Is the United Kingdom doomed?

First topic message reminder :

Exactly what I’ve been predicting for a long time. I said that if the Tories, so hated in Scotland that they have only one MP, came to power at Westminster again, the Scots would decide that they’d rather go it alone. Apparently, Scottish independence now has majority backing north of the border and in the UK as a whole, according to a new poll.

Research by ComRes for ‘The Independent on Sunday’ and ‘The Sunday Mirror’ found that support for the move had risen sharply over recent months. The results are a boost for First Minister Alex Salmond as his Scottish National Party prepares to hold its autumn conference in Inverness.

In the UK overall, 39% of those surveyed agreed that Scotland should be an independent country - an increase of six points since May. The number disagreeing with the statement had fallen four points to 38%.
In Scotland, the proportion supporting independence was up 11 points over the period at 49%. Some 37% disagreed - down by nine points.

The SNP, which won an unprecedented overall majority in May elections, has promised to hold a referendum on independence towards the end of its five-year term.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/majority-back-scottish-independence-193447501.html

astra wrote:To my mind, this could have been good news

For years, while this had been mooted, and Robin Day sarcasticly goaded Margo Mac Donald - SNPs FIRST ever MP, in the 1970s, the UK government has had one half of an eye on the Scottish ball. Tory Bliar tried, and took most of the steam out of salmond's tuba! But, since Brown (with his girlfriend "Prudence") all past machinations have gone awry. Cameroon is doing nothing on this front. (We have seen that Cameron treats "His Highlanders" with the same contempt that Pitt did!

Scotland could make a go of things, but I do not - cannot believe that Alec Salmond is the man to lead the country in any mean or manner.

(For a start - name a living Scottish Diplomat!
Second - name a current Scottish 'Dignatory' who could fall into one of the ambassador's roles abroad - Rab C. Nesbitt?

I agree with all you have said up too a point astra, the reason he is leaving it until 2014 he is hoping that by then Scotland will be sick too the back teeth with Scam...er..on and his cuts because there is more too come that he will get the majority of yes votes, and if Scam...er...on interferes that will DEFINATELY cause a yes vote and of course Scam...er...on knows this he is not stupid he knows Scotland hates him and his party due too what Maggie did up here in the 1980s, is there a way round this astra?

In a referendum regarding Scotland I understand that the Scots living in England have a right to vote, bearing in mind there are more living in England than there are in Scotland, Salmon can beat his chest forever and it won't make a difference at all. Cameron wisely is letting him shout and will insist on an in-out referendum. Salmon for all his posturing would rather not or if pushed would like a backup plan for more concessions. They already have more rights than the English, what more do they want?

tlttf wrote:In a referendum regarding Scotland I understand that the Scots living in England have a right to vote, bearing in mind there are more living in England than there are in Scotland, Salmon can beat his chest forever and it won't make a difference at all. Cameron wisely is letting him shout and will insist on an in-out referendum. Salmon for all his posturing would rather not or if pushed would like a backup plan for more concessions. They already have more rights than the English, what more do they want?

Sorry but Salmond has said NO to if your not in Scotland for a least 6 months before the referendum plus you would have too be on the electoral roll to receive your polling card you will not be allowed to vote so if your working down south because there is not much work here you do not get too vote but if this was an election that would be a different story, don't underestimate Salmond he is not a stupid as you make out he is quite astute.

You've answered your own question Red. There is no more work in Scotland, those wanting work have moved south, where exactly is the benefit of splitting.
I don't under estimate salmon at all, he's simply posturing for more concessions.

tlttf wrote:You've answered your own question Red. There is no more work in Scotland, those wanting work have moved south, where exactly is the benefit of splitting.
I don't under estimate salmon at all, he's simply posturing for more concessions.

tittf I think I should say Im a Labour party member and voter have been for years and I believe we should stay within the UK we are better off that way until England puts a Tory Gov't into office we only have ONE Tory MP and ONE Yellow Tory here in Scotland, Im originally from Newcastle upon Tyne as most of my family on both sides right back too great great great grand parents so now you will have worked it out why I am so Labour.

So now I hope you can better understand my opinion on Alex Salmond and why Im worried.

".... the answer is for each region of England to have its own regional legislature"

So let's hear it for yet another layer of bureaucacy!! HOME RULE FOR OUR STREET.

oftenwrong wrote:".... the answer is for each region of England to have its own regional legislature"

So let's hear it for yet another layer of bureaucacy!! HOME RULE FOR OUR STREET.

How about Mob Rule for our streets that sounds better what do you think OW.

witchfinder wrote:The British Parliament in Westminster is the main constitutional legislature of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, it has equal and fair representation from all 4 constituent parts of the United Kingdom, and all parts of the United Kingdom are equal.

'Fair' in the sense we have governments forced on us we never voted for? 'Wales'/Cymru has not had a tory majority since the 1860s, yet we have been governed by these foreign trash for most of the time. It is a good reason to break free however much has been stolen: we cannot be worse off.

