Is the United Kingdom doomed?

First topic message reminder :

Exactly what I’ve been predicting for a long time. I said that if the Tories, so hated in Scotland that they have only one MP, came to power at Westminster again, the Scots would decide that they’d rather go it alone. Apparently, Scottish independence now has majority backing north of the border and in the UK as a whole, according to a new poll.

Research by ComRes for ‘The Independent on Sunday’ and ‘The Sunday Mirror’ found that support for the move had risen sharply over recent months. The results are a boost for First Minister Alex Salmond as his Scottish National Party prepares to hold its autumn conference in Inverness.

In the UK overall, 39% of those surveyed agreed that Scotland should be an independent country - an increase of six points since May. The number disagreeing with the statement had fallen four points to 38%.
In Scotland, the proportion supporting independence was up 11 points over the period at 49%. Some 37% disagreed - down by nine points.

The SNP, which won an unprecedented overall majority in May elections, has promised to hold a referendum on independence towards the end of its five-year term.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/majority-back-scottish-independence-193447501.html

bobby wrote:I hope I forsee many legal battles coming off!



And I hope Salmand loses every one of them.

Me too bobby Salmond is only after what is in it for him, not what's best for Scotland, Sorry astra you will not be allowed to vote in the referendum and that is Salmond idea if you do not live here you NO VOTE but he wants to allow the 16 & 17 year olds to vote that is because he thinks he will be able too brain wash them into voting Yes or with promises he will not keep he is already more interested in this referendum than in doing something for the young unemployed.

bobby wrote:I hope I forsee many legal battles coming off!



And I hope Salmand loses every one of them.

I think that will go without saying bobby he could not win his way out of a paper bag.

If they continue to send round flabby Englishmen (even with Scottish names) the Cityserfs are bound to lose Scotland. If only we could ditch the Labour yesmen in Cymru they'd come here too, and we'd be free at once. Oh that delightful bossclass charm! How could it fail?

One thing is certain, it is mearly a matter of pure chance where anyone is born.

In 90% of countries you will find people of many nationalities, including Scotland.

What is presently determining many decisions is not National pride but working out the beifit in financial terms for or against and only in the short term.

What happens in the countries now dependant on oil revinue when the oil runs out and the same for gas etc;

But getting back to Scotland, what possible sense is there in breaking up a union that has been of benifit to all concerned when the outcome could not possibly be predicted?.

Surely there should be more coming together for a common perpose than breaking things up, the obvious outcome in the long term is an independant Yorkshire.

polyglide,

There is a clear North/South divide when it comes to politics.

Tory south. Labour north.

That's probably why we have a north/south economic inequality too.......the tories like kicking the north, and the labour party pander to the south for votes.

It may be just me, but it seems that the real problem with unrest in the 'provinces' is just that,outside of the South East people believe that all power and prosperity lies in the South East, and they are, to a large extent, ignored.

Many north of M25 (north circular) feel they are 2nd class citizens. It is only recently that some companies are finding it beneficial to move north.
The loss of industry in the late 20th century heightened the perception, and actual fact. I don't think the south ever gave it a thought that industry kept this country going, and its loss was a disaster. They believed that London was the centre of importance. I don't blame any government in particular, or blame all in general.
I believe that if we had given more heed to the north and west of the UK and invested there we would not have such a cry for independence. Sure, there will always be Scots. and Welsh Nationalists, but if all had been treated alike, as much as possible, sharing out the Nations wealth and prosperity, investing in every area, people would not see the need to 'go it alone'.

But then, what do I know.

Independence for Lincolnshire. Up the Yellowbellies

[www.bbc.co.uk/lincolnshire/asop/]
The building on Burton Road, Lincoln that is now home to the Museum of Lincolnshire Life was once the barracks of the Royal North Lincolnshire Militia. The officers of this regiment would wear bright yellow waistcoats on the battlefield. This made it easier for their men to spot them (let's overlook the fact that it also made them rather obvious targets...) and also earned them the name Lincolnshire Yellowbellies.

bobby wrote:Red, Astra according to Salmand is no longer a Scott as he's been out of Scotland for more than 3 years.

I heard something last week and was not too sure after the recent lying by Salmond, I tend to believe what was said that Wee alec is a Tartan Tory or maybe he has Napoleonic syndrome.

