How long do you think the coalition will last?

First topic message reminder :

I want people's opinion of how long they think this coalition will last. ?

Adele Carlyon wrote:Who's the "enemy within"?

UKIP and the BNP, nobody wants nationalism, nationalism is what brought Germany and Italy to their knees. We need Europe, but in moderation, don't want to be strangled by them though. All we want to do is trade with them, but without all their rules and regulations. Brown did the right thing keeping us out of the Euro, i didn't care much for the Franc, Mark, and Lira either. If Hitler and Mussolini had had their way we would probably have been spending one or the other, or maybe both.

All I see when I look at those two is racism.

Racism, man's gravest threat to man. The maximum of hatred for a minimum of reason...
Abraham J. Heschel.

Whenever two or more people band together to promote an agenda, it always ends up as a Power Game.

oftenwrong wrote:Whenever two or more people band together to promote an agenda, it always ends up as a Power Game.

Politics is a power game, one party politics means absolute power, otherwise known has a dictatorship. There is even a power game going on in the coalition, i know both the Tory and Lib/Dem leaders are a couple of feather weights, but there is a power game going on anyway.

Jack, since 1972 (that's 40 YEARS!) I have NEVER EVER seen a British Government, or an MP stand up to the slavver and pallaver from the EU. WE always cow tow to the eurocrats! France, Spain and Italy will to an extent do as they are 'told', but only if it suits them mind!

We need our Steel and Manufacturing Base NOW, not some expensive dream that is now turning sour, (and for which the uK has paid dearly!)

The EU only see Great Britain as a service nation with no means of pulling itself out of THEIR mire!

astra wrote:Jack, since 1972 (that's 40 YEARS!) I have NEVER EVER seen a British Government, or an MP stand up to the slavver and pallaver from the EU. WE always cow tow to the eurocrats! France, Spain and Italy will to an extent do as they are 'told', but only if it suits them mind!

We need our Steel and Manufacturing Base NOW, not some expensive dream that is now turning sour, (and for which the uK has paid dearly!)

The EU only see Great Britain as a service nation with no means of pulling itself out of THEIR mire!

Astra, i left school aged 14 years and started work at the local colliery in 1946, even then i knew that if you took 1972 away from 2012 it would leave 40, no explanation was nessessary. During that time i have seen a Conservative government take us into the Common Market and then the European Union, even though their MP's are most against our participation in the union. We once had great ship builders, where the best in the world for steel making, we built our own trains and carriages, mined our own coal, and had some of the best car makers in the world. I have seen the decline and mostly closures of all the said industries, by the Tories, our utility companies were sold off, mainly to continental companies, (water, gas, and electric) by a party and government who claim they don't want to be part of the European union, well, not in the way they want anyway. It is true we are a service country now not a manufacturing, i think that should read a servile country, we are too reliant on the europeans now.

Jack. I think Astra's saying "since 1972"(thats 40 years) was in no way meant as a slight on your mathmatical powers, but simply putting emphasis on how long it has been.

Commons Speaker John Bercow claims voters feel let down by mainstream political parties because they have not got what they voted for.
In a stinging verdict on the local election results, which saw poor turnout and a drubbing for the coalition, he suggested people felt disillusioned because the parties are 'quite similar' and there 'isn't a huge choice'.The Speaker, who is expected to remain politically impartial at all times, claimed many people are 'suspicious or even despairing' about the political system.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2140316/Voters-havent-got-wanted-Speaker-Bercow-says-voters-despairing-politics-stinging-attack-local-election-results.html#ixzz1uTfpqKrF

Exactly what I have been saying really

Blue, the only consistant thing about your posts are there total inconsistency, What you have been saying is that Labour bad, Tory Good, then Tory shit then spend the rest of your time slagging off anything or anyone Labour.

No Bobby......I am not saying Tory good and I have slated them and the coalition over and over again in recent weeks.

I am saying and have been saying in previous posts, that none of the main 3 parties are fit to govern the country right now. They all make promises they know they cannot keep. Sacrifice the majority in favour of the minority and don't have the slightest idea on how to get us and the EU out of the mess we are in.
I haven't heard one politician come up with a workable idea yet

So just to clarify.......Tories sh*t, Labour sh*t, Lib Dems even more sh*t

So much "shit" blue so which party in your opinion is a VIABLE alternative?

Come on then, it's all very well just talking and condemning.

If you don't have one in mind, where do you vote from here? and please don't say you will abstain.

