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Ken or Boris?

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Ken or Boris? - Page 6 Empty Ken or Boris?

Post by Ivan Sun Jan 22, 2012 1:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

May 3 is the date set for the London Mayoral election. The three main candidates are Boris Johnson (Tory), who has been Mayor of London since 2008, Ken Livingstone (Labour), who was Mayor from 2000 until 2008, and Brian Paddick (Lib Dem). As Paddick is currently polling around 7%, I think we can discount him.

From 1986 to 2000, London had been the only major city in the Western world without its own elected authority. That was because when Labour regained control of the Greater London Council (GLC) in 1981, Thatcher, an enemy of democracy, decided to abolish it. She also abolished six metropolitan councils which just happened to be Labour-controlled. It's hardly surprising that she was a personal friend of General Pinochet, a man not noted for his democratic credentials.

Ken Livingstone was born in Streatham in London in 1945 and went to Tulse Hill Comprehensive School. He worked as a cancer research laboratory technician at the Royal Marsden Hospital. In 1971, he became a councillor in Lambeth, and he was the leader of the GLC from 1981 until its abolition in 1986. He was the MP for Brent East from 1987 until 2001.

Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, a descendant of an illegitimate child of George II, was born in 1964 and went to Eton and Oxford, where, as a member of the Bullingdon Club (in the company of Cameron and Osborne) he spent a night in a police cell after trashing a restaurant. He became a journalist and was the Tory MP for Henley from 2001 to 2008. Once elected Mayor of London (on a salary of around £150,000 a year), he resumed work as a ‘Daily Telegraph’ columnist on a further £250,000 a year.

Johnson, who has campaigned vigorously against the 50% top rate of tax and has frequently defended bankers, is a serial adulterer, compulsive liar, racist, and even a thief, once being made to return an article which he looted from the home of Tariq Aziz in Baghdad. He has a reputation for running up exorbitant expenses, and in short, he’s thoroughly unsuitable for holding any office.

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Post by atv Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:15 pm

In the end, it all comes down to Ken or Boris - one a born and bred Tax cheating lying hypocritical Londoner, or a lazy, arrogant, foul-mouthed, out-of-touch Bullingdon Club toff.

Tough choice!!!!!!!!!!


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Post by trevorw2539 Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:21 pm

atv wrote:In the end, it all comes down to Ken or Boris - one a born and bred Tax cheating lying hypocritical Londoner, or a lazy, arrogant, foul-mouthed, out-of-touch Bullingdon Club toff.

Tough choice!!!!!!!!!!


Crikey, ATV. It's easy to see that you're an admirer of both. Can't you find anything bad to say about either:)
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Post by Ivan Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:52 pm

IMHO, Ken Livingstone is not only a tax cheat and a hypocrite, but a liar as well.
LOL. If that were true he'd be in the present government. Oh no, forgot, he didn't go to Eton.

So why is Ken a "tax cheat" for setting up a private company to pay workers, but presumably Hammond, Mitchell and Osborne aren't - IYHO - when they stash wealth overseas??
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Post by atv Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:25 pm

Ivan,
Why is whenever there is any critcism of Labour, Labourites immeadiately reply with the Torys are just as bad.
When Labour MPs were exposed as expence cheats, Labourites claimed The Torys were worst.
Now Livingstone has been accused of tax evasion, you mention the Torys again. he was quite happy to publish details of everything he earned, now he has refused. All the others have published their tax details.

Or I ask is why, what has he got to hide? A simple question.
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Post by oftenwrong Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:38 pm

I think I'd have to cut my throat if dogma obliged me to vote for a preening fop like Boris.

Fortunately I don't live in London, so the dilemma doesn't arise.
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Post by atv Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:58 pm

oftenwrong wrote:I think I'd have to cut my throat if dogma obliged me to vote for a preening fop like Boris.

Fortunately I don't live in London, so the dilemma doesn't arise.