Penderyn wrote:

witchfinder wrote:The British Parliament in Westminster is the main constitutional legislature of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, it has equal and fair representation from all 4 constituent parts of the United Kingdom, and all parts of the United Kingdom are equal.

'Fair' in the sense we have governments forced on us we never voted for? 'Wales'/Cymru has not had a tory majority since the 1860s, yet we have been governed by these foreign trash for most of the time. It is a good reason to break free however much has been stolen: we cannot be worse off.

Its the same here in Scotland the problem is we have Democracy and the majority votes is the Gov't.

One problem is,The English only want whets good for England, the Jocks for Scotland, the Taffs for Wales, the Micks “well phuck the Micks I had enough of them in Armagh 1972”
We in the UK are only interested in our part of the UK, and in turn, with the EU, each country is only interested in what they can get out of it. I always liked the concept of the EU and still do, only it will never work until we ALL see ourselves as Europeans, which of course is exactly what we are.
Being born of an Italian Mother and an English Father, I feel I was born European and have never seen myself as anything else, in fact as a Child I spoke with an Italian Accent and was even referred to by some of my Dads siblings as “that Italian kid” and What do you want, I expect it was due to this that I have always felt more Italian than English, especially when my Italian Family treated both myself and Brother as Royalty (because of the war, we where the only Male relatives in the immediate family.
Other than the Euro zone Crisis which lets face it was bought about by the Global Crisis (America, they sneezed and the world caught a cold)) they/we are much stronger in it than outside it, if only we and they would stop all the flag waving and we could forget things like, The Armada, Napoleone Bonoparte (correct Italian spelling), Adolf Hitler, Julius Caesar and all the other stuff that keeps us divided.
France will never be anything other than France, so perhaps as the next task force comes back from the Falklands or Malvinas’ depending on who is the winner, perhaps they could stop off at France and give them a bit of a slapping, but only if they lend us their aircraft carrier.

One problem is,The English only want whets good for England, the Jocks for Scotland, the Taffs for Wales

We put whoever into Westminster, and get what we deserve. It seems that since the mists of time, when the numpties get to Westminster, they concentrate on what is inside the M25 ring (used to be termed "The Home Counties" - says it all!!) and the rest of England/Union can go and get stuffed. Untill this stops folk are going to be watching their own back yards first. This is not little england, it's survival.

"they concentrate on what is inside the M25 ring"

Which makes it easier to concentrate on the enemy.

penderyn & Redflag

When we have a Labour government, no doubt the tory residents of the home counties in SE England will blame the bloody Scots, the Welsh and the northerners.

In the north east of England there are just two Conservative MPs, therefore the government in Westminster is not representative of this particular region.

witchfinder wrote:penderyn & Redflag

When we have a Labour government, no doubt the tory residents of the home counties in SE England will blame the bloody Scots, the Welsh and the northerners.

In the north east of England there are just two Conservative MPs, therefore the government in Westminster is not representative of this particular region.

Your quite right WF and those Tories in the North East will not last for much longer as I am originally from the there thats where my strong Labour views come from, I am really worried about Salmond because if Scotland vote yes in the up coming referendum I am hoping I will be allowed to go back too Newcastle.

Can't see any problem in free movement RF. However, the Forth Road Bridge is being replaced so a slight detour by the Trossachs may be on the cards!

astra wrote:Can't see any problem in free movement RF. However, the Forth Road Bridge is being replaced so a slight detour by the Trossachs may be on the cards!

and interesting thought astra

witchfinder wrote:penderyn & Redflag

When we have a Labour government, no doubt the tory residents of the home counties in SE England will blame the bloody Scots, the Welsh and the northerners.

In the north east of England there are just two Conservative MPs, therefore the government in Westminster is not representative of this particular region.

So separate. All the English parties work for the City anyway.

Visitors from Outer Space would probably accept the explanation that England is divided in two:
1. London and 2. "Not London"

oftenwrong wrote:Visitors from Outer Space would probably accept the explanation that England is divided in two:
1. London and 2. "Not London"

Quite true...but I would also say the Tory party heartland of Surrey and the home counties as well. a great deal of the most evil policies come out of the Home counties. as this is the true home of right wing party members.

astra wrote:Can't see any problem in free movement RF. However, the Forth Road Bridge is being replaced so a slight detour by the Trossachs may be on the cards!

Will not mind the detour astra if Scotland votes Yes I will be sorry to leave my family and friends behind.

The Scottish thing is mentioned here.

I just wonder, seems to me that the English on here should desire Scottish Independence.

#1 The Barnett Formula will cost Westminster less, as Scotland will be written out of it, so money goes by the formula to Wales and Ireland.

#2 The £42 million a day that goes to the EU will HAVE to be recalculated, as Mr Salmond has said that as soon as he gets Independence, he throws Scotlands destiny to Europe.

That will be a tidy sum daily saved by the English treasury, which can be nicely divvied out anmong the African and Indian rich who need it much more than you do!

