Is the United Kingdom doomed?

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Exactly what I’ve been predicting for a long time. I said that if the Tories, so hated in Scotland that they have only one MP, came to power at Westminster again, the Scots would decide that they’d rather go it alone. Apparently, Scottish independence now has majority backing north of the border and in the UK as a whole, according to a new poll.

Research by ComRes for ‘The Independent on Sunday’ and ‘The Sunday Mirror’ found that support for the move had risen sharply over recent months. The results are a boost for First Minister Alex Salmond as his Scottish National Party prepares to hold its autumn conference in Inverness.

In the UK overall, 39% of those surveyed agreed that Scotland should be an independent country - an increase of six points since May. The number disagreeing with the statement had fallen four points to 38%.
In Scotland, the proportion supporting independence was up 11 points over the period at 49%. Some 37% disagreed - down by nine points.

The SNP, which won an unprecedented overall majority in May elections, has promised to hold a referendum on independence towards the end of its five-year term.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/majority-back-scottish-independence-193447501.html

As you say, Redflag, time will tell. But any regular Poker player will back the imperturbable Salmond against blushing Cameron.

oftenwrong wrote:As you say, Redflag, time will tell.  But any regular Poker player will back the imperturbable Salmond against blushing Cameron.

I would agree with your thought OW Scam..eron has not got two brain cells to rub together to cause a spark.

The Tory Party have always known that they need a televisual "pretty face" to lead the Party. The Labour Party is still working on that.

bobby wrote:Lets face it Red, If Herr Cameron grew a second brain, it would be bloody lonely.

The only thing that Cameron can grow is Butt fluff.

Alex Salmond has today put the matter of Scottish Independence firmly on the front burner.

The Scots must do as they choose of course, but are the other components of the present UK to be spectators only?

English people may find themselves reluctant to continue subsidies which allegedly amount to some £2000 per Jock, and would probably reject any "rescue" in the event of a future Scottish Bank crashing. The widely-held belief that England is hostage to £60billion of export trade with Scotland is no more likely to take effect than did our similar trade with Ireland when it adopted the Euro.

It seems to me that all Parties intending to contest Westminster in 2015 had better start publicising their firm intentions on Scottish Independence, PDQ.

So you are believing the crap that DC is feeding you OW, shame on you, I live in Scotland and it does not cost the English £2000 per Jock, our taxes is 9.9%  of which we get back 9.3% so England gains 0/06% of our taxes plus England has had the tax from OUR North Sea Oil &  Gas since the 1970s with us not gaining from that at all its all went into the London treasury to benefit London and the people of England.:yeahthat:

I think this article by John Wight on why he will be voting against Scottish independence is both thoughtful and persuasive:-

Scottish independence issue reminds of solidarity

http://rt.com/op-edge/scottish-independence-reminds-of-solidarity-414/

I think Ivan us Scots are savvy enough to workout we would be better off staying with the UK, Salmond has been caught out twice lying to the people of Scotland sayimg he had taken legal advice about our position within the EU when it was a lie he had not.   The white paper he published on the 26th November does not say anymore than is already out there, the last poll that was taken here in Scotland was 57% against 39% forthe rest are still undecided.

The only thing that will change the Scots minds if they thought for one moment that England would vote the Tories back into power in 2015 the majority of Scots WOULD vote Yes to Independence. :yeahthat:

Redflag wrote:...The only thing that will change the Scots minds if they thought for one moment that England would vote the Tories back into power in 2015 the majority of Scots WOULD vote Yes to Independence... 

This is one thing we can agree on. If the Tories get back in in 2015 I am moving to rejoin my relatives in Peterhead.

If the Tory landlords are re-elected in 2015, the first thing they will need to do is to rebuild Hadrian's Wall - to stem the outflow of English.

I agree OW any of our English friends and family would be very welcome here in Scotland, it is rather funny because I was thinking that if Scots voted for Independence I would want to move to England. :yeahthat:

 
As I live in Scotland I think that gives me the creditability to talk about Wee Alec (Salmond) he is nothing more that a wee man wanting to be a tall one, and the only way he can grow a few feet taller is by getting power and the title President of Scotland, even after Mark Carney govener BoE that Scotland would end up in the same predicement as Greece Spain Italy the poor relation of england if by some stupid move vote yes in the upcoming referendum on 18th September. 

I love Scotland, have a huge respect for the Scots and would have been proud to have been born one ( Derby was as close as my parents managed on my arrival).

Those Scots surely cannot be mad enough to vote for 'independence'...

I can understand the Scots (with only one Tory MP at Westminster) being tempted to make their country a Tory-free zone for ever and ever by becoming independent. I hope they don't, because we can do with their 41 Labour MPs (though contrary to Tory mythology, Labour would still have won the elections of 1997, 2001 and 2005 without them).
 
