How long do you think the coalition will last?

First topic message reminder :

I want people's opinion of how long they think this coalition will last. ?

Quote Ivanhoe.

The thing is that this issue has nothing to do with pride. When you

have worked hard all your life and paid taxes and NI contrbutions, then you have an entlement to a decent pension care of the State, and not a State pension so low that it demands and ensures you must be means tested for handouts.


Yes, absolutely. But realistically it is not going to happen until the OAP's have their say. That will happen in the future when they will be a major minority, so to speak.

There has to be pressure on the parties before an election, and the pressure has to remain - no broken promises. And, as you know, that is not in the make-up of many politicians.

As I posted recently. The 3d arts Politicians must learn. Democracy, diplomacy and duplicity.



Oftenwrong. Some, of a certain religious group, would say Guy Fawkes was a patriot. MMMMmmmmmmmmmmm. Anyone got a plan of Westminster?

I'm almost 73. Soon be old-aged.

trevorw2539 wrote:Quote Ivanhoe.

The thing is that this issue has nothing to do with pride. When you

have worked hard all your life and paid taxes and NI contrbutions, then you have an entlement to a decent pension care of the State, and not a State pension so low that it demands and ensures you must be means tested for handouts.


Yes, absolutely. But realistically it is not going to happen until the OAP's have their say. That will happen in the future when they will be a major minority, so to speak.

There has to be pressure on the parties before an election, and the pressure has to remain - no broken promises. And, as you know, that is not in the make-up of many politicians.








As I posted recently. The 3d arts Politicians must learn. Democracy, diplomacy and duplicity.



Oftenwrong. Some, of a certain religious group, would say Guy Fawkes was a patriot. MMMMmmmmmmmmmmm. Anyone got a plan of Westminster?

I'm almost 73. Soon be old-aged.

Trevor its a pity we do not have Guy Fawkes is long gone but if you need any help let me know, I do not mind helping to to get rid of the VERMIN in Westminster?

trevorw2539 wrote:Quote Ivanhoe.

The thing is that this issue has nothing to do with pride. When you

have worked hard all your life and paid taxes and NI contrbutions, then you have an entlement to a decent pension care of the State, and not a State pension so low that it demands and ensures you must be means tested for handouts.


Yes, absolutely. But realistically it is not going to happen until the OAP's have their say. That will happen in the future when they will be a major minority, so to speak.

There has to be pressure on the parties before an election, and the pressure has to remain - no broken promises. And, as you know, that is not in the make-up of many politicians.

As I posted recently. The 3d arts Politicians must learn. Democracy, diplomacy and duplicity.



Oftenwrong. Some, of a certain religious group, would say Guy Fawkes was a patriot. MMMMmmmmmmmmmmm. Anyone got a plan of Westminster?

I'm almost 73. Soon be old-aged.

I'm a member of The National Pensioners Convention, and so I can tell you now that OAP's are'nt being allowed to have their say. For example, BBC 1's Question Time, having been approached by the NPC, wont allow a spokesman from the NPC on the programme. The reason the BBC say is thus,

They dont think a pensioners spokesman could handle it.

Redflag.

Trevor its a pity we do not have Guy Fawkes is long gone but if you need any help let me know, I do not mind helping to to get rid of the VERMIN in Westminster?




Redflag



Posts: 443
Join date: 2011-12-31





Noted. When I get my zimmer repaired from the last attempt I'll let you know:D





Ivanhoe.

I'm a member of The National Pensioners Convention, and so I can tell you now that OAP's are'nt being allowed to have their say. For example, BBC 1's Question Time, having been approached by the NPC, wont allow a spokesman from the NPC on the programme. The reason the BBC say is thus,

They dont think a pensioners spokesman could handle it.




Ivanhoe



Posts: 377
Join date: 2011-12-11




They've got a nerve. After all the waffle we hear on there. I seem to remember the OAP MP's that have been on there.
Perhaps they're afraid a pensioner lose control and threaten someone with his/her walking stick. Or worse. Dentures falling out.

There are far more erudite pensioners out there than there are politicians.

