"Tory scum, here we come"

First topic message reminder :

I was at the DEMO in Manchester 29th September, my thread title was the chant from around 80,000 people, 40,000 inside the park and 40,000 OUTSIDE. We were kettled so we could not get into the park. IMHO the police were on instructions from the Tory gov't so people would not see 'THE TIDE TURNNG' against this VILE NASTY gov't.   People came from Aberdeen to Somerset and everywhere else in between and we were WELCOMED by the people who live in Manchester and some even joined in the march. There were BANNERS flying high from every Union within the UK; one which really caught my eye was from the N.U.S. from HALLAM SHEFFIELD, Cleggy's seat. (Just in case some on here may not know what NUS stands for it's 'National Union of Students'.)  It's been three & a half years and they have not forgot what the Prostitute party did to them with their signed photo pledge.
 
I myself want to thank the Unite Union here in Glasgow, Jack, Angela, Jackie, Sandra and everyone else on the coach from John Smith House to Manchester, this was my first DEMO and there are plenty more to come. I hear there is one in October and I will be there by hook or by crook because it gave me hope that at last the people in the UK 'HAVE AWAKENED FROM THEIR SLEEP'. There are some posters on here who have thought "would they wake in time?" My answer is a very loud "YES they have". They may have stopped us from getting into the park but we did not miss the Tories outside their conference. They heard us and we made sure with loud hailers, Brass Bands. whistles, rattles and of course our VOICES. They heard us FINE and no doubt Cameron will be worried today, but that is no one else's fault but ours. We were quiet for too long, so I am wondering if there will be more TOILET PAPER used today at their conference??:yeahthat:

Dan Fante wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:The numbers elected for a given point of view are rapidly trumped by the Parliamentary whip.

The voting system is incredible archaic. Why not press a button and/or have a secret ballot on bills being passed? At least it would allow MPs to vote with their conscience.

If my plan for Global Domination comes to fruition, I will cut-out the middle-man altogether and arrange for all Law to be passed by universal plebiscite, by means of the internet. In the meantime, that curious Westminster tradition of dragooning MPs through the lobbies at least has the virtue of providing an indelible record of who voted for what.

oftenwrong wrote:-
If my plan for Global Domination comes to fruition

 
You’re too late. Rupert Murdoch got there before you.  
 

I will…..arrange for all Law to be passed by universal plebiscite, by means of the internet

 
Good luck with that one, you might encounter voter apathy. The turnout for our internet poll currently stands at 4% of the electorate:-
 
https://cuttingedge2.forumotion.co.uk/t910-would-you-like-to-see-a-chat-facility

1/ Although growth under NL was good, it was insufficient to fund what was drastically needed to address ALL the failings of the previous administration and in particular what happened and didn't happen under the long period of destruction, carried out by Thatcher. (This you utterly refuse to accept when is is fact}

Hi Mel,

I would be interested to know where all this extra borrowing went to as it seems that NL Labour really didn't change anything that the Tories and Thatcher did...and I am sure it would be the same with Miliband....carrry on regardless

blueturando wrote:-
I would be interested to know where all this extra borrowing went to as it seems that NL Labour really didn't change anything that the Tories and Thatcher did

 
-  85,000 more nurses and 32,000 more doctors
-  Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70
-  36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants
-  Nursery school entitlement for all three and four year olds
-  Free fruit for most four to six year-olds at school
-  Child benefit increased by 26% in real terms  
-  Child trust funds set up
-  Over 1 million social homes brought up to standard
-  Working families tax credits
-  Pension credits
-  Winter fuel payments to OAPs  
-  Free prescriptions and eye tests for everyone over the age of 60
-  Free TV licences for over 75s
-  Free bus passes for pensioners
-  VAT on gas and electricity reduced from 8% to 5%
-  Standard rate of income tax cut from 23p in 1997 to 20p (lowest since the 1930s)
-  14,000 more police
-  Free admission to museums and galleries

"I would be interested to know where all this extra borrowing went to"

I see you have now returned from your holiday tltt, er-- sorry I mean blue.

Now you know, as Ivan has got here  first. There is more if you wish, however, that should be enough for you to digest and get on with for the moment.

Mel wrote:"I would be interested to know where all this extra borrowing went to"

I see you have now returned from your holiday tltt, er-- sorry I mean blue.