Where the issue of independence seems to have degenerated into farce is by firstly the SNP leadership saying that they would keep the monarchy, and secondly by saying they would continue to use the pound. It looks as if Salmond and his pals want to reduce Scotland to the status of an English colony.
 
Not sure what this has to do with UKIP though.....  

IVAN Not forgetting only one Tory MSP the rest come from the list, if Scotland does vote for Independence Ivan it will be for the reason you have given to be free forever of VILE NASTY Tories.   As for Farage Ivan he arrived in Edinburgh and was lucky to get out with his life, because Scots know what Ukip are "Second Hand Tories". Farage may be able to kid our friends in England but not here in Scotland we can spot a Tory at 50 paces.
 
I like yourself hope that us Scots vote NO on the 18th September it looks good at the moment and Mark Carney has given the Scots something to think about regarding the £ and when it is properly explained to them so they understand it as we are not Economists Scotland will join with their friends & family in England and give Davy boy and his band of Robbers the Order of the Boot in May 2015. 

Ivan

It looks as if Salmond and his pals want to reduce Scotland to the status of an English colony.

Well Governor General does sound grander than First Minister.

Not sure what this has to do with UKIP though.....

There is a significance inasmuch as Nigel got such short shrift from the locals when he triumphally visited Scotland but was rapidly excreted, so it's not only a Tory-free zone but also UKIP-lite.

Thank God somebody has some sense.

astradt1 wrote:Well Governor General does sound grander than First Minister.

 
He is looking for something better than Governor General astradt1. Salmond is hoping for First President of Scotland and do not think that he will accept anything lower. 

"First President of Scotland"

Will he have to follow the French precedent and acquire a mistress? Who might Alex choose, and can he ride a motorcycle?

(guardian)

" Before I sign this sale agreement, David, do you think the Honda 50 will provide a fast-enough getaway...?"

oftenwrong wrote:"First President of Scotland"

Will he have to follow the French precedent and acquire a mistress?  Who might Alex choose, and can he ride a motorcycle?

He has a wide choice of mistresses OW quite a lot of SNP MSP are female, but do not know if he legs are bigger enough to reach across a motor cycle   

Rory Bremner on why a 'Yes' vote is becoming more attractive:-
 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh1FjCUIUAAzoOf.jpg

You've been conned, Ivan. That picture is surely one of David Moyes, whose union with Manchester United may well be similarly ended by a decision around September 2014...



(mirror)

For most of us, I think, it is that 'England' is the centre for some peculiarly smelly robbers and some particularly vomitous forelock-tuggers that makes the problem. They have stolen everything that isn't nailed down from pretty well everywhere, so we'd be poor if we break free. If we have sufficient control over our own affairs it doesn't matter much, formal 'independence', or poverty, but I must admit I'd prefer to see the looting scumbags kicking the wind because the 'English' had woken up.

I agree Penderyn up to a cetain extent with your post, but at the moment I do not trust Salmond he is an unknown quanity in regards to his politics (right ot left) the only thing I do know about Salmond is that if it had not been for Salmond Thatcher would not have had a majority in her gov't in 1979. 

As getting the block grant cut recently proves, the "union" is a highly abusive one, and Scotland is now in a "do or die" situation where independence = survival! I'm an American-born Scot (and I refuse to say Scottish- "American"), so my loyalty lies with my ancestral home and her welfare. I see the situation where for the last 307 years, Westminster has lived high off of Scottish wealth, whilst forcing Scots (and Scotland) to rummage through the bins for scraps, both figuratively and literally! In order to survive, we as Scots need to break this nasty relationship; Westminster has a bad habit of refusing to change unless it's dragged kicking & screaming into the modern era, and cannot be relied upon to loosen up. It shouldn't take another disaster to force WM to get with the era... though I will argue the socially backsliding Tories are that disaster in progress! No matter what, Scotland shouldn't be forced to suffer WM's mismanagement any further; this amongst others is why I fully support independence!

this amongst others is why I fully support independence!

Well its just as well you don't have a vote then isn't it

Every day now there is a fresh comment from some English-owned company or another, wagging an admonitory finger at the Scots, warning of dire consequences following from a Declaration of Independence.

A historical decision in 1776 was not totally without financial advantage to the newly independent.

oftenwrong wrote:Every day now there is a fresh comment from some English-owned company or another, wagging an admonitory finger at the Scots, warning of dire consequences following from a Declaration of Independence.

A historical decision in 1776 was not totally without financial advantage to the newly independent.

A great pity these bullying blatherers couldn't be silenced. They make the main case for independence with their oafish impertinence.

oftenwrong wrote:Every day now there is a fresh comment from some English-owned company or another, wagging an admonitory finger at the Scots, warning of dire consequences following from a Declaration of Independence.

A historical decision in 1776 was not totally without financial advantage to the newly independent.

What frightens me about Salmond and his SNP party if he gets into power if Scotland says yes we will just get what Davy Boy and his mob are handing out the the entire UK, right wing politics where big business rules the roost and the rest of us can go hang.  