I, myself, can shout and scream with the best of them. I learnt by watching sessions of Parliament and PMQ's.

trevorw2539 wrote:Redflag.

Trevor its a pity we do not have Guy Fawkes is long gone but if you need any help let me know, I do not mind helping to to get rid of the VERMIN in Westminster?




Redflag



Posts: 443
Join date: 2011-12-31





Noted. When I get my zimmer repaired from the last attempt I'll let you know:D





Ivanhoe.

I'm a member of The National Pensioners Convention, and so I can tell you now that OAP's are'nt being allowed to have their say. For example, BBC 1's Question Time, having been approached by the NPC, wont allow a spokesman from the NPC on the programme. The reason the BBC say is thus,

They dont think a pensioners spokesman could handle it.




Ivanhoe



Posts: 377
Join date: 2011-12-11




They've got a nerve. After all the waffle we hear on there. I seem to remember the OAP MP's that have been on there.
Perhaps they're afraid a pensioner lose control and threaten someone with his/her walking stick. Or worse. Dentures falling out.

There are far more erudite pensioners out there than there are politicians.

I, myself, can shout and scream with the best of them. I learnt by watching sessions of Parliament and PMQ's.

Yes they have got a nerve, and they are getting away with it.

Hell hath no fury like a Pensioner with ENTITLEMENTS.

Oftenwrong Quote

Hell hath no fury like a Pensioner with ENTITLEMENTS.

Except a wife whose birthday has been forgotten

Ivanhoe wrote:

trevorw2539 wrote:Redflag.

Trevor its a pity we do not have Guy Fawkes is long gone but if you need any help let me know, I do not mind helping to to get rid of the VERMIN in Westminster?




Redflag



Posts: 443
Join date: 2011-12-31





Noted. When I get my zimmer repaired from the last attempt I'll let you know:D





Ivanhoe.

I'm a member of The National Pensioners Convention, and so I can tell you now that OAP's are'nt being allowed to have their say. For example, BBC 1's Question Time, having been approached by the NPC, wont allow a spokesman from the NPC on the programme. The reason the BBC say is thus,

They dont think a pensioners spokesman could handle it.




Ivanhoe



Posts: 377
Join date: 2011-12-11




They've got a nerve. After all the waffle we hear on there. I seem to remember the OAP MP's that have been on there.
Perhaps they're afraid a pensioner lose control and threaten someone with his/her walking stick. Or worse. Dentures falling out.

There are far more erudite pensioners out there than there are politicians.

I, myself, can shout and scream with the best of them. I learnt by watching sessions of Parliament and PMQ's.

Yes they have got a nerve, and they are getting away with it.

It was not until I was a pensioner that I learned how to shout and scream, your right about getting about learning how to scream louder by watching PMQs every week.

Except a wife whose birthday has been forgotten

Done that, sadly.


Crivvens what a COLD place to be!!

astra wrote:

Except a wife whose birthday has been forgotten

Done that, sadly.


Crivvens what a COLD place to be!!

Really? I've been told it's hell!!

That we could be facing a general election before the end of this Parliament ?.

"....we could be facing a general election before the end of this Parliament ..... "

Resulting in a Coalition Government of UKIP, Monster Raving Loony Party, Respect, Independant Pie Eaters, Greens, Global-warming Denial Party, Tax-Payers anonymous, 51st. State of the USA Founding Fathers, Oligarchs 'r' us, and Home Rule for Berwick (independent of Alex's Independence Party) Party.


All in favour, say "Aye".

oftenwrong wrote:"....we could be facing a general election before the end of this Parliament ..... "

Resulting in a Coalition Government of UKIP, Monster Raving Loony Party, Respect, Independant Pie Eaters, Greens, Global-warming Denial Party, Tax-Payers anonymous, 51st. State of the USA Founding Fathers, Oligarchs 'r' us, and Home Rule for Berwick (independent of Alex's Independence) Party.


All in favour, say "Aye".

Baring in mind the true nature of Democracy and all that, , and in this country of free speech, is there any chance that for once you oftenwrong, you could write something truly sensible?????????????

If the efforts of some folk seeking to 'write something truly sensible' is anything to go by, I may rather favour the alternative...

