Ken or Boris?

First topic message reminder :

May 3 is the date set for the London Mayoral election. The three main candidates are Boris Johnson (Tory), who has been Mayor of London since 2008, Ken Livingstone (Labour), who was Mayor from 2000 until 2008, and Brian Paddick (Lib Dem). As Paddick is currently polling around 7%, I think we can discount him.

From 1986 to 2000, London had been the only major city in the Western world without its own elected authority. That was because when Labour regained control of the Greater London Council (GLC) in 1981, Thatcher, an enemy of democracy, decided to abolish it. She also abolished six metropolitan councils which just happened to be Labour-controlled. It's hardly surprising that she was a personal friend of General Pinochet, a man not noted for his democratic credentials.

Ken Livingstone was born in Streatham in London in 1945 and went to Tulse Hill Comprehensive School. He worked as a cancer research laboratory technician at the Royal Marsden Hospital. In 1971, he became a councillor in Lambeth, and he was the leader of the GLC from 1981 until its abolition in 1986. He was the MP for Brent East from 1987 until 2001.

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, a descendant of an illegitimate child of George II, was born in 1964 and went to Eton and Oxford, where, as a member of the Bullingdon Club (in the company of Cameron and Osborne) he spent a night in a police cell after trashing a restaurant. He became a journalist and was the Tory MP for Henley from 2001 to 2008. Once elected Mayor of London (on a salary of around £150,000 a year), he resumed work as a ‘Daily Telegraph’ columnist on a further £250,000 a year.

Johnson, who has campaigned vigorously against the 50% top rate of tax and has frequently defended bankers, is a serial adulterer, compulsive liar, racist, and even a thief, once being made to return an article which he looted from the home of Tariq Aziz in Baghdad. He has a reputation for running up exorbitant expenses, and in short, he’s thoroughly unsuitable for holding any office.

So rumour has it Blam.

tlttf wrote:So rumour has it Blam.

Just malicious rumours spread by disillusioned tories, not to be believed, just like the NHS is safe in our hands, and we are all in it together malarkey. Hope you have all filled up with petrol, and are now buying cold pasties.

Just malicious rumours spread by disillusioned tories

Ahhh the kings of hypocrisy strike again.......Didn't Labour pay people to do that job? Damien McBride ring any bells?

I always favour having a Tory government - and Tories in powerful positions generally, such as the London Mayor.

To have to put up with any other option is like going to the gym and finding the punchbag removed...

During previous governments, one could rely upon an amusing conflict between Ken Livingston and the PM. Now the PM's main concern is with Buffoon Boris it's all gone a bit quiet. Why is that? Where are the spin-merchants when you want 'em?

tlttf wrote:It seems that Boris is still ahead in the polls, perhaps labour should send the team that did so well in Bradford?

With Doris's antics Ken will not need any team not even the A TEAM and just remember MUD does stick and Doris is part of the Tory party and the sleaze has been oozing out of the Tory party over the last ten days. :affraid:

But he's still doing better for London than Livingstone did. By the way did you know Livingstone has 5 kids with different partners, but hey if we voted on sleazability where would it all end!

Could make world headlines if election for Mayor of London was dependant upon the number of sired bastards.

By the way did you know Livingstone has 5 kids with different partners

tlttf. Ken has five children by three different women, two of whom he married and the other with whom he was in a long-term relationship.

Johnson has also been married twice. He has four children by his second wife, in addition to at least one by a mistress. Another ex-mistress has documented how their relationship ended with a visit to an abortion clinic.

"Boris Johnson in foul-mouthed rant at Ken Livingstone over tax claims":-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/03/boris-johnson-rant-ken-livingstone

tlttf wrote:But he's still doing better for London than Livingstone did. By the way did you know Livingstone has 5 kids with different partners, but hey if we voted on sleazability where would it all end!

Well from what I have heard in the dishing out to women in there favours Ken and Doris are equal, you say Doris is doing better for Londoners which ones the big bosses in the Private sector like the Bus service or the Trains service with a Hike of fares of anything up to 13%, or all the Jobs he has found within the Mayoral assistants (12) more so that he does not have to run London he is too busy writing his column for the Daily Tory or his own MEMOIRS.