Redflag wrote:What frightens me about Salmond and his SNP party if he gets into power if Scotland says yes  we will just get what Davy Boy and his mob are handing out the the entire UK, right wing politics where big business rules the roost and the rest of us can go hang.  

 
Yes - but it's not very likely , unless the bossboys start thinking their opinions matter, and begin bawling .

Firstly, let me welcome April Thompson to Cutting Edge.
 
I don’t want to see Scotland leave the UK, because it would mean at least 41 fewer Labour MPs at Westminster from March 2016, when independence would take effect. However, I can understand those Scots who want to make their country a Tory-free zone for ever and ever. Since 1997, the Scots have never sent more than 1 Tory MP (out of 59) to Westminster, so why should they be in any way subject to rule by the posh boys and spivs?
 
One argument that’s put forward against independence is that Scotland is too small to exist on its own. Scotland has a population of about 5.3 million, which is more than the number of people who live in 9 of the 28 EU countries - Ireland, Croatia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Latvia, Estonia, Cyprus, Luxembourg and Malta. But the main case presented by the ‘Better Together’ camp seems to consist of bullying tactics and threats from firms to take their toys and go and play elsewhere if they don’t get their way.
 
I don’t see Alex Salmond as anything like a Tory, and I don’t think the Scots would put up with him if he was! Correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t there free prescriptions and no tuition fees in Scotland? Not exactly Tory policies!
 
As an interested observer from the deep south of England, what mystifies me is why an independent Scotland would want to keep either the monarchy or the pound. I understand Nicola Sturgeon’s argument that it’s not the English pound, and that it belongs to the Scots as much as the rest of the UK, but if you want to pull out of the union, I think the onus is on you to make your own currency arrangements. I can’t see how sharing the currency of the rest of the UK – and being affected by decisions made by the Bank of England - could make full independence for Scotland possible. Nevertheless, I do think that if its people vote for independence, Scotland could adopt the euro and probably do quite well as a separate member of the EU. But as I said, I don’t want to see it go!

IVAN Scotland already is a Tory free zone, since the Thatchers gov't Scots have not voted Tory we only have 1 Tory MSP and 1Tory MP the rest of them came off the list we use a form of PR voting here in Scotland.
 
Better together is not the only one using bullying tactics Ivan, the yes campaign will go to any lenghs to disrupt the better together meetings it is that bad that you do not know until the day of the meeting where it will be held, I have been there and seen it for myself, the better together have had to call police to move them on.   Try going on twitter and say you will be voting NO, the bullying really gets bad on there which only makes me think why are they so DESPERATE for a yes vote ??
 
Salmond wanting to be Independent from England then hand back the financial side to the gov't WHY??  You will remember Ivan Salmond supported Thatcher in the gov't of 1979 that makes me wonder is the reason now she did not pay him enough for that support ??
 
I know I will be voting NO at least we can get rid of the Tories in May 2015 but with Salmond being the only one to write Scotland's constitution how long would it take us to get rid of him or would he turn out to be a little Hitler like Putin in Russia or as bad as one of the despots in the middle east countries. 

In a week during which the Government suggested that British pensioners should be allowed to decide how to deal with their own money, it seems churlish to criticise the Scots' entitlement to choose their own destiny.

Geronimo.................!!!!

Your spot on OW that is all it would be a GIANT LEAP into the dark if the Scots vote Yes on the 18th Sept, we do know Salmond want to run Scotland the same way as Davy boy & Diddy Giddy runs the UK.   With big business been first in the line for money he wants to cut Corporation tax for business to attract them to Scotland then Davy boy will have to reduce there rate of Corporation tax to keep them in London/England, from then on it will be a race to the bottom with big business been the winner every time.

Then when Davy boy wants to make more cuts in England, he will blame Scotland for breaking away from the UK, saying he had to reduce Corporation tax to keep bisnesses and jobs within England.  

What would happen to those peers, of all parties, in the event of a yes vote in the referendum for Scottish Independence?

Would they still be able to sit and vote in the House of Lords?

So far it has all been about powers which Scotland would gain and the loss of Scottish MP's but I have not heard about what would happen to the peers?

The comparison might be with all those still-living English Lords with Irish titles. Valued on a par with Duke Ellington and the Artist formerly known as Prince.

bobby wrote: this amongst others is why I fully support independence!

Well its just as well you don't have a vote then isn't it

What our friends & family seem to forget bobby, if Scots vote Yes and leave the UK that could leave England with a permanant Tory gov't because then the Tories would do a boundary change making sure the working man/women voice would never be heard in politics or anything else, back to the 18th Century when the workers did not even have the vote.  

Red
"this amongst others is why I fully support independence!" This part of the post was written by April Thompson and my response to it was
Well its just as well you don't have a vote then isn't it