Adele Carlyon wrote:

Redflag wrote:

Adele Carlyon wrote:I must track down that paper, then I can wipe me botty on it!

OMG Adele don't do that you don't know what you'll catch off that paper, all sort of nasty things it would be alright to clean up doggie poo.

Or lining the cat litter tray!

That is all it would be fit for cat and doggie POO.

So much "shit" blue so which party in your opinion is a VIABLE alternative?
Come on then, it's all very well just talking and condemning.

If you don't have one in mind, where do you vote from here? and please don't say you will abstain

I cannot see a viable alternative right now, so yes I would abstain. Some people will just vote for tribalistic reasons, I would prefer to vote for a party that would do what they say and have good ideas....which excludes the main 3.

blue. It would seem that you will obviously abstain from voting at the next GE.
Some people will abstain because the are either ditherers who just cannot make up their minds on anything or alternatively they are never satisfied with anything. Surely you do not come into that category blue?

The people who say UKIP is racist need to check the www.ukip website and check the candidates. I am not a racist I am a realist that suffocatin of our country is wrong especially as it is getting Britain deeper and deeper into debt. What country will help us out I ask you?.

Frances Fox wrote:The people who say UKIP is racist need to check the www.ukip website and check the candidates. I am not a racist I am a realist that suffocatin of our country is wrong especially as it is getting Britain deeper and deeper into debt. What country will help us out I ask you?.

I have always thought that UKIP was an off shot of the Tory party, I agree this lot are just getting us further into debt, your question WHO WILL LEND US MONEY BECAUSE WE ARE SKINT, Answer NOBODY but they same ones will be knocking the UK door caps in hand.

I would like to hear from any voter who intends to cast their ballot in favour of a candidate whose Party they DON'T want to win.

The evidence of two years ago (reinforced last week) is that many people see voting for one of the principal parties as equivalent to choosing between drowning, electrocution or poisoning.

blueturando said: I cannot see a viable alternative right now, so yes I would abstain. Some people will just vote for tribalistic reasons, I would prefer to vote for a party that would do what they say and have good ideas....which excludes the main 3.

We know for fact that as you put it "Tory Shit,Lib-Dem Shit" but how do you know what Ed Miliband will do. Herr Cameron and his lap Dog Clegg have both lied through their back teeth, so perhaps you could tell us with the aid of your crystal ball, just what Ed Miliband has said that he will not do. He Ed Miliband has even been honest enough with the electorate to tell us that he will not make any prommises now, as he can not guarantee keeping them as the Tories work to reduce our economy even more. We are already in the expected (by everyone but your Tories) double dip recession, the next step will be depression, unless they come up with a viable plan B.

I will be very interested to hear from you where Ed Miliband has been anything other than Honest and Statesmanlike. And remember we are talking about the next General Election, not Thatcher or Kinnock

Yet another poll this morning puts UKIP neck and neck with the Lib Dems ( YouGov - The Sun ), but we must remember that all opinion polls show the political parties from where they currently stand, with the Lib Dems presently been the third party.

One thing is certain, and that is that UKIP are on the rise, mostly or mainly from dissafected Tories, the question is - will this continue on and will UKIP make a Parliamentary breakthrough soon ?, and if they do, will this be a significant turning point in British politics.

I hope UKIP keep the momentum going!

Just look at the changes in Scotland since 1974 (start of SNP). Politicians in Lunding HAD to do something to quell the anti Westminster feeling in Jockland or face the consequenses.

It is to be noted that SINGULARLY (up to now) it is the Bories who have NOT changed course, and the clanns therefore find them unelectable

Now to England -

All 3 parties in Westminster, have been treating England and Wales with EXACTLY the same disdain as has ever been thrown at Scotland, and I believe that they have slept in, missed the wake up call!

UKIP are recieving exactly the same treatment at the hands of the "Rulling Classes" now as SNP did all those years ago

Those in Westminster have ignored the past, and IMO are repeating it's mistakes!

To add to the above post -

Governance in UK since 1960, has only been for the rest of the parliamentary term!

"Leave it for the next PM to think about!

It's why they Sh1t themselves when they get a second term!

I will be very interested to hear from you where Ed Miliband has been anything other than Honest and Statesmanlike. And remember we are talking about the next General Election, not Thatcher or Kinnock.

Honesty in opposition is very subjective as you don't have make good on any of your promises.....Just ask any Lib Dem voter
I can only go on what has come before Ed and what he has shown in opposition......so here goes.