Hello V Mate. I think we should keep together, or how much would it cost England to deport all the Jocks back to Scotland. I dont know how many there are nationaly, but around 5 years ago there where more than 200,000 just in London. That said V. You will be more than welcome down here in Surrey.

Too many stuck up Tory's down here, and your sence of humour would be like a breath of fresh air.

Too many stuck up Tory's down here

Except at weekends, when they all head for the Shires in their Barbour waxed-jackets and green Wellies. Nose-to-tail on the A44, all the way to Chipping Norton.

Shires in their Barbour

Up here in the provinces, you can't get moving for the bu88ers in parts of Yorkshire and the Northumberland Border Reagion - all Horsey and bang bang shooting.

They waste more black powder than a 21 gun salute from the Royal Oak!

Makes you wonder how much white powder gets used ,too......

Is that Talcom Powder for drying the Fillies off from an excursion behind the Copse??

Clearly my life has not only been blameless, but sheltered, too....

It's MOST annoying when some greaser asks yer "OI ! what yer doin' wi' that there Talcom Powder hanging out yer pocket?, need a dusting? "

most disconcerting in 'civiilised' company!

astra wrote:It's MOST annoying when some greaser asks yer "OI ! what yer doin' wi' that there Talcom Powder hanging out yer pocket?, need a dusting? "

most disconcerting in 'civiilised' company!

And yet between Monday and Friday they are talking about the lower classes using there Talc powder.

One day the sun will go red giant and we will be fried like pigs in a blanket: but that will not be for a few billion years, apparently.

AwfulTruth wrote:One day the sun will go red giant and we will be fried like pigs in a blanket: but that will not be for a few billion years, apparently.

No. No. February 29th 2014 is the date. I read it in the tea leaves this morning. Admitted it was Yorkshire Tea, and that's not too reliable ooops

"the sun will go red giant and we will be fried like pigs in a blanket"

What we wouldn't have given, when I were a lad, to feel warm.
We slept in a cardboard box, and woke up with the lid sealed shut by the frost. We all had to suck cough-sweets before our breath would melt the ice to wash ourselves in two teaspoons of condensation.
Never saw a blanket until we sold our youngest to the Circus folk.

You posh folks in those cardboard boxes. How we used to envy you. Why, when I was a mere sprog.......( continues at endless dinner parties and Christmas gatherings until people plead for mercy)...

keenobserver1 wrote:

Redflag wrote:

Yes we are a Tory free zone here in Scotland but once again Cameron is sticking his big beak in thus inflaming the Scottish voter he tries to interfear with when or what question should be asked we will be Independent because Cameron to the Scots is like a "Red Rag to a Bull".

Like hell we will be independant!

I am not certain on what your saying, all Im saying if Scam..er..on keeps his nose OUT the true vote of the Scottish voter will prevail and my hope is at the moment we will vote NO although with a Tory Gov't that could change.

astra wrote:

Tory (she only had one MP in Scotland) here we where punished for not voting Tory

AYE that wiz Rifkind!!


Perth suffered innumarably because of that son of a witch!

Hi astra I keep forgetting your a Scot living in the land of my birth lovely Newcastle, I take it you will remember Maggies reign of terror here in Scotland and it makes me laugh Scam..er..on thinks because he chose a women for Tory leader in the Scottish Parliament we will vote Tory here in Scotland he is expecting her to do what Miss Goldie could not if that what he is waiting for "Hell will Freeze over before Scotland votes Tory", and his INCOMPETENCE will just add too our DETERMINATION not to let the BACKSTUD get us down.

Red, Astra according to Salmand is no longer a Scott as he's been out of Scotland for more than 3 years.

I'll challenge the wee bas' er lovechild to a duel!!

the noo!


Place of birth on the old birth certificate is Scotland, as with MANY other people, I hope I forsee many legal battles coming off!

I hope I forsee many legal battles coming off!



And I hope Salmand loses every one of them.

During the Cold War, inhabitants of the Baltic States had no nationality unless they threw their lot in with the Russians, who in any case treated them as an irrelevance. Earlier, Alsace was first French, then German, then France again. History is full of stories about People whose nationality changed with the fortunes of Governments.

Parts of the Pyrenees are both French and (Catalan) Spanish, and of course Switzerland has had three distinct nationalities co-existing for years.

Surely we can avoid going to war again over Berwick-on-Tweed?

OK you Engleesey can have Berwick!!


But my fellow Caterans will have to kidnap the Butcher!!

http://www.perthshire.co.uk/index.asp?lm=291

bobby wrote:I hope I forsee many legal battles coming off!



And I hope Salmand loses every one of them.

Me too bobby Salmond is only after what is in it for him, not what's best for Scotland, Sorry astra you will not be allowed to vote in the referendum and that is Salmond idea if you do not live here you NO VOTE but he wants to allow the 16 & 17 year olds to vote that is because he thinks he will be able too brain wash them into voting Yes or with promises he will not keep he is already more interested in this referendum than in doing something for the young unemployed.