Boris got rid of the Western congestion charge zone that Livingstone said he wouldn't extend, Livingstone went back on his word even increasing the charges, and hopefully Londoners will remember that.
Boris also got rid of those damn awful bendy buses.

.
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Post by Redflag Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:29 pm

bobby wrote:Brian Paddick is OK if you want a one trick pony, all he can and ever wants to talk about is the police (sory two trick pony, I was forgetting Gay rights).

Watching the 4 way debate chaired by Paxman last night, showed Doris for exactly what he is. He kept butting in, then Filibustered his way through the rest of the so called debate. He wouldn’t give anyone else a chance to speak, but felt he had some god given right to the platform.

One of the best things to happen to London was getting rid of chopper Cutler and the next high point will be the demise of Doris Johnson. There are probably better and more suitable people than Ken for the job, but until they put themselves forward, Ken will do nicely.

Hi bobby its the fun and games when Ken is made Mayor, thats is when the fun and games will start Doris will be after Davey boy's job of PM and leader of the Tories so can see the fight starting very soon because Doris loves loads of money he gets around £144,000 for Mayor £250,000 for his column in the Telegraph and he is writing his memoirs though I do not know who will want to buy that.
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Post by Ivan Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:08 am

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Post by bobby Sat Apr 07, 2012 11:02 am

atv wrote:

Ivan,
Why is whenever there is any critcism of Labour, Labourites immeadiately reply with the Torys are just as bad.
When Labour MPs were exposed as expence cheats, Labourites claimed The Torys were worst.

You really are a good little Tory aren't you atv. If I thought you where worth the effort

I could go back and show post after post, where you do exactly what you are accusing us of, and I can remember taking you to task each time you did so.

Whenever it was pointed out to you that unemployment has risen under your hero’s, your answer was, but unemployment went up under labour, or if it where pointed out that many thousands of businesses went to the wall under the Tories, your answer was, so did they under labour, and so on and on. So to accuse we of the left of such childish behaviour you need to get your own home in order. Then of course there are the lies you spout about inflation. Again I remember these lies going back to the MSN days, although you where proved to be wrong back then, you still try the same crap now, is it that you think the newer members will believe your lies, or is it as Ivan said, you are a believer of the Joseph Goebbels school of Politics. My belief is that if you use Nazi methods to debate, perhaps you are more that way inclined than you would dare to admit to, I mean if you lay with vermin, you will end up scratching.

When we say that all the Tories do is far worse than anything Labour has ever done, its because its the truth.

A while ago, I asked you mate blueturando. How can he support a government who’s policies are nothing akin to the promises they made prior to the General Election, I.e. There will be no Top down reorganisation of the NHS. We will not raise VAT, you know as well as I the list of lies is endless. My point atv is how can you support a party who are now nothing akin to the party you voted for in May 2010. Either you are nothing other than a Tory/Nazi and will follow them through all sorts of slime for your/their Ideology, or you are a total sucker, myself I believe it to be the latter.

By the way when we make a response about as you say the Tories are as bad, you are wrong, we tell the truth and say, they are far worse.
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Post by oftenwrong Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:44 pm

Now we've had sight of their Tax Returns, are we any the wiser?
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Post by atv Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:30 pm

"bobby" wrote:

[quote]Whenever it was pointed out to you that unemployment has risen under your hero’s, your answer was, but unemployment went up under labour, or if it where pointed out that many thousands of businesses went to the wall under the Tories, your answer was, so did they under labour, and so on and on. So to accuse we of the left of such childish behaviour you need to get your own home in order. [ quote]
First of all I am not accusing you of childish behaviour, the only time I have accused anyone of childish behaviour is the childish name changing.
Lefties on this forum are forever referring to Thatcher, and that was 20/30 years ago, you are forever quoting how many businesses went to the wall, unemployment and people losing their homes, but no mention of the thousands that were in the same boat when Labour were in power, why is that?