A succession of Tory and Labour governments have mis-managed the economy and the regulation of our financial institutions to point where these institutions now have more power that these governments. One government and one country cannot change this alone as we are in a global market. So I believe the only way to restore the balance of power is for all countries in the G20 and beyond to come together and have a global policy on the world financial institutions....We and the rest of the world are at the mercy of, and have left our lives in the hands of the financial markets and the people that run these markets are only interested in personal gain and greed.....If they done like it we can close them down globally

This next bit is quite radical, but after the worlds governments restore this balance of power I would then cancel ALL government debts around the world......We need at start from 'Go' approach or I cannot see us getting out of the current situation for many, many years to come.

Going back to Ed......Well I cannot see any difference from the Coalition. He has refused to say he would reverse any cuts made by the coalition. He knows that a Labour government would also have to make serious cuts, but refuses to say where....but still opposes every cut the coalition comes up with, knowing he would have to do the same.....So along with a majority of voters I dont trust him or Labour on the economy
I don't think he is 'Statesman like' at all and comes across as weak and wimpy.....The nerdy kid getting revenge for years of bullying. I think he would get eaten alive on the world stage

blueturando said: Going back to Ed......Well I cannot see any difference from the Coalition. He has refused to say he would reverse any cuts made by the coalition. He knows that a Labour government would also have to make serious cuts, but refuses to say where.

Firstly, at the time of the last General Election do you remember the time just after Gordon Brown bailed the Banks out with his policy and speedy reaction, and at a time when unemployment was reducing and the economy in growth (if you have a good memory, you may remember what that was, it was something we had until David Cameronov and Gideon screwed it all up). Alastair Darling told us all about his plan to halve the deficit in 4 years, thereby no having to cut too deep and too quickly and not damage the already fragile state of affairs bought about by the Global Banking Crisis.

Well Blue, its all been explained in plain English time and again, so allow me to use an analogy.

You as a business man employ a few people, and lets say your company is suffering and losing money due to a Tory recession, what then if one of your employee’s came to you and said “ I know business isn’t too good but can you tell me what sort of pay rise you will give me in 3 or 4 years time, what would your answer be to that employee. Would you make a promise you probably wont be able to keep and lose any respect from the employee, or will you say, “ I don’t know what financial state the firm will be in in 3 or 4 years time, so I cant tell you now, come and speak to me at a later date.

Going by your condemnation of Ed Miliband not making a promise he doesn’t know if he can keep, I guess you would promise the world to your employee to keep him/her sweet however temporary that might be, in the hope something happens to sort the problem.

Blue you are being totally unfair towards Ed Miliband. You say “I don't think he is 'Statesman like' at all and comes across as weak and wimpy.....The nerdy kid getting revenge for years of bullying. I think he would get eaten alive on the world stage”

If that were truly the case, why then until the last Budget did you have nothing but praise for almost everything David Cameronov did or said, when he was being beaten on a weekly basis by Ed Miliband and unable or unwilling to answer the simplest of questions. You as I, have seen Ed Miliband show passion and Intelligence in debate, but has never lost his temper as does David Cameronov, and all we get from Cameronov is shouting whilst making personal attacks. I take it you thought him to be statesmanlike, or why up until very recently did you lend your support to such a nasty aggressive individual.

Anything you condemn Ed Miliband about is based on Hypotheses. He has openly apologised for the mistakes made by the previous Labour Government and has said he will learn from those mistakes, so what more could you want, unless you are not prepared to give what seems to be an honest man, the benefit of your doubts.

QUOTE (1) I haven't heard one politician come up with a workable idea yet

QUOTE (2) Honesty in opposition is very subjective as you don't have make good on any of your promises.....

Damned if they do, and damned if they don't then, Blue. Yes?

There is a very interesting article in The Guardian today by Patrick Wintour, and he poses a very interesting question - what if Labour need the Lib Dems after the next election. ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/may/11/labour-liberal-democrats-ippr

It is possible that we could face another hung Parliament but with Labour been the largest party, what should Ed Miliband do in such circumstances.?
Would going into some kind of pact or agreement with the Lib Dems be an act of treachery after what they have done, would Labour voters be outraged. ?

witchfinder wrote: It is possible that we could face another hung Parliament but with Labour been the largest party, what should Ed Miliband do in such circumstances.?
Would going into some kind of pact or agreement with the Lib Dems be an act of treachery after what they have done, would Labour voters be outraged. ?