I wish I understood politics better.

On one hand, the first thing this new administration did was ensure that they would be in power for five years, which makes me think that we're stuck with them.

On the other hand, I can't believe that if a government messed up very badly, it can stay in power no matter what. There must be ways of getting rid. Is this where a "vote of no confidence" fits in? Can that be held for a whole administration, or is it just for the PM?

If we did have another election, I don't think we'd have a no-majority situation again. I think the reasons that happened last time don't exist anymore.

There must be ways of getting rid.

Is this where Queer Deany gets Excalibur out of the Palace Kitchen (Yes Folks THAT'S where it was hidden!!) and chops their heads orft??

by Blamhappy Today at 3:27 pm



I wish I understood politics better.

My sentiments exactly. But keep reading on here. It's very instructive and very combatative at times. But all-in-all, enlightening.
There are some intelligent people on here, balanced by idiots like me:(

Blamhappy wrote:I wish I understood politics better.

On one hand, the first thing this new administration did was ensure that they would be in power for five years, which makes me think that we're stuck with them.

On the other hand, I can't believe that if a government messed up very badly, it can stay in power no matter what. There must be ways of getting rid. Is this where a "vote of no confidence" fits in? Can that be held for a whole administration, or is it just for the PM?

If we did have another election, I don't think we'd have a no-majority situation again. I think the reasons that happened last time don't exist anymore.

"""I wish I understood politics better"""".

Blanhappy, When I was a teenager in the mid 60's, I never voted. Then Thatcher as Minister for educated under the Ted Heath small "c" Conservative
Government in the mid 70's took free school milk from the school children.

When I found out about this, I knew that if Thatcher ever became PM of this country, Britain would be finished, and I have been proven right.

Dont get me wrong, im not interested in politics for it's own sake, but I have over the last 30 years educated myself into party politics.

And Thatcher's ideoligical Agenda since the 80's and under the legal framework of the free market, has ruined as a matter of policy, people's lives on mass. And we are still all living under her dreadful legacy.

I don't think you get much more ignorant than me. My main reason for being here is to learn!

Blamhappy wrote:I don't think you get much more ignorant than me. My main reason for being here is to learn!

May I, as just one site member, know your age ?

Of course! I'm 32.

Ivanhoe wrote:That we could be facing a general election before the end of this Parliament ?.

After the antics of the Tory party of the last couple of weeks there is more than a chance of either GE or a General Strike, Scam..er..ons let his halo slip so the public now know that the only people he is interested in are the top 15% of the voting public.

Blamhappy wrote:Of course! I'm 32.

So you were a wee toddler in the early days of Margaret Thatchers term of office ?

Yes, correct. I didn't know her, but I do remember my parents struggling money-wise through my childhood, and they both worked!

Blamhappy wrote:Yes, correct. I didn't know her, but I do remember my parents struggling money-wise through my childhood, and they both worked!

Well done Blamhappy for having enough guts to come on here and learn, if you saw your mum and dad struggling with money Thatcher was an old Witch Scam..er..on is worse for he is daring to do what she did not, Some of what Thatcher done follows Gas Electric Phone and the Railways belonged to the public UNTIL Thatcher sold them to friends and family of the Tory party and a few where caught trying to buy more shares than they where allowed and as we the public never seen a penny of the money it would have went too Donors to Tory party funds there are others on here that is worth reading what they have to say Ivan, Ivanhoe Mel astra and bobby we will educate you so do not worry.

Blamhappy wrote:Yes, correct. I didn't know her, but I do remember my parents struggling money-wise through my childhood, and they both worked!

Blamhappy,

These are just some of Thatcher's policies that were a national disgrace.

She reduced old people State pension buy breaking the State pensions link with male average earnings.

She stopped building council houses during her right to buy.

She gave tax cuts to the rich, and abolished minimum wages in this country, thereby forcing public sector workers to work for low wages.

She cut investment into our NHS, indeed all our vital services.

She privatised our Utilities, Gas, Electricity, Water.

What do you think of that lot Blamhappy ?

I had a rough idea of it all anyway. It's not much different from our current government really, is it?

Her policies reflect pretty much the opposite of the principles I believe in.