Nice one Red, however apart from putting bus fares up by 7%(he has no control over trains at all). You shouldn't forget the cycling highways he's creating (I personally hate them). The upgrade of the tube system. Removal of the bendy bus (also known as the freeby (saving £millions per year for further infrastructure investment). + being somebody that actually lives in London the removal of the western extension of the congestion charge zone. Mustn't forget refusing to raise the con charge to £25 for 4x4's. Yes all round a much better Mayor.

If you think the above could have been done without the help of the "City" your badly informed.

tlttf wrote:But he's still doing better for London than Livingstone did.

Len Duvall is a Labour Party member of the London Assembly and one of Ken Livingstone’s chief cheerleaders. Previously he was Chairman of Ken Livingstone’s Metropolitan Police Authority and oversaw an increase in violent crime – including the tragedy of 27 teenage murders in 2007. Now it is election time he is making claims on crime again and trying to discredit the actions of Mayor Boris Johnson. Independent sources have discredited Ken Livingstone’s policing claims describing them as ‘fanciful’. Ken Livingstone’s integrity lies in tatters as he attempts to run-down the efforts of the very police force that work hard to protect Londoners from all crime. To try and shore up the failing efforts of his Mayoral candidate, Len wrote an article for the Your Ken website attempting to discredit Boris Johnson. Here is the detail of just how wrong Len Duvall is.

Claim: Robbery is up by 12.4%
Reality: Official figures show that under Boris Johnson robberies have fallen 16.7 per cent when compared to Ken Livingstone’s final 44 months in office (MPS statistics. Comparing 44 months of Ken Livingstone (September 2004 – April 2008) with 44 months of Boris Johnson (May 2008 - December 2011).

Claim: Burglary has increased by 6%
Reality: Despite difficult economic times that are affecting all Londoners, official figures show that under Boris Johnson residential burglary has fallen by 1.6 per cent when compared to Ken Livingstone’s final 44 months in office
(MPS statistics. Comparing 44 months of Ken Livingstone (September 2004 – April 2008) with 44 months of Boris Johnson (May 2008 - December 2011).

Claim: Boris Johnson and the Tories may talk tough on crime, but they won’t back up their words with the hard cash and police who are needed to keep our streets safe.
Reality: Boris Johnson has invested an extra £132 million in the Met. The Mayor’s 2011 Budget secured an extra £42 million for the Met and a recent £90 million from the Treasury has increased total additional investment to £132 million (GLA, Mayor’s Final Budget 2011-12, link; Evening Standard, 30 January 2012, link).
This illustrates just what a strong advocate for London Boris Johnson is. He has negotiated extra money from central government when savings are having to be made across the board thanks to the chilling effects of the Eurozone crisis coupled with the disastrous economic legacy left behind by the previous Labour Government.
Crime in London has been cut by 10.6 per cent, robberies are down 16.7 per cent and murders have decreased by 23.6 per cent. Youth violence has fallen by 13.8 per cent since 2008, and bus crime has fallen by 32.9 per cent(MPS statistics. Comparing 44 months of Ken Livingstone (September 2004 – April 2008) with 44 months of Boris Johnson (May 2008 - December 2011).By May there will be 1,000 more police officers on the streets than when Boris was elected in May 2008 (Mayor of London, The Mayor’s Consultation Budget, 22nd December 2011, p.1, link).

Claim: In Tower Hamlets robbery is up 41 per cent
Reality: Official figures show that in a 44 month comparison with Ken Livingstone’s period in office, robberies in Tower Hamlets have fallen 28.7 per cent (MPS statistics. Comparing 44 months of Ken Livingstone (September 2004 – April 2008) with 44 months of Boris Johnson (May 2008 - December 2011). In the past year to January 2012 robberies in Tower Hamlets have decreased by 4.7 per cent – by whatever measure you use, Len Duvall is wrong (MPS Website, link).