Now you know, as Ivan has got here  first. There is more if you wish, however, that should be enough for you to digest and get on with for the moment.

 
 
Mel you should know the only thing that blue knows about is the PURE TRIPE that the Tory party spout out of their LYING GOBS of that old chestnut "Labour's Mess". Now that the people have seen through that downright LIE they're having to go back to the drawing board, in other words think up another LIE.
 
By the time this their only term in office they will have borrowed more money in 5 years than the Labour party did in their 13 years in office, which just proves the old chestnut was nothing more than a LIE from the beginning, so if Ivan ever needs some of the scandal from the Thatcher Major gov't I remember the bloody lot.:yeahthat:

85,000 more nurses and 32,000 more doctors
-  Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70
-  36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants
-  Nursery school entitlement for all three and four year olds
-  Free fruit for most four to six year-olds at school
-  Child benefit increased by 26% in real terms  
-  Child trust funds set up
-  Over 1 million social homes brought up to standard
-  Working families tax credits
-  Pension credits
-  Winter fuel payments to OAPs  
-  Free prescriptions and eye tests for everyone over the age of 60
-  Free TV licences for over 75s
-  Free bus passes for pensioners
-  VAT on gas and electricity reduced from 8% to 5%
-  Standard rate of income tax cut from 23p in 1997 to 20p (lowest since the 1930s)
-  14,000 more police
-  Free admission to museums and galleries

So 13 years of New Labour and all you can show is a bloated public sector and some free give away gimmicks......all taken back with a vast number of stealth tax measures

What about....
Investment in infrastructure
House building
Investment in Manufacturing
Education, education, education

Its very easy just to manufacture jobs in the public sector, you just throw money at it, but what can Labour REALLY do? What can Labour do to make this country grow again? I don't think you have any ideas at all....Labour is a joke, a parody of what the party was meant to be, a place for plastic lefties to pretend they're socialist

I am not a great fan of Tony Blairs blue, but at least I CAN GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE and he deserves credit for the way he got the UK back on its feet after 18 years of Thatcher NEGLECT.
 
There will be NO CREDIT for Cameron when he leaves office in 2015, the only credit he will get is the WORST PM EVER.:yeahthat:

Redflag wrote:I am not a great fan of Tony Blairs blue, but at least I CAN GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE and he deserves credit for the way he got the UK back on its feet after 18 years of Thatcher NEGLECT.
 
There will be NO CREDIT for Cameron when he leaves office in 2015, the only credit he will get is the WORST PM EVER.:yeahthat:

Isn't it funny how we love to exaggerate to make our point. There were 11 years of Margaret Thatcher and ten of TB.

In a poll of polls as to the best and worst PMs we ever had it seems clear to me that Clement Attlee sweeps the board. In only one of the polls did TB come ahead of MT. She basically trounced him on that basis. I can hear the screams of Tory bias right now from those whose memory is like that of a goldfish and have already forgotten that these same Tory fascists voted Attlee top  . Is it worth noting that that doyen of many posters here, Gordon Brown, in the one poll in which he featured he was propped off the bottom by two truly terrible PMs, Eden and Hume. Cameron will probably squeeze in somewhere above Major and Heath if he's lucky.

I'm sure thatcher is the best President for Hell. and that Blair is the best war criminal ever. Cameron is just the usual tedious conman, with no more character than a motorway coffee.

Penderyn wrote:I'm sure thatcher is the best President for Hell. and that Blair is the best war criminal ever.   Cameron is just the usual tedious conman, with no more character than a motorway  coffee.

With a heart that is COLD AS ICE penderyn

Penderyn wrote:I'm sure thatcher is the best President for Hell. and that Blair is the best war criminal ever.   Cameron is just the usual tedious conman, with no more character than a motorway  coffee.

Made me smile  

"Isn't it funny how we love to exaggerate to make our point. There were 11 years of Margaret Thatcher and ten of TB."

NO!!!! because you are fully aware, as I am where our friend Red was coming from. We can't all pretend to be perfect Bell now can we?

"In only one of the polls did TB come ahead of MT."

When were the other polls conducted Bell? some time ago I would suggest, for if they were conducted now, the results could well be different,as it is now that we are feeling the draught of her evil measures.