They're designed to build a society in which the rich thrive and the poor suffer increasingly.

People often talk about how she did a disservice to single parents. I've never known what that referred to. Can you elaborate on that?

Ivanhoe wrote:

Blamhappy wrote:I wish I understood politics better.

On one hand, the first thing this new administration did was ensure that they would be in power for five years, which makes me think that we're stuck with them.

On the other hand, I can't believe that if a government messed up very badly, it can stay in power no matter what. There must be ways of getting rid. Is this where a "vote of no confidence" fits in? Can that be held for a whole administration, or is it just for the PM?

If we did have another election, I don't think we'd have a no-majority situation again. I think the reasons that happened last time don't exist anymore.

"""I wish I understood politics better"""".

Blanhappy, When I was a teenager in the mid 60's, I never voted. Then Thatcher as Minister for educated under the Ted Heath small "c" Conservative
Government in the mid 70's took free school milk from the school children.

When I found out about this, I knew that if Thatcher ever became PM of this country, Britain would be finished, and I have been proven right.

Dont get me wrong, im not interested in politics for it's own sake, but I have over the last 30 years educated myself into party politics.

And Thatcher's ideoligical Agenda since the 80's and under the legal framework of the free market, has ruined as a matter of policy, people's lives on mass. And we are still all living under her dreadful legacy.

"Britain finished"
What are we going to do now folks?

Blamhappy wrote:They're designed to build a society in which the rich thrive and the poor suffer increasingly.

People often talk about how she did a disservice to single parents. I've never known what that referred to. Can you elaborate on that?

And Scam..er..on has been reading through her papers from that time she was scared to sell the NHS but Scam..er..on thinks we are still as stupid as we where then and he is in for a very large SHOCK soon.

Blamhappy, in 1980, I met a Jarrow Lass and moved here - Sunderland, from Scotland.
At that time, Perth was bustling - General Accident insurance, World headquarters, Dewars Whisky 7 line bottling plant, and headquarters. Bells whisky headquarters and Perth Harbour was all-a-bustle.
Here, the North was all shipyards, coalmines, coking works - smelly smokey things, but the NCB was on top of the problem. Steel works and rolling mills, and here in Washington we had 47 coal mines alone! Work was there if you #1 asked and #2 could be bothered to get up at 3 or 4 am for the early shifts - male and females. The Nissan plant was NOT a replacement for all that work that was lost. For a start, no one here was used to production lines, therefore most of the car workers came from the factories that were closing elsewhere in the country. Even now, very little is actually MADE here for/by nissan, it is all lorried and shipped into the Tyne to be ASSEMBLED. Hitachi are building a train ASSEMBLY factory in Northallerton, but again nothing actually MANUFACTURED here!
Yes Thatcher's Britain was smokey yes there were numbnuts in politics and in the unions but to kill all that off and GIVE the technology to those who are now competitors was IMO wrong.
Stupidity in UK Government - Cameron has scrapped ALL the Harrier Jets and is producing no more, yet, Italy is now buying from America the McDonnel Douglas AV-8B Harrier (US type) Only in UK could you expect this to carry on!

We grump and moan a lot on here but we are not so bad I feel apathy rules in UK now.

Blamhappy wrote:I had a rough idea of it all anyway. It's not much different from our current government really, is it?

Her policies reflect pretty much the opposite of the principles I believe in.

""Her policies reflect pretty much the opposite of the principles I believe in.[/quote]""

What are your principles Blamhappy ?

Blamhappy wrote:They're designed to build a society in which the rich thrive and the poor suffer increasingly.

People often talk about how she did a disservice to single parents. I've never known what that referred to. Can you elaborate on that?

Thatcher did a disservice to everybody on State benefits, including the unemployed and the elderly. She cut their benefits, and she demonised them.

This coalition are continuing where Thatcher left off.

Ivanhoe wrote:
What are your principles Blamhappy ?

I believe in everyone paying a fair amount of tax, and that tax being used to supply health care that is free at the point of need, education, council services, emergency services, leadership, and travel.

I believe in protecting the weakest in society.