I admit the link I quoted did give the impression that inflation was 26/27% in 1979, when of course it should have been "peaked in 1975", as witchfinder kindly pointed out.

As for using "Nazi methods to debate", I suggest people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, or have you already forgotten the smear campaign Labour were about to start.

You ask why do I support the Torys, I will give a simple answer.
Many could be persuaded to vote labour because they believe in the power of the working man, but labour has sold them down the river in encouraging the benefit culture to the point , it is a toss up whether to bother carrying on work because they would receive as much on the dole.
One of the greatest myths perpetrated by the Left is that they are somehow more caring, or compassionate, or charitable. What utter nonsense. How many Labour supporters donate to charity, most all of the Tory supporters I know do. How many of them take part in community projects, almost all of the Tory supporters I know do. How many of them have ever worked in private business, or are net tax payers. How many Labour supporters carry around with them a disgruntled, overwhelming sense of entitlement, then ask yourself, "how many Torys think the world owes them a living".
Tory voters don't.


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Post by Phil Hornby Sat Apr 07, 2012 3:42 pm

It's good to know that humility is alive and well.... Very Happy
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Post by Redflag Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:52 pm

Phil Hornby wrote:It's good to know that humility is alive and well.... Very Happy

Whose humility PH I know its not Scam..er..ons he has not got any just like the pirates that sit on the front benches with him.
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Post by oftenwrong Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:38 pm

QUOTE: ".... ask yourself, "how many Torys think the world owes them a living". "

I don't know what they think, but I am certainly aware that's the way they behave. It wouldn't be quite so nauseating if at the same time they didn't perceive themselves superior to the common horde.
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Post by Redflag Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:52 pm

oftenwrong wrote:QUOTE: ".... ask yourself, "how many Torys think the world owes them a living". "

I don't know what they think, but I am certainly aware that's the way they behave. It wouldn't be quite so nauseating if at the same time they didn't perceive themselves superior to the common horde.

Thats the way they have been brought up to believe themselves better than everybody else, and yes it is nauseating but it also shows how ILL MANNERED they are and without any MORALS. Evil or Very Mad Twisted Evil
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Post by bobby Sat Apr 07, 2012 10:53 pm

atv wrote: Lefties on this forum are forever referring to Thatcher, and that was 20/30 years ago, Thank you very much, you have just proven my point very nicely.
You have just done what in your posting to Ivan said is a Labour trait. You have just stated “you are forever quoting how many businesses went to the wall, unemployment and people losing their homes, but no mention of the thousands that were in the same boat when Labour were in power, why is that?. A simple question to answer, Labours unemployment and homeless record was always way below the Tories, and it was The Bitch (there you are, some childish name changing, just for you)Thatcher and her follower John (the Currey phucker) Major who created unemployment of 3.8 million, obviously that figure means bugger all to you or why do you keep saying the same thing when its mentioned “what about the unemployment Labour caused. Well lets not only be fair here but honest as well. Labour never created no 3.8 million unemployed, and when they inherited somewhere near that figure, they very quickly reduced it massively.And as I recall, we had cardboard cities springing up under your Tory Government, and again it was Labour who dealt with the problem.

Now be a good little Tory and practice what you preach.
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Post by Redflag Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:26 pm

bobby wrote:atv wrote: Lefties on this forum are forever referring to Thatcher, and that was 20/30 years ago, Thank you very much, you have just proven my point very nicely.
You have just done what in your posting to Ivan said is a Labour trait. You have just stated “you are forever quoting how many businesses went to the wall, unemployment and people losing their homes, but no mention of the thousands that were in the same boat when Labour were in power, why is that?. A simple question to answer, Labours unemployment and homeless record was always way below the Tories, and it was The Bitch (there you are, some childish name changing, just for you)Thatcher and her follower John (the Currey phucker) Major who created unemployment of 3.8 million, obviously that figure means bugger all to you or why do you keep saying the same thing when its mentioned “what about the unemployment Labour caused. Well lets not only be fair here but honest as well. Labour never created no 3.8 million unemployed, and when they inherited somewhere near that figure, they very quickly reduced it massively.And as I recall, we had cardboard cities springing up under your Tory Government, and again it was Labour who dealt with the problem.