Mel wrote:"In only one of the polls did TB come ahead of MT."

When were the other polls conducted Bell? some time ago I would suggest, for if they were conducted now, the results could well be different,as it is now that we are feeling the draught of her evil measures.

Strange thing to ask if you had looked at the link I posted... Hmmm,,,

Apart from that, I wonder whether that would be true. Of course I don't know any more than you BUT the dodgy dossier is like a millstone around TBs neck. MT got us into a war she did not start and then won. TB got us into a war we did start and then ... well look at Iraq now. The war in Iraq is, as a guess, what people remember Blair for. I am sure he did a lot of good but it is not the first thing I would suspect people think of. The war in Iraq - oh that's TB. MT has two positives a lot of people think about 1. She won the Falklands and 2. she defeated Scargill. What her detractors forget is that Scargill is probably a bigger hate figure than she is.

I remember the poll tax and the 15% mortgage rates and standing in line to give up my house and a lot of other things that MT did. For me she presided over the worst period of my life. I could not feed my family and was reliant on 'Red Cross' parcels from my parents and in-laws (and my Dads rather perverse sense of humour did actually make him paint red crosses on one set of parcels  ) BUT most people remember Scargill & Falklands. However Tony Blair = war in Iraq. Ivan (I think) posted a list of positive things the Labour Party did. Whilst I might suggest that some of them were perhaps not the positives he likes to make out this is irrelevant because no one remembers them except his ardent fans. I suspect, and it is only my opinion, that a national vote will always put MT ahead because of 'she won'... 'he lost...'

Mel wrote:"Isn't it funny how we love to exaggerate to make our point. There were 11 years of Margaret Thatcher and ten of TB."

NO!!!! because you are fully aware, as I am where our friend Red was coming from. We can't all pretend to be perfect Bell now can we?

We can at least try and be a reasonable semblance of accurate. Why exaggerate when the truth works? I despised Margaret Thatcher for what she nearly did to my family and what she did to to thousands of others. For six months I lived with my wife's Aunt in Hertfordshire and she lived with her mother in Norwood because I could not afford to pay for their food nor to heat the house. But lets try and keep a grip on the actualities eh?!

“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

oftenwrong wrote:“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.”

He (Reinhold Niebuhr) also said

I think there ought to be a club in which preachers and journalists could come together and have the sentimentalism of the one matched with the cynicism of the other. That ought to bring them pretty close to the truth.

I just looked him up so I make no claims for sudden insight

Bellatori wrote:-
In a poll of polls as to the best and worst PMs we ever had it seems clear to me that Clement Attlee sweeps the board.

 
It's not hard to see why:-
 
[
Source: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BYI0vdtCMAAdL-w.jpg

Ivan wrote:...It's not hard to see why:-

Absolutely... He stands head and shoulders above the others. What is interesting is that one might expect a bias between the polls depending on the underlying population but, although there are slight changes in the other places there was a pretty fair unanimity amongst the whole population that he was the best. The only other PM that came close was Churchill but I have a sneaking suspicion this is because of WWII as a leader rather than his Prime Ministership. Certainly his last spell as PM was a disaster. He spent most of it ill/asleep/drunk and the country was being run by the Grandees.

So who will be civily disobeying on tuesday; or will this prove to be as ineffectual as everything else thus far?

Some people thought we had the makings of a popular uprising in the Summer of 2011.

But it was just looting.

where did i say we should loot?

There is only one thing that will prove FATAL to the coalition gov't and that is a GENERAL STRIKE the lengh and breadth of the UK, its the only thing that will put the wind up them so they have no other option but to call a general election andI would hope the NHS and police and our three armed forces would join us with a united stand against these VILE EVIL shower of NASTY yellow & blue Tories.

"Strange thing to ask if you had looked at the link I posted... Hmmm,,,"

Yes Bell I did see your rather hidden link posted.

My point was and is that the polls you produced are not current. An awful lot of hurt to the general public has come about since the last poll by one newspaper in 2010 and people I speak to at least lay much of the blame for the state of the UK is being laid at Thatcher's door and quite right too.