My belief is that under the circumstance posed. Labour should Govern with a minority Government, then we would see just how passionate the Lib-Dems are about clearing up the mess left by the previous Coalition Government and doing whats best for the Country, or is their favourite expression “ we are coming together (they had better remember to change hands on the 99^th stroke) for the sake of the country, or something equally sickening. I do not think for one moment the Lib-Dems will put their hands up and say that they have equal responsibility for a failing Nation. I as a Labour member and voter would certainly be outraged. I would rather be out of office than do a deal with the treacherous Lib-Dems, for me it would be tantamount to doing a deal with David Cameronov himself.

Politicians are also pragmatists.

Three of the last four Prime Ministers were happy to act as lap-dancers for Murdoch, and the Lib-Dems would have formed a coalition with Bin Laden to be in Government.

If the next General Election too is indecisive, the usual horse-trading will substitute for true Democratic choice.

So then, a change of regime with a new French President who was elected with the help of the green Party and accordingly declared a reduction in France's reliance upon Nuclear Energy.

Unfortunately for Britain, our lights will begin to flicker and go out in about six years time WITHOUT imports from Electricite de France to maintain supplies.

witchfinder wrote:-
What if Labour need the Lib Dems after the next election?

I agree with bobby. If that happened, Labour should rule as a minority government rather than have anything to do with those snakes. However, the chance of such a scenario occurring is quite remote, for the following reasons:-

1. About 70% of those who voted Lib Dem last time have switched their allegiance to Labour. That in itself makes an outright Labour majority highly likely.

2. The Lib Dems appear to be on course for almost a wipeout at the next election. Some polls predict that their number of MPs will be in single figures, so they won’t be in much of a position to join any coalition.

3. Since 1974, when Harold Wilson called a general election only seven months after the previous one, no ruling party has increased its percentage share of the vote in the subsequent election. The Tories only managed 36% last time, and they’re not exactly making new friends these days. I can't see anyone who didn't vote for the Tories in 2010 being tempted to switch to them next time.

1. About 70% of those who voted Lib Dem last time have switched their allegiance to Labour. That in itself makes an outright Labour majority highly likely.

Yeah! That means about 50% of the 30% of the population who make the effort to vote might give us a quasi labour government...things can only get better! ha ha ha

65% of the electorate voted in the 2010 general election. Are you implying that voting should be compulsory?

Are you implying that voting should be compulsory?

I'm implying that nobody should vote, because there is no party worth voting for.

If you think that's apathetic, or 'fence-sitting', than your wrong - it's what has to happen, or else.

.....voting should be compulsory?

- to be honest, it would be amusing - when one considers that 70% of the electorate are politcally ignorant, and absolutely clueless morons regarding current affairs, economics, etc.

Yeah! Bring it on - make all the effing idiots vote.....after all, lifes a lottery, innit? We may as well make misinformed decisions guide the way we live our lives....what have the majority got left to lose anyway?

Quote : " when one considers that 70% of the electorate are politcally ignorant, and absolutely clueless morons regarding current affairs, economics, etc."

Gosh. I hadn't realised that the Tories received as much as 70% support at the last Election....

A current MSN poll makes interesting reading ....

http://news.uk.msn.com/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=161362457

Phil Hornby wrote:Quote : " when one considers that 70% of the electorate are politcally ignorant, and absolutely clueless morons regarding current affairs, economics, etc."

Gosh. I hadn't realised that the Tories received as much as 70% support at the last Election....

That tickled me that did your holiness!

bobby wrote:witchfinder wrote: It is possible that we could face another hung Parliament but with Labour been the largest party, what should Ed Miliband do in such circumstances.?
Would going into some kind of pact or agreement with the Lib Dems be an act of treachery after what they have done, would Labour voters be outraged. ?

My belief is that under the circumstance posed. Labour should Govern with a minority Government, then we would see just how passionate the Lib-Dems are about clearing up the mess left by the previous Coalition Government and doing whats best for the Country, or is their favourite expression “ we are coming together (they had better remember to change hands on the 99^th stroke) for the sake of the country, or something equally sickening. I do not think for one moment the Lib-Dems will put their hands up and say that they have equal responsibility for a failing Nation. I as a Labour member and voter would certainly be outraged. I would rather be out of office than do a deal with the treacherous Lib-Dems, for me it would be tantamount to doing a deal with David Cameronov himself.

I think your correct bobby, by the time that the next G.E. is called the L/Ds will be so tainted Labour or any other party will not touch them (coalition wise) with a fifty foot barge pole as the Labour voters would not stand for it, I would like to know the excuse they would use to explain been the Tory lap dog and letting the Tories away with making the low paid pay for the B(W)ankers night out at the CASINO'S.