I believe in democracy to a certain extent (there ARE limits, such as the majority of citizens would like the return of the death penalty, and I think that needs to be blocked in an authoritarian-type way).

I believe in a justice system that attempts to rehabilitate as well as punish.

I believe in enterprise, but within limits.

I believe that no one should experience poverty.

Blamhappy wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:
What are your principles Blamhappy ?

I believe in everyone paying a fair amount of tax, and that tax being used to supply health care that is free at the point of need, education, council services, emergency services, leadership, and travel.

I believe in protecting the weakest in society.

I believe in democracy to a certain extent (there ARE limits, such as the majority of citizens would like the return of the death penalty, and I think that needs to be blocked in an authoritarian-type way).

I believe in a justice system that attempts to rehabilitate as well as punish.

I believe in enterprise, but within limits.

I believe that no one should experience poverty.

Blamhappy. So you believe in the role of the State playing it's role via income tax to fund our vital services we all use. ?

But do you believe in a decent State pension for the elderly, without means testing ?

Do you believe in social housing for people who can't afford to buy ?

Do you want to see an end to the unjust council tax ?

Ivanhoe wrote:
Blamhappy. So you believe in the role of the State playing it's role via income tax to fund our vital services we all use. ?

But do you believe in a decent State pension for the elderly, without means testing ?

Do you believe in social housing for people who can't afford to buy ?

Do you want to see an end to the unjust council tax ?

I do believe in taxing and use of tax to provide vital services.

I do believe in social housing, although I think affordable housing is also a priority (I relied on its existence).

What's unfair about Council Tax?

Blamhappy wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:
Blamhappy. So you believe in the role of the State playing it's role via income tax to fund our vital services we all use. ?

But do you believe in a decent State pension for the elderly, without means testing ?

Do you believe in social housing for people who can't afford to buy ?

Do you want to see an end to the unjust council tax ?

I do believe in taxing and use of tax to provide vital services.

I do believe in social housing, although I think affordable housing is also a priority (I relied on its existence).

What's unfair about Council Tax?

""What's unfair about Council Tax?""

Council Tax is not based on ability to pay.

Blamhappy wrote:

Ivanhoe wrote:
Blamhappy. So you believe in the role of the State playing it's role via income tax to fund our vital services we all use. ?

But do you believe in a decent State pension for the elderly, without means testing ?

Do you believe in social housing for people who can't afford to buy ?

Do you want to see an end to the unjust council tax ?

I do believe in taxing and use of tax to provide vital services.

I do believe in social housing, although I think affordable housing is also a priority (I relied on its existence).

What's unfair about Council Tax?

Re: How long do you think the coalition will last?
by Blamhappy Today at 10:37 pm

.Ivanhoe wrote:

Blamhappy. So you believe in the role of the State playing it's role via income tax to fund our vital services we all use. ?

But do you believe in a decent State pension for the elderly, without means testing ?

Do you believe in social housing for people who can't afford to buy ?

Do you want to see an end to the unjust council tax ?

"""I do believe in taxing and use of tax to provide vital services.

Blamhappy""" Do you believe in cental Government funding all our vital services at both local and national level via income tax. ?

Blamhappy wrote:I had a rough idea of it all anyway. It's not much different from our current government really, is it?

Her policies reflect pretty much the opposite of the principles I believe in.

Blamhappy
Well if you know this then you already know a great deal... I pleased to read that this government does not share your principles, as they do not share mind either. but then they only really believe in 10% of the people anyway. yet they have always got middle class and working people voting for them..as what many do not fully understand is people never take the time to see though them. most of the Tory party membership have little or no idea what the Tory party hero's stand for. I know this as my ex-wives mother was the chair of a local Tory party.

She had no idea what there true parties philosophy is. let alone what Adam Smith stood for. yet this is the bedrock of what the Tory party believes in? this is quite common inside the Tory party. you would be just amazed if you was to asked them what free market economics means. my mother in law had no real idea. but thought Mrs Thatcher understood it. I guess the bottom line is most Tories join there party for the local Tory dinner and dance or other social events.

What you would find is more people who are like yourself would have more luck of having questions answered by people on the centre left than anyone on the Right wing..if I can help you understand something more just post your question to me...I will try and be fair to both sides if I can.