Now be a good little Tory and practice what you preach.

The same Tories that said "unemployment was a price worth paying" but it was not them that was paying the price and that is what they think of the normal working man/women and look at it now there is no difference its the ow paid and and the unemployed that are still paying the price for the Incompetence of this Tory Gov't.
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Post by Ivan Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:12 pm

"Homelessness charities demand missing £5 million from Boris Johnson"

Charities fear London Mayor has diverted £5.3 million of government funds pledged to rough sleepers to other unspecified purposes. It's no wonder Johnson's so keen to divert attention from his appalling record by talking about Ken's taxes.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/09/homelessness-charities-missing-money-boris-johnson?CMP=twt_gu
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Post by Redflag Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:27 pm

Ivan wrote:"Homelessness charities demand missing £5 million from Boris Johnson"

Charities fear London Mayor has diverted £5.3 million of government funds pledged to rough sleepers to other unspecified purposes. It's no wonder Johnson's so keen to divert attention from his appalling record by talking about Ken's taxes.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/apr/09/homelessness-charities-missing-money-boris-johnson?CMP=twt_gu

It does not supprise me Ivan he is just as crooked as those vermin that live in No10 No11 Downing St.
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Post by oftenwrong Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:17 pm

Here's a revolutionary idea. What purpose does it serve to have a Lord Mayor AND a Mayor of London? It confuses the tourists, so lets go back to having a figurehead. (That's ONE person, not two).
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Post by Redflag Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:03 pm

oftenwrong wrote:Here's a revolutionary idea. What purpose does it serve to have a Lord Mayor AND a Mayor of London? It confuses the tourists, so lets go back to having a figurehead. (That's ONE person, not two).

Let that one be Ken Livingstone. cheers cheers cheers
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Post by Blamhappy Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:42 pm

Boris has played a blinder with the banning of the gay cure bus ad. If Ken is to have a chance, he needs a good "inclusive", anti-prejudice headline like that.
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Post by Adele Carlyon Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:02 pm

I think Boris knew about that ad quite a long time ago and did nowt about it until now...just so he could score political points...he's still a bloody shyster!
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Post by oftenwrong Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:27 pm

People will vote for Boris "because he makes them laugh".
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Post by Adele Carlyon Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:29 pm

If people really do think he's worth voting for because he makes them laugh, well i'm afraid we're doomed...it's really quite worrying! Sad
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Post by tlttf Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:46 am

Strangely, people can separate Boris from the tory party and vote on what he's done since mayor, remember he's running for the mayor of London not the world. However everybody is now convinced that Livingstone is a shyster, the same as his party. If he's the best they've got (one that relies on planting fear into people) then Both Boris and the Tories bode well for the future (whether you want them to or not).

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Post by tlttf Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:32 am

Want to cry at the injustice of it all?
Speak to "ordinary Londoners" about their plight?
Roll up, roll up, rent a crowd of "ordinary Londoners" give them a script and watch those tears stream down.
Yes it could only be "our Ken", who when nor dodging embarrassing tax questions, not praising the Palestinians and slating the Jewish population, not grovelling to the immigrant and other minorities, not putting forward his deputy (who just happens to be a mate of Laurence) and finally making promises that would cost all Londoners more money.
Yes keep it up Ken, surely somebody believes in you other than Milliband.