"a GENERAL STRIKE "

Indeed Red, this is what is required. However there are too many I'm ok Jack's among us who just do not care about their fellow beings (Thatcher's underlying doctine). We unfortunately are not French or Spanish, as we sit and allow ourselves to be down trodden. No guts, no glory, if fact a great majority are politically ignorant or very fickle. Therefore there is not a chance of a GENERAL STRIKE my friend.

Mel wrote:"Strange thing to ask if you had looked at the link I posted... Hmmm,,,"

Yes Bell I did see your rather hidden link posted.

My point was and is that the polls you produced are not current. An awful lot of hurt to the general public has come about since the last poll by one newspaper in 2010 and people I speak to at least lay much of the blame for the state of the UK is being laid at Thatcher's door and quite right too.

Hidden?!  Really?  

The reason I looked at polls is that we tend to get a response from people we speak to that rather aligns with our own viewpoint which is why I took that rather than the opinion of my friends. Speaking of which, one thing seemed I did find a strange dichotomy underlying many of their comments. No one had a good word for her in terms of the Tory government, like me, most of them had had a pretty poor time under her leadership, though they all 'admired' (if that is the right word) her grit and determination. Again I am interpolating here but it seemed to me that this was because of the Falklands and the fact that I don't think they trusted Michael Foot not to have handed the islands over to the Argentinians. This may be doing him a disservice but I think that, given the state of the party in the early 80s, he would have hesitated and, as we all know... he who hesitates....

I get your drift Bell.

Alhough "he who hesitates....." may be taking time out to think properly. I do so with the use of my pipe, a pause to puff gives a time to think.
Bearing in mind fools rush in where wise men fear to tread.

The greatest Tory statesman of the XXth.C. said,  "Jaw jaw is always preferable to War War."

Mel wrote:"a GENERAL STRIKE "

Indeed Red, this is what is required. However there are too many I'm ok Jack's among us who just do not care about their fellow beings (Thatcher's underlying doctine). We unfortunately are not French or Spanish, as we sit and allow ourselves to be down trodden. No guts, no glory, if fact a great majority are politically ignorant or very fickle. Therefore there is not a chance of a GENERAL STRIKE my friend.

During the Maggots reign of terror we rose up for the Poll Tax Mel,what the FCUK happened to that spirit in the people of the UK ? was it because it started here in Scotland and travelled across the border?

Redflag wrote: During the Maggots reign of terror we rose up for the Poll Tax Mel,what the FCUK happened to that spirit in the people of the UK ? was it because it started here in Scotland and travelled across the border?

 
Politics has moved on since then. I think the Tories learned from the Poll tax. Sadly not that unfair legislation will cause mass unrest but more that you need to pick groups off one at a time.
 
Consider the statement
 
Benefits reform has targeted scroungers.
 
Has it? We certainly see lots of play made of the guy with ten kids demanding a bigger house and then you see all the plasma screen TVs being rolled into the house. Films of "invalids" playing golf. I have only heard one program, a short news item, about a suicide because of the work assessment program. Now there may have been others but it is interesting to note that the former easily spring to mind but I have to really work to recall the latter.I found this only relatively recently from the Independant.
 
So that's my take on it. You pick on small groups and make sure the spin makes the papers and news programs before any negative impact shows by which time we are to late to respond.

"Benefits reform has targeted scroungers."

No no no!!! It has targeted every poor sod who is unfortunate enough to to be incapacitated, either by invalidity or mental problems.
The Tory rags/media certainly assist this cruel government in their attack upon these poor souls by highlighting the few who have abused the system. This creates anger(understanably) with working folk and the government are obtaining political gain by way of this type of propaganda.
Of course you will not get the stats from the press nor the media on the number of suicide cases, although no doubt these figs are obtainable somwhere. However, they will obviously not be the subject of high publication.

All chronicled by George Orwell in his seminal novel "1984".  There is nothing new about manipulating people's thoughts.  The Roman Emperors appeased their masses with Bread and circuses two thousand years before The Daily Wail cut down any trees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

Mel wrote:"Benefits reform has targeted scroungers."

No no no!!! It has targeted every poor sod who is unfortunate enough to to be incapacitated, either by invalidity or mental problems.
The Tory rags/media certainly assist this cruel government in their attack upon these poor souls by highlighting the few who have abused the system. This creates anger(understanably) with working folk and the government are obtaining political gain by way of this type of propaganda.
Of course you will not get the stats from the press nor the media on the number of suicide cases, although no doubt these figs are obtainable somwhere. However, they will obviously not be the subject of high publication.