STOX

Stox 16 wrote:
yet they have always got middle class and working people voting for them..as what many do not fully understand is people never take the time to see though them. most of the Tory party membership have little or no idea what the Tory party hero's stand for.

From my point of view, yes and no.

I can't really talk about Conservative Party membership because I haven't come across many people who are actually members. I can talk about the average-Joe though. In my current and last job, I encounter/ed the general public and most were Tory-voters and left wing bashers. In fact, in Wetherspoon, I got nervous whenever someone asked me what my political persuasion was because I knew I was in for a mickey-take or even a full-blown rant.

I think people tend to vote for a general ideology, rather than for policies (does anyone actually read manifestos?), and I would say that the ideology of people in general does match up with a right wing agenda:

• Most people want harsh punishment for criminals.

• Most people think that people, including rich people, should be able to spend their money however they choose.

• Most people moan about how much tax we pay, and (even though it doesn't apply to them) think that 40-50% of one's wages is ridiculous.

• Most people are anti immigration and believe that foreigners take the jobs and benefits to which "we" are more entitled.

In my opinion, it's the implications of those ideological ideas that people don't understand. If they did, I think most would end up nudging to the left of centre:

• They don't realise that prison doesn't work. All they care about is punishing people. If criminals come out and re-commit, then they should just go back in. If it becomes a cycle, then so be it. They want the death penalty because they believe in the eye for an eye concept. They are unable to look at it objectively and philosophically - they see it black and white. They also fail to see just how far we've come past those days of brutal punishment. Our civilised way of living is seen as a "soft touch" approach and not understood in the bigger picture.

• They don't understand the concept of "society" - that you put in and get out within a standardised system in which we all receive an equal level of protection, care, and education - and that if we didn't have that system, it would probably cost us MORE to get all the vital services that we take for granted because companies would be greedy, and there would be no guarantee of an appropriate level of service.

• They don't think about who pays this high rate of income tax - it doesn't seem to sink in that the kind of salaries that result in high tax are so high in the first place that no one actually needs to be earning that amount of money, and that varying tax levels are a semi-leveller and not an act of greed by the Government. They don't digest that, if we had a rate of 25% for everyone, the divide between rich and poor would reach crazy levels and result in an inhumane society (well, it already is! But it'd be more extreme).

• They don't realise that immigration works both ways - that plenty of UK-born emigrate elsewhere, and that foreigners coming into the country boost our economy, and often take the jobs that Brits don't want (e.g. care home staff and cleaners). They don't understand asylum seekers - that they're not all money-grabbing free-loaders, and that they actually escaped for a reason. And that "asylum seeker" isn't the same as "illegal immigrant".

I hate to say it, but I think most people develop their right wing ideology by reading the press. The press very much enjoy muddying the waters. For the last point in particular, the press have ensured that no one understands immigration, and that anyone coming to this country - unless white, of course - is doing so for the wrong reasons and causing problems for us.

On the other hand, I think there is a strong argument for people not knowing what they're voting for, and that is the case on different levels. Firstly, there are people like me who trusted Clegg and voted for him, not realising that he's just as scheming as any other naughty politician and basically tricked me. Secondly, take my friend Emma as an example. She will tell you that she is staunchly Labour. We've often chatted about how we hate the Conservatives. Yet, when you listen to her ideas, she's actually right wing! I have said to her before that she sounds more like a Tory, but I don't want to keep pushing that because I think (as I discussed above at length) that, if she actually thought through the philosophy and implications of her basic belief system, she'd realise how awful life would be!

She's said to me before that she doesn't mind the concept of private healthcare and private education, and that she believes that if people earn enough money and they want to pay for these things, then why shouldn't they? She's a strong believer in a tough justice system that sends all criminals to jail for longer periods than they are now, and she'd like to see a return of the death penalty. She complains about tax, and thinks the higher tax rate is silly - people earn the money so why shouldn't they keep it? One thing she doesn't moan about is immigration - in her work (she works in a warehouse), there are a lot of ethnic minorities and she has not a shred of racism in her.