There is a well-documented tendency for Scots to become more Scottish, the further away they travel, but my work has frequently involved close interaction with Scots in their homeland, and they have always impressed me as well-adjusted, with a lively and kindly interest in strangers such as myself.

Scottish people are distinct from the English, but so long as that is acknowledged they seem content to get along with their neighbours well fine, so I don't believe that Mr. Salmond will get the necessary support for his apartheid policy.

He just wants more cash from Westminster, and who can blame him for trying?

Mr. Salmond will get the necessary support for his apartheid policy.

mmm, there are 195-6 independant countries on planet earth, none consider their self determination an apartheid policy, this makes your viewpoint rather obscure.

Do not infest me or the rest of the world with your lack of national identity and scream foul, our independance has nothing to do with the English, its to do with the Scots. Get over it.

QUOTE: ".... our independance has nothing to do with the English, its to do with the Scots."

"If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out." - Matthew 18:9

bobby wrote:I hope I forsee many legal battles coming off!



And I hope Salmand loses every one of them.

Thanks bobby and I think you are quite right he will loose the most important one the referendum in 2014, I was born in Newcastle as where my parents and right back as far as I can go 1837 I did my family tree and that was very revealing. Although I have lived in Scotland for the majority of my life except for 4years I lived in London because they was no work in Scotland just like now all the jobs are kept within the M25, anything outside of that area does not count.

QUOTE: ".... our independance has nothing to do with the English, its to do with the Scots."

"If thine eye offends thee, pluck it out." - Matthew 18:9.

Let me repeat, its nothing to do with the English, go and dig out a more relevant response, your non-sequitars are embarassing.


Pro-Scottish does not equate to anti-English, simple really.

If you are not resident in Scotland then you have no right to vote for changes that will only affect those that are residents.

Simple really, if you are liable for Scottish taxes then you get a democratic vote.

I would like to see English independance if the Scots don't go for it. Maybe we coulde have a referendum on that

I would like to see English independance if the Scots don't go for it. Maybe we coulde have a referendum on that.

I agree, I have never understood why the English are not more independant minded, I suppose when you are the largest majority and all the levers of power are under your control, then in effect you are independant.

Once Scotland is free then the Labour party will merge with the Liberals to form a single party.

The game was over for left wing socialism a decade or more ago, after independance they will become a curiousity like the Raving Loony Party.

Good riddance.

bobby wrote:Knowing how Scottish independence will effect the 2015 General Election in the Tories favour, I’m hoping it may cause a mobilisation of the potential Labour voters who otherwise would stay at home thinking it to be a done deal, with a massive Labour victory.

Do not worry bobby Scotland will vote NO in 2014, Salmond has been caught out telling lies to the Scottish public, and just to let you know the Scots will be there with all of England to make sure we have a Labour gov't in 2015, helped along by the Tory incompetence and scandal.

Do not worry bobby Scotland will vote NO in 2014, Salmond has been caught out telling lies to the Scottish public, and just to let you know the Scots will be there with all of England to make sure we have a Labour gov't in 2015, helped along by the Tory incompetence and scandal..

Scotland may indeed vote no to independance, but what makes you think they will vote yes to Labour in a General Election ?

Perhaps the Scottish electorate will vote for the SNP as an alternative to full independance, ever considered that possibility ? It is only the archaic first past the post voting system that may prevent the SNP sweeping Labour under the carpet in a GE.

The question is probably whether Uncle Alex can continue to operate a minority government WITHOUT the prospect of independence dangling before a salivating electorate.

The question is probably whether Uncle Alex can continue to operate a minority government WITHOUT the prospect of independence dangling before a salivating electorate..

mmm, I see you have your finger on the Scottish pulse, Uncle Alex does not operate a minority government.

But your spelling is spot on.

But he has to worry about the health of any five members out of 69.

But he has to worry about the health of any five members out of 69..

I see you are intent on living up to your name, have at it.

But your spelling is spot on

Not something we'll ever accuse you of Tosh...... "embarrassing", "independent", "independence". Hmm, somebody might wonder if I used to be a teacher!