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Post by Ivan Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:11 pm

tlttf wrote:-
Roll up, roll up, rent a crowd of "ordinary Londoners" give them a script and watch those tears stream down.
Trust you to reproduce that filthy lie put out by Johnson's supporters. Easily brainwashed by 'The Evening Standard', aren't you? Johnson gave the last editor of that crap rag a job for which she wasn't qualified, and now another of his cronies has got the position.
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Post by Ivan Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:16 pm

“The case against Boris Johnson”

Adapted from an article by Tom Barry:-

Boris Johnson’s public image is a crime-fighting, straight-talking, fun-loving man of the people – yet the qualities usually on display are peevishness, poor judgement, a tendency to get distracted by bling and straightforward dishonesty.

The peevishness is instantly obvious to anyone who sees the London Assembly’s monthly attempts to hold Boris to account. He suggests that all this tiresome democratic accountability is getting in the way of something he’d really rather be doing.

You can tell a man by his choice of friends, and Boris does love his sycophants. His poor judgement of character can be seen in the ever-revolving door of City Hall. His appointees have variously been sacked in an internal coup (Tim Parker), had their collar felt (Ian Clement), or lied on their CV (Ray Lewis). Others simply turned out to not be as competent as one might hope; there have been many of those.

Boris’ love of bling has resulted in an endless line of distracting boondoggles: an airport in the sea, a pointless new bus, an expensive way to cross the river, a 300-foot rectal prolapse disfiguring the Olympic Stadium, and any number of stillborn schemes such as the floating river walk, the Living Bridge, or the Nine Elms tube line.

Examples of Boris seemingly lying are far too many to be anything other than a basic character flaw. So, we get hordes of imaginary dead cyclists, victims of murderous bendy buses. The bike hire scheme, used by a minority of well-off Londoners, was meant to cost nothing, yet turned out to be swallowing grants prised from developers for local transport improvements. Meanwhile the modes of transport most Londoners actually use are seeing cuts in investment, overcrowding and above-inflationary fare rises.


For the original article:-
http://londonist.com/2012/02/mayoral-election-the-case-against-boris-johnson.php

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Post by Ivan Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:49 pm

Ken Livingstone’s election team has hit back at accusations that actors were paid for his election broadcast by producing a new video. It features three of the Londoners who appeared in Labour’s earlier broadcast explaining why they took part and why they are backing Ken’s campaign. None of them was paid for this broadcast either.

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Post by Redflag Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:27 pm

Ivan wrote:Ken Livingstone’s election team has hit back at accusations that actors were paid for his election broadcast by producing a new video. It features three of the Londoners who appeared in Labour’s earlier broadcast explaining why they took part and why they are backing Ken’s campaign. None of them was paid for this broadcast either.


He will use every dirty trick in the book to get re-elected to the job of Mayor, its up to the people of London to vote for Ken so that they get a decent deal for there families its something I have been waiting for Doris to make a move on Davey boys job or PM now that will fun and games to watch.
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Post by Scarecrow Sat Apr 14, 2012 5:41 pm

This has the fingerprints of Boris Johnson’s campaign director Lynton Crosby all over it . The fight will get dirtier as the days roll on.
Put the likes of Mandelson and Crosby , Coulson and Alastair Campbell in Big Bother , now that would be fascinating watching how the professional's scheme and spin against each other , change the rules so that only one lives , then you would see duplicity and spin of the highest order YUK .
http://www.totalpolitics.com/print/23/howboris-won-the-lynton-crosby-interview.thtml

Ken or Boris? - Page 6 Article-1317785-023B4E890000044D-963_634x459
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Post by Redflag Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:40 pm

Ivan wrote:Ken Livingstone’s election team has hit back at accusations that actors were paid for his election broadcast by producing a new video. It features three of the Londoners who appeared in Labour’s earlier broadcast explaining why they took part and why they are backing Ken’s campaign. None of them was paid for this broadcast either.


Hi Ivan enjoyed your post but have a question what is said in the feature do the people of London know the truth about this been Doris smear campaign against Ken ?
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Post by Ivan Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:45 pm

Boris Johnson - typical pathological lying Tory, who will say anything to get elected:-