"A current MSN poll makes interesting reading ...."

Indeed OW it would seem from that poll that most of us here on these threads (apart from the few Tory supporters and political fence sitters who hate Labour for some pathetic reason) agree that since this cruel Tory dominated government came to power, things have definately got worse as the poll indicates.

The excuse of course (if there is one from Camer-con) will be that we are suffering for the EURO CRISIS. I bet they just cant wait for Greece to go under as that will take place and overtake and smother the issues that are so damaging to the Coalition at present. In that event of course they can really use that happening as the full excuse to cover up their real objective which is to implement Tory ideology at its most prolific and fiercest.
Let's face it, that is all they were ever interested in doing from day one. The economy, the safeguard and assistance to the majority and even winning the next election were IMO a second priority, or perhaps not a priority at all.
They were fully aware of the fact that they would only last one term in any case, hence the bringing in of the FIXED 5yr term says everything.

Clegg and Cameron's cruellest day

Extracts from an article by Polly Toynbee:-

"This government's blend of incompetence and ideological rigidity would be a fascinating spectacle if we were distant bystanders. The bungling and dogmatism are unrivalled in postwar Britain.

Iain Duncan Smith seems to enjoy shocking ‘Telegraph’ readers with a boast that half a million people will lose disability living allowances: thalidomide victims and servicemen who have lost limbs may not qualify. All will undergo new tests: "They were just allowed to fester", he says. Exactly £2.24bn will be saved, so he must have preordained the number who must fail.

Nick Clegg makes yet another speech claiming to promote social mobility, despite myriad policies to the contrary. Does it fool any of the people any of the time?

Cameron will meet Mitt Romney as a candidate, having snubbed Francois Hollande. Boris Johnson calls for a Tory – "someone who is free market" – to be BBC director general, setting a terrible precedent by making it a political post. Whatever they do, the crass and the cruel collide with cuts designed to diminish the state for ever.

Try though Osborne did to frighten the markets with the comparison, luckily we are not Greece. We have choices. We need not cut so deep, we can borrow to invest, as Blair, Mandelson and Darling now join forces with the two Eds to urge. Business is protesting at scorched earth austerity after two years of failure, and Labour policies for investment in growth now look mainstream, while Tory austerity looks extreme."

For the full article:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/14/clegg-cameron-cruellest-business-disabled

They really are a set of bastards you know! I hate evry last thing they stand for! The utter soulless pigs! Shame on them for the misery they are causing to people.

Ivan wrote:Clegg and Cameron's cruellest day

Extracts from an article by Polly Toynbee:-

"This government's blend of incompetence and ideological rigidity would be a fascinating spectacle if we were distant bystanders. The bungling and dogmatism are unrivalled in postwar Britain.

Iain Duncan Smith seems to enjoy shocking ‘Telegraph’ readers with a boast that half a million people will lose disability living allowances: thalidomide victims and servicemen who have lost limbs may not qualify. All will undergo new tests: "They were just allowed to fester", he says. Exactly £2.24bn will be saved, so he must have preordained the number who must fail.

Nick Clegg makes yet another speech claiming to promote social mobility, despite myriad policies to the contrary. Does it fool any of the people any of the time?

Cameron will meet Mitt Romney as a candidate, having snubbed Francois Hollande. Boris Johnson calls for a Tory – "someone who is free market" – to be BBC director general, setting a terrible precedent by making it a political post. Whatever they do, the crass and the cruel collide with cuts designed to diminish the state for ever.

Try though Osborne did to frighten the markets with the comparison, luckily we are not Greece. We have choices. We need not cut so deep, we can borrow to invest, as Blair, Mandelson and Darling now join forces with the two Eds to urge. Business is protesting at scorched earth austerity after two years of failure, and Labour policies for investment in growth now look mainstream, while Tory austerity looks extreme."

For the full article:-
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/14/clegg-cameron-cruellest-business-disabled

Ivan I think most of us knew what Polly Toynbee has said in her column, that is why I joined the Labour party in 2010, after going through what Thatcher done to the UK sold off all our public assets sold the council houses put Millions on the dole then had the cheek to say it was a price worth paying, but Scam..er..on is worse than old Maggot the witch there will be one piece of good that will come out of this the Tories will have to keep there hands on there butts for a long time before they ever get back into power again, the L/Ds will be ANNIHILATED and will be a party of the past.