Not something we'll ever accuse you of Tosh...... "embarrassing", "independent", "independence". Hmm, somebody might wonder if I used to be a teacher!.

I pray you were never a teacher.

Tosh praying......so you are religious after all, despite all those protestations to the contrary? There's no need to hide your faith, you're amongst friends!

Tosh wrote:


Pro-Scottish does not equate to anti-English, simple really.

The last time I was in Edinburgh, someone had written Scottish not British in purple chalk on the base of a statue. An equally well-equpt person had crossed out not and replaaced it with AND in orange chalk.

I couldn't decide whether I was more impressed by the sentiment or the medium

Tosh wrote:

I would like to see English independance if the Scots don't go for it. Maybe we coulde have a referendum on that.

I agree, I have never understood why the English are not more independant minded, I suppose when you are the largest majority and all the levers of power are under your control, then in effect you are independant.

Can we have a vote for Yorkshire independence as well?

Can we have a vote for Yorkshire independence as well?

Why not? And while we're at it, Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg wants a separate time zone for Somerset, fifteen minutes behind London time.

(Hope everyone in the UK remembers to put their clocks back tonight!)

oftenwrong wrote:British sovereign territory, until Argentina decides to invade again.

After which it will still be British sovereign territory.

Ivan wrote:

Can we have a vote for Yorkshire independence as well?

Why not? And while we're at it, Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg wants a separate time zone for Somerset, fifteen minutes behind London time.

(Hope everyone in the UK remembers to put their clocks back tonight!)

I wish you all would not be so hard on Scotland, after all it was Salmond and his tartan Tories that have brought this up since the SNP party was formed, the majority of the Scots WANT TO STAY AS PART OF THE UK,. As for the Mogg he is as daft as a brush along with the rest of the back bench Tories.

Salmond and his tartan Tories

lol. if the SNP were acting like Tories then they wouldn't have squashed Labour and be sitting with a majority in the Scottish Parliamemt.

The Scots will have two more years of Tory austerity, ping-pong politics and high unemployment before they vote, this will tip the balance toward independence.

It is impossible to ignore the tide of self determination, Scots put the SNP in power even when Labour was supposedly flying high, we have simply had enough of being an afterthought for a central government that wants to be an American state.

The Scots know where their cultural destiny lies, and we want to shape it without foreign interference, we can do no worse on our own.

Goodbye and Good Luck.

Tosh wrote:

Salmond and his tartan Tories

Goodbye and Good Luck.

We should be so lucky!

We should be so lucky!

Is that you and the monarchy ?

Tosh wrote:

Salmond and his tartan Tories

lol. if the SNP were acting like Tories then they wouldn't have squashed Labour and be sitting with a majority in the Scottish Parliamemt.

The Scots will have two more years of Tory austerity, ping-pong politics and high unemployment before they vote, this will tip the balance toward independence.

It is impossible to ignore the tide of self determination, Scots put the SNP in power even when Labour was supposedly flying high, we have simply had enough of being an afterthought for a central government that wants to be an American state.

The Scots know where their cultural destiny lies, and we want to shape it without foreign interference, we can do no worse on our own.

Goodbye and Good Luck.

Salmond is only behaving himself at the moment or until the Scots vote Yes, then Scotland would see the tartan Tory at its worst and only last week he has been found out lying to the Scottish public just as Scam..er..on LIED to the entire UK before the 2010 general election.

Salmond is only behaving himself at the moment or until the Scots vote Yes, then Scotland would see the tartan Tory at its worst

Are you still at school, or am I expected to respond to this utter juvenile guff ?

Is it Salmond or Lamont proposing Tory style cuts in Scotland ?

and only last week he has been found out lying to the Scottish public

This is known as a logical fallacy.

Labour wander around the streets of Scotland baffled why the public has deserted them for the SNP, and they just cannot see the elephant in the room.

Neither the Labour party nor the Scottish Labour party are interested in what the Scottish people want, and the SNP is interested, that is why their popularity has risen over the last decade.

Attacking the Tories just isn't good enough anymore, we have had enough of the Westminster Punch and Judy show, we want consensus politics because we see the benefits, its simple really.

Tatties 'n' Neeps for tea again soon.

Tatties 'n' Neeps for tea again soon..

Better than crumbs.

Enjoy!