Claim: Robbery in Redbridge has increased by 26 per cent
Reality: Official figures show that in a 44 month comparison with Ken Livingstone’s period in office, robberies in Redbridge have fallen 17.3 per cent (MPS statistics. Comparing 44 months of Ken Livingstone (September 2004 – April 2008) with 44 months of Boris Johnson (May 2008 - December 2011).

Claim: Ken would raise £80 million over four years by ensuring that Transport for London pay the full cost of Safer Transport Command.
Reality: A 2010 MPA report on the deal between TfL and the Met states that the contract follows the financial principle of full cost recovery and 'that TfL is required to pay the full cost of those services provided.' (MPA,Finance and resources Committee, 17 June 2010, Link). City AM’s Fact Checker concluded that ‘The number of officers in the Met Police has fluctuated around the 32,000 mark for the last four years. Ken’s plan to fund increased police staffing levels from TfL contributions looks fanciful’
(City AM, 9 February 2012, link).

atv. I don't know who wrote your posting, but you certainly didn't, so its probably a breach of copyright and strictly speaking should be deleted. If it's another extract from the 'Baroness Warsi Guide For Tory Sycophants', perhaps you should declare as much.

As usual 'The Evening Standard' is running a smear campaign against Ken. After the last election, Johnson rewarded the editor, Veronica Wadley, by making her chairperson of the London Arts Council. Then he lobbied successfully to have his friend Sarah Sands installed as the new editor.

Sunny Hundal has described what a nasty piece of work Johnson is, a man who doesn't think anyone should challenge him and who doesn't think rules apply to him. He's also written about all the money Johnson has wasted - for example, £60 million on a cable car nobody wants, £7.8 million for just five new Routemaster buses, and £140 million on a bike hire scheme he promised would cost nothing.

Unlike some people, I provide the sources I use, not second hand references:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/apr/03/boris-johnson-free-pass-too-long

Ivan wrote:atv. I don't know who wrote your posting, but you certainly didn't, so its probably a breach of copyright and strictly speaking should be deleted. If it's another extract from the 'Baroness Warsi Guide For Tory Sycophants', perhaps you should declare as much.

You are correct, it was taken from the "Not Again Ken" site, But as the links are supplied surely that is general knowledge and not a breach of copyright.
As I have said before, When one doesn't like the 'message', 'shooting the messenger' is always advisable.

Some people only buy a newspaper to find out what they are supposed to have an opinion on today.

Ivan, a very interesting Guardian article.

I Watched Chris Patten’s BBC ten o clock news tonight, and wasn’t it interesting that not one word of the terrible behaviour of the incumbent Lord Mayor of London. I wonder what would have been shown on the self same BBC news had Ken Livingstone behaved in such a way.

One thing, if some idiots out there think Herr Cameron is doing a good job, it must be refreshing for them to know that there is someone lurking in the wings to take his job, and has an equally bad uncontrollable temper.

Where do the Tories find these people.

I don't think they have to look for them


Don't take my word for it. Read The Economist. Or The Guardian.

As the main Icelandic daily Morgunblaðið puts it:
Íslendinga vera klára þjóð sem hefði herst við þá erfiðleika sem kynslóðir þeirra hefðu gengið í gegnum og þeir vissu ....

Birds of a feather ....

Johnson is an arrogant, pompous man who has played his eccentric buffoon card far too often. He is a venal presence in a sea of corruption which needs to be cleansed. He and his ilk believe they have a carte-blanche to behave in any way that suits them, they started that way from their schooling, progressed to university . Now he is pre programmed to be duplicitous on a daily basis.
Q+A of the Mayor on BBC parliamentary channel sees him ducking , bobbing and weaving his way out of answering the questions posed to him all the time.
He reminds me of a parody from a Black Adder episode of a toff sending his troops to certain death , then regaling a completely false story to his fellow officers back at camp over brandy.


When Ken was on gay pride marches, Boris Johnson was supporting section 28.

Boris Johnson is a Euro-sceptic, British right-wing journalist and Conservative Member of Parliament.
Full Name:
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson
Born:
New York, 19th June 1964
Education:

Eton, before studying Classics at Balliol College, Oxford
Career:
1983 – President of the Oxford Union
1987 – Trainee reporter for The Times
1987 – Reporter for the Wolverhampton Express and Star

1987 – Leader and feature writer at The Daily Telegraph
1989 – Became European Community correspondent for The Daily Telegraph
1994 – Assistant Editor from The Daily Telegraph
1994 – Political columnist for The Spectator (1 year)

1997 – Unsuccessful in becoming Member of Parliament for Clwyd South :affraid:
1999 – Became Editor of The Spectator
2001 – Became Member of Parliament for Henley-on-Thames
2003 – Became Vice-Chairman of the Conservative Party
2004 – Appointed Shadow Minister for the Arts

2004 – Nominated in 2004 for a BAFTA television award
2004 – Sacked as Minister of Arts after allegations of adulterous affair. :affraid:
2005 – December – Resigns from Spectator editorship to take up position as Shadow Minister for Higher Education.
2008 – May – Elected Mayor of London by over 1,000,000 Londoners.
( C ) Google, wit SC.

Blamhappy wrote:I haven't heard anything about Ken. Has he been campaigning?

I suppose the best time to campaign is just before the vote. You can do all you like for a month, but it can all be undermined by one bad headline. If you leave it until the last minute, you can sway public opinion.

I'm not surprised that Boris is leading in the polls, but anything can happen in politics, eh?

Blam Ken has being campaigning for some months now he has a campaign London red bus, he has also being taking part in debates on TV and radio with Doris.

Plus Doris has started a smear campaign against Ken because he feels the job of Mayor is his by rights Birth rights,what a laugh and a joke he is do not ask him into your home he has two fingers the same length (he steals from peoples homes did while aboard on a business trip) and was forced to return the item for all the money he has it just goes to prove what a greedy he is.

I watch the news daily and didn't know about the campaigning. Oops.

Problem is, while Ken sounds smarmy when he speaks, Boris sounds upbeat and loveable.

We could really do with a better lefty rival. I think Boris will win again.

I'm impressed atv, you've managed to keep a post that doesn't suck up to all things labour, though you have been given a small rap from Ivan for doing exactly what he does. Strange world innit.

: Ken Livingstone will claim he will cut fares. (LBC Radio, 3 April 2012).

Reality: Independent factcheckers confirm Ken Livingstone’s plan will take more than £1 billion out of the transport budget. Channel 4 Factcheck states: ‘TfL argues that if Mr Livingstone was to cut fares by 7 per cent, the move would reduce the income from fares by £1.12bn over this parliament’ (Channel 4, Factcheck Blog, 24 January 2012, link).

Ken has broken promises on fares twice before. Ken has broken fares promises twice before:
What he said: Before the 2000 election said: ‘I will freeze bus and tube fares in real terms for four years’ (Ken Livingstone, Manifesto, 2000, link).
What he did: Before the election in January 2004 the single bus fare for those in outer London was increased from 70p to £1 a rise of 43 per cent. Cash fares on the Tube rose by up to 25 per cent. Travelcards also increased (TfL, Press Release, 2 January 2004, link; TfL, Board Papers: Agenda Item 5, 29 October 2003, link). The weekly bus pass for those in outer London rose from £7.50 to £9.50, a rise of 26.6 per cent. For those travelling in central London it rose by 11.7 per cent, from £8.50 to £9.50. Livingstone himself admits in his recent memoirs: ‘I decided to increase the fares before the [2004] election’ (Ken Livingstone, You Can’t Say That, p. 491).
What he said: Before the 2004 election he promised not to increase fares above inflation: ‘The new fare package is intended to stand for the next four years with further annual increases pegged to no more than the rate of inflation’ (Ken Livingstone, Thirty-fourth Mayor’s report to the Assembly, 17 September 2003, link).
What he did: Just months after the election, in September 2004, Ken Livingstone increased fares by inflation +1 per cent on the Tube and inflation +10 per cent on the buses – this meant that a single bus fare rose to £1.20, a 20 per cent rise (Mayor of London, Press Release, 21 October 2004, link). A year later, he went further. In October 2005, it was announced that a single tube fare would rise from £2 to £3, a 50 per cent rise and a single bus fare rose from £1.20 to £1.50, a rise of 25 per cent (TfL, Press Release, 4 October 2005, link). When Ken Livingstone left office fares stood at £2.00 for a single bus fare and £4.00 for a single tube fare. This means a 100 per cent increase for both single bus and tube fares since his election promise (TfL, Press Release, 30 October 2007, link).

Why don't you all just understand one thing. Neither candidate is in the race to benefit London. They are both in it for the status, and the financial gain in salary. The rest is subservient to that.

If everything that has been posted on here about each candidate is true, do you think either is a suitable leader? If you do, why keep on about their misdemeanours, slagging one off against the other, when they both appear to be similar in their shortcomings.

Leaders should be people who are respected and have earned that respect of the people. Not like the current Government, or in my view, either candidate in the London Elections.

Each one will spend the peoples money, not their own, on their particular pet project.

Cynical old me.

I wouldn't vote for either, but then I am not in the London area.

Fair point trevor, the difference between them both is under Boris regardless of his profile, things have actually been done and not spoken about as Livingstone does.

Presently he's making outrageous claims on what he will do.
1 Put a copper in every school - reality the teachers don't want it, they already have a police liaison officer.
2 He will not bring back the western extension to the congestion charge zone, nor raise the cost to £25 - reality in 2010 he stated (to rapturous applause from his cronies) that this would be the first thing he would do.
3 He would make transport for London pay for extra police for transport crime - They already do.

The list whilst not exhaustive could turn into quite a monologue. Oh by the way he stated that he would hang a banker a day whilst forgetting to mention he was also evading tax.

No doubt we can believe what the candidates say in the same measure as we were able to believe the utterances of Messrs. Cameron and Clegg prior to the General Election.

i.e. Black is White until they change their minds.

One thing is for sure :once Cameron's new proposals for snooping on everyone's secret activities become law, tlttf's dark glasses will have to come off, in the interests of the advancement of civil liberties. We can but hope that he is graciously permitted by the Tory Electronic Surveillance Bureau to retain the remainder of his Lone Ranger outfit...

The list whilst not exhaustive could turn into quite a monologue. Oh by the way he stated that he would hang a banker a day whilst forgetting to mention he was also evading tax.



tlttf



Posts: 189
Join date: 2011-10-08




A banker a day. Sounds reasonable enough:)

Can you really blame anyone for being 'put off' politics. The ordinary person in the street just doesn't know the jargon.

For instance. We will = we won't We should = but we shan't. We can = but why should we. If you vote for us = we'll ignore you anyway.

And the hardest . 'We're alright = so blow you jack.

If we could only get used to those terms we'd be OK.

By the way. I'm a beautiful 23 year old blonde = I'm a liar.

Just watched Ken & Boris on Newsnight & it made me want to run away screaming. Boris obviously has no brain & has lost none of his Bullingdon Club tactics. Ken speaks with honesty & integrity despite being provoked by Johnson on every level. I'm pleased that I live at the opposite end of the country but I can still have an opinion. Ken for Mayor!

tlttf. Yes, things have been done under Johnson; for example, £7.8 million has been wasted on five buses. Not that Johnson himself has done anything useful. As soon as he became Mayor he went on holiday, appointed five deputies at Londoners' expense and went to work for 'The Daily Telegraph'.

What a pity that you don't know the difference between tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasion (illegal), or was that 'mistake' a deliberate Tory smear tactic? Ken set up a company from which he pays the wages of people he's employed to work on his campaign - all perfectly legal. No doubt you think he should be pay tax twice, while a number of Cabinet members and other Tory supporters like Philip Green stash their money overseas and pay nothing at all.

Ivan wrote:tlttf. Yes, things have been done under Johnson; for example, £7.8 million has been wasted on five buses. Not that Johnson himself has done anything useful. As soon as he became Mayor he went on holiday, appointed five deputies at Londoners' expense and went to work for 'The Daily Telegraph'.

What a pity that you don't know the difference between tax avoidance (legal) and tax evasion (illegal), or was that 'mistake' a deliberate Tory smear tactic? Ken set up a company from which he pays the wages of people he's employed to work on his campaign - all perfectly legal. No doubt you think he should be pay tax twice, while a number of Cabinet members and other Tory supporters like Philip Green stash their money overseas and pay nothing at all.

Thanks Ivan I suppose the time you talk of was when London had the riots and Doris would not come back? from what I have heard Doris has around 13 assistants so that he does not have to any work in regards to his Mayoral duties he also gave his assistants a pay rise above inflation something nobody else is getting in London.

In regard to tax avoidance that is something the Tories know all about most of there donors could qualify for GSCEs if it was in the school curriculum, did you also know that he is writing his memoirs while he is working for the Daily Telegraph it just goes to show how much time he is spending doing the job of Mayor NONE.

Ken or Boris? Isn't it time for a change?

sickchip wrote:Ken or Boris? Isn't it time for a change?

Who do you suggest Brian Paddock? or maybe the UKIP candidate who is just the cheaper version of Doris or maybe the BNP would they be a good change?

I want Jenny Jones!

Might get the ex-copper. What larks!

Neither Jenny Jones nor Brian Paddick stands a snowflake's chance in hell of getting elected. The only significant thing about their votes is the second preference of their supporters. In the end, it all comes down to Ken or Boris - a born and bred Londoner, or a lazy, arrogant, foul-mouthed, out-of-touch Bullingdon Club toff.

Brian Paddick is OK if you want a one trick pony, all he can and ever wants to talk about is the police (sory two trick pony, I was forgetting Gay rights).

Watching the 4 way debate chaired by Paxman last night, showed Doris for exactly what he is. He kept butting in, then Filibustered his way through the rest of the so called debate. He wouldn’t give anyone else a chance to speak, but felt he had some god given right to the platform.

One of the best things to happen to London was getting rid of chopper Cutler and the next high point will be the demise of Doris Johnson. There are probably better and more suitable people than Ken for the job, but until they put themselves forward, Ken will do nicely.

Appearing on last night’s edition of BBC’s Newsnight programme, Mr Livingstone, Boris Johnson, and Brian Paddick agreed to a suggestion by Green candidate Jenny Jones that all four publish their tax details.
Tory Mr Johnson, Lib-Dem Brian Paddick and the Green Party’s Jenny Jones stuck to their word today.
Mr Livingstone told the BBC’s flagship political show: “I’m happy to publish details of everything I’ve earned in the last four years.”
http://www.mayorwatch.co.uk/livingst...rows/201220539

Now it appears our Ken has refused to publish his tax records, and instead asked rivals to
publish in full the tax returns for their households for this mayoral term. It appears Livingstone is not keen to follow Johnson's lead and you have to wonder why, as Ken was the one who was so adamant that Boris publish his tax returns.

Could it be that he will carry on with his insinuations to divert attention from his own hypocrisy and his own tax avoidance measures.

IMHO, Ken Livingstone is not only a tax cheat and a hypocrite, but a liar as well.

Ivan wrote:Neither Jenny Jones nor Brian Paddick stands a snowflake's chance in hell of getting elected. The only significant thing about their votes is the second preference of their supporters. In the end, it all comes down to Ken or Boris - a born and bred Londoner, or a lazy, arrogant, foul-mouthed, out-of-touch Bullingdon Club toff.

I agree Ivan Londoner's are not going to vote for a L/D Mayor not after what they have done and by the time of the Mayoral Election Londoner's will know what the Tories have done also so Doris has not got a hope in hell of being elected.

In the end, it all comes down to Ken or Boris - one a born and bred Tax cheating lying hypocritical Londoner, or a lazy, arrogant, foul-mouthed, out-of-touch Bullingdon Club toff.

Tough choice!!!!!!!!!!