I think you have misunderstood my post. Of course it is targeted at all of them that is why you need a, what I can only call, dishonest approach. My point was that you make a statement like the one I put forward (and they did) and then make sure the examples get wide coverage and there you are, on to the next thing before anyone realises that its a farrago and people are being seriously hurt. Margaret Thatcher made the mistake of being 'honest' about the poll tax. It was not introduced in stages or only for the rich to start with and it was clear to the vast majority including the apathetic middle class that they were about to get creamed. Result - major national revolt. Politicians learned from her mistake and whilst the BBC did talk about the tribulations of the new welfare assessment precious little else was in the newspapers.

"I think you have misunderstood my post."
 
Aww Bell, I think we misunderstand each other at times. I was simply elaborating on what you had said.

Mel wrote:"I think you have misunderstood my post."
 
Aww Bell, I think we misunderstand each other at times. I was simply elaborating on what you had said.

My apologies... I happily retract as we are both obviously in agreement.  

Mel wrote:"Benefits reform has targeted scroungers."

No no no!!! It has targeted every poor sod who is unfortunate enough to to be incapacitated, either by invalidity or mental problems.
The Tory rags/media certainly assist this cruel government in their attack upon these poor souls by highlighting the few who have abused the system. This creates anger(understanably) with working folk and the government are obtaining political gain by way of this type of propaganda.
Of course you will not get the stats from the press nor the media on the number of suicide cases, although no doubt these figs are obtainable somwhere. However, they will obviously not be the subject of high publication.

Mel you should go onto twitter you get plenty of stats and stories from people that know the true number of people that are being driven to commit suicide thanks to this Vile & Nasty gov't.:yeahthat: 

Spot the difference - one picture shows a pair of brutal, sadistic, heartless racketeers, while the other shows Ronnie and Reggie Kray:-
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BaHFC8UIEAA2D31.jpg

There is no difference between them, both pairs are cold blooded killers, the only difference I can see is Cameron and Osborne are LAUGHING while killing people off.:yeahthat:

More of a Prosecco girl, myself

Extracts from a blog by Charlotte Church:-

On Saturday I was one of 250 citizens who met at the Queen’s Street statue of Aneurin Bevan, to protest the Tories’ austerity measures, with the Cardiff People’s Assembly. Thankfully, it’s my democratic right to do so. Whilst I was aware that my presence at the rally could attract the media, I’m sure that you’ll be shocked to hear that I didn’t do it for some self-aggrandising purpose. My only motivation for attending was to try to make a difference; to further political discourse in my community.

For Andrew R.T Davies, the leader of the Welsh Conservatives, to describe my exercising of democratic freedom, as “unbecoming”, really says more than I ever could. Perhaps Andrew thinks I should get back to the ironing and stop babbling on about air-headed notions such as protecting the NHS (a system that Davies himself has been most mobile in attacking), fighting for a fairer society (a concept that entirely eludes his party), and championing the plight of those in society who are less privileged than me.

As for him, and others, denigrating me as a “champagne socialist”, I have to say I’m more of a Prosecco girl, myself. I was born in a working-class family who have for generations been active in political protest. I was 9 years old when I was first taken to a demonstration by my mother. I have earned a lot of money from creating music, but I’ve stayed in Cardiff, where my family are, where the people I grew up with are, where my roots are. I could have moved to LA. I could have made a lot more money by investing in arms and oil, rather than ethically. I could have voted Tory.

For the whole blog:-
https://charlottesayshmmm.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/more-of-a-prosecco-girl-myself/

The Tory tyrants have won by default. SNP and the useless UKIP votes along with the bloody LD supporters in the West country voting Tory, was more than enough to put Labour out.

We had Clegg claiming the credit for the same things Cameron took credit for, all of which was of course distorted and manufactured.
Why the Labour politicians are not using my above correct analysis,
I do not know. They blame Ed and the Labour policies. The policies were fine and as I said, Labour would have won but for Tory default win. Can anyone tell me if SNP can put pressure on Cameron re austerity measures and in particular welfare reform and all the horror that goes with it? I fear not.