by the sheer number of military uniforms on display at National celebrations.

Maybe when (not if) the electorate lose all interest in the Parliamentary process, we too can have a Military Government.

A new report from the Hansard Society has found people under 35 to be the most "disengaged" and "mistrusting" of politics.

Perhaps this explains why, on the same day, the Electoral Commission released results that suggests 56% of 17 to 24-year-olds may not be registered to vote.

Dr Ruth Fox, director of the Hansard Society's parliament and government programme, says that the research shows that young people are "less knowledgeable, less interested and less politically active than average" but that the figures are "complex and often contradictory".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8546366.stm
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Adele Carlyon on Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:10 am

The young seems preoccupied with facebook, x factor and BGT alas....celebrity and instant gratification is what gives far too many of them a buzz! Sad
avatar
Adele Carlyon

Posts : 412
Join date : 2012-04-13
Location : Wigan, Lancs

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by sickchip on Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:15 pm

I blame the educashun sistem........and of course the systemic depoliticization of younger generations.
avatar
sickchip

Posts : 1149
Join date : 2011-10-11

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:32 am

Adele Carlyon wrote:The young seems preoccupied with facebook, x factor and BGT alas....celebrity and instant gratification is what gives far too many of them a buzz! Sad

Yes Adele I could not agree more with you. What's more this should be a deep worry to us all? I also have no real answer to this issue at all.
avatar
Stox 16

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2011-12-18
Age : 58
Location : Suffolk in the UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by oftenwrong on Thu Apr 26, 2012 11:24 am

We once had a Lady Prime Minister who ran the country as though it were a housekeeping budget, and have seen the result.

But to use the analogy, most individuals understand that if you want more money it means having to work harder. UK PLC can only escape from recession by everyone working towards that goal, but Tory dogma has created instead a large pool of compliant unemployed. Which might be handy if they were also planning to restore the Manufacturing Industries.
avatar
oftenwrong
Sage

Posts : 11752
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Red Cat Woman on Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:36 pm

oftenwrong wrote:We once had a Lady Prime Minister who ran the country as though it were a housekeeping budget, and have seen the result.

But to use the analogy, most individuals understand that if you want more money it means having to work harder. UK PLC can only escape from recession by everyone working towards that goal, but Tory dogma has created instead a large pool of compliant unemployed. Which might be handy if they were also planning to restore the Manufacturing Industries.

how very true that is oftenwrong. lets face it, there is nothing this government likes than a wasted workforce on low wages while working within an economy that does work at all. as for Manufacturing industries you are spot on. but then this government does not back our manufacturing does it? it only pumps billions into banking just in case they up sticks and leave us. by the way. does anyone know how much a one ticket is to Greenland? as I would be dead happy to chip in for a ticket for one of them. as I do hate the very thought of Greenland missing out on our economic success story so far. ha ha ha ha
avatar
Red Cat Woman

Posts : 175
Join date : 2012-04-17

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Stox 16 on Sun May 20, 2012 3:34 am

Red Cat Woman wrote:
oftenwrong wrote:We once had a Lady Prime Minister who ran the country as though it were a housekeeping budget, and have seen the result.

But to use the analogy, most individuals understand that if you want more money it means having to work harder. UK PLC can only escape from recession by everyone working towards that goal, but Tory dogma has created instead a large pool of compliant unemployed. Which might be handy if they were also planning to restore the Manufacturing Industries.

how very true that is oftenwrong. lets face it, there is nothing this government likes than a wasted workforce on low wages while working within an economy that does work at all. as for Manufacturing industries you are spot on. but then this government does not back our manufacturing does it? it only pumps billions into banking just in case they up sticks and leave us. by the way. does anyone know how much a one ticket is to Greenland? as I would be dead happy to chip in for a ticket for one of them. as I do hate the very thought of Greenland missing out on our economic success story so far. ha ha ha ha

If you ask me RCW they do not care one jot about the UK economy at all. to them unemployment is a price worth paying. not they they themselves have ever been unemployed at all. but there can tell you all about what unemployed people are like and how they are all fiddling the benefit system and are lazy. it just amazing how they know all about unemployment without ever being unemployed.

avatar
Stox 16

Posts : 1064
Join date : 2011-12-18
Age : 58
Location : Suffolk in the UK

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by tlttf on Sun May 20, 2012 9:35 am

The Germans are great believers in using austerity as a means to lower debts and expand. Irrespective of what any economist says the Germans went through it all when the Berlin wall came down and the East reunited with the West, wages went down, costs went up and the Germans were taxed higher, pension were frozen and they had to work longer. It took them 10 years of austerity to finally arrive as the powerhouse of Europe. Understandable that they see it from a different angle to the French and Greeks.

tlttf
Banned

Posts : 1029
Join date : 2011-10-08

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by witchfinder on Sun May 20, 2012 10:52 am

The German reunification problem was a totaly different scenario to the crisis we face now, mainly because it was a German problem and did not affect anyone else.

If the whole of Europe follows austerity, then no one purchases anything, no businesses expand and industry becomes either stagnant or shrinks, the level of unemployment goes up and no one can sell anything.

I am afraid that Mr Obama has shown the way, and Mr Hollande will follow the successful path that America has taken - a combination of deficit reduction and investment to encourage growth, hence the reason why the US well on the road to recovery whilst we are back in recession.

avatar
witchfinder
Forum Founder

Posts : 703
Join date : 2011-10-07
Location : North York Moors

Back to top Go down

Re: Does new economic data show that austerity does not work?